297 replies to this topic

[Darkfall]

Hi, guys,

Some progress on the wiring. Doing the wiring isn't so bad, once the documentation (ie: schematic) is done for reference. My schematic isn't 100% complete yet, but the main stuff is in there. Here's a link to a PDF of the schematic so far, if anyone's interested. Keep in mind that this is still a work in progress, so it might change or may have an "oops" in it somewhere that I haven't discovered yet.


The DIN rail is missing about 17 more terminal blocks for the IPAC to button / mercury switch connections yet, this the big empty spot on it. Everything will go to the DIN rail first, then out to the cabinet extremities from there. The DIN rail from left to right is the 5 CREEs (RGB for each one), CREE common positive, left and right speakers (not yet connected to anything), 8 solenoids, common positive for solenoids, flipper / magnasave button RGB, launch ball button LED, start button LED, common ground for all other button LEDs (favorites, exit/pause, extra ball, coin door coin slots), common positive for all button LEDs. On the far right, we have +12 volt, +5 volt, and power ground (which is different than IPAC/button ground, which will be totally isolated, of course).

[maxxsinner]

Love the wiring schematic Darkfall, it's a very professional touch and your wiring is looking as neat as a pin. What program did you use for your schematic?

[chriz]

love it, looks amazing!

[Darkfall]

Love the wiring schematic Darkfall, it's a very professional touch and your wiring is looking as neat as a pin. What program did you use for your schematic?

Thanks, maxx.

I used Microsoft Visio for it. I've been using Visio since before Microsoft bought them out. It works well for this kind of thing, automatically dealing with routing of connections and stuff (though I usually have to tweak the routing a bit, so it looks nicer).

[Darkfall]

Looks like the main electronics are done. Next is wiring up the CREEs and speaker stuff, ready to go into the topper that I haven't yet made *grin*.


IPAC all wired, the rest of the terminal blocks installed. Ready to put back on the cabinet and wire to the buttons, CREEs, coin door, and solenoids.


Close up of the wiring stuff.

[Darkfall]

I finally got around to doing the design work on the topper, where the speakers and flashers will live. This is what I have in mind:


Up close. Speakers on the left and right (covered with 1/4" thick speaker grills clad in speaker cloth), 5 flashers on top with lots of room for the heatsinks to live below them.


This is what it should look like on the machine. Looks ok, I think.

[mameman23]

Hmm not sure. Something about the side angles is nit working for me.

[mattdavis]

Hmm not sure. Something about the side angles is nit working for me.

I think the general shape, including side angles is great, but I think I see what you are saying (if I understand you right). It seems that if the topper is the exact width of the head, it will appear to be an extension of the head. I would use that shape, but come in on the sides some, to make the distinction between head and topper clear.

-Matt

[mameman23]

That may help the effect

[Darkfall]

I think the general shape, including side angles is great, but I think I see what you are saying (if I understand you right). It seems that if the topper is the exact width of the head, it will appear to be an extension of the head. I would use that shape, but come in on the sides some, to make the distinction between head and topper clear.

I think I put the angles on it subconsciously to give it some flair, but also to deliberately not make it part of the backbox, because I was worried that it'd make the backbox look too tall, and thus weird and disproportionate.

I do see what you're saying, though. I'll fiddle around with it, and see if I can figure something out that looks more "natural".

Thanks for the input, guys!

[Darkfall]

Hi, guys,

Did the wiring work on the CREE flashers for the backbox topper. I still need to add the wiring for the speakers, but the hard part is done, at least.


I had to use two molex connectors - the maximum pin count I could find locally was 12, and I needed 20 - so, two connectors it is! The green masking tape is on there just to protect the CREEs until they can be installed in the topper with the plastic domes and stuff.

Edited by Darkfall, 30 July 2011 - 08:51 AM.

[Darkfall]

Nothing new today, other than an updated 3D mockup image (legs and siderails, plus 4 more flasher domes to the topper for strobes).


No lockdown bar yet - still waiting for it to arrive, so I can measure it (it shipped late last week, so I should have it this coming week. Woo!)

Edited by Darkfall, 31 July 2011 - 04:09 AM.

[Darkfall]

Bah!

I made my first screw up today. I cut some holes for the little Logitech subwoofer to fit into the back of the cabinet. All was well, until my roommate points to the slots for the backbox display and says, "does the display actually come down that far? It's going to hit your subwoofer." Crap! Now I have holes, and no place to stuff the subwoofer. Or did I / do I?...

I figured out a solution. I "decased" the subwoofer (read: beat it with a chisel and hammer to get the parts out of the glued-together subwoofer box), and will build a custom enclosure for it in the back of the cabinet that won't be in the way. In the end, I think it'll look better, to be honest, and it puts the sub volume control in a friendlier place ultimately anyway.

I thought I was going to have to change my whole solution for sound and remake a few panels to get rid of the holes I no longer needed.

In the end, it was a happy "oops" that worked out for the best in the end...but it was a close call!

I'll grab some photos once the new subwoofer plan is completed.

Edited by Darkfall, 02 August 2011 - 11:56 AM.

[Darkfall]

I got myself an awesome sunburn today, working on the cabinet in the back yard. I mean, this sunburn is epic. It's just on the back of my neck, on the one side (right side), but I have no doubt that it's going to suck tomorrow. I shall slather it in AfterSun goop and hope for the best.

Anyway, I managed to build most of the topper today. It needs fans (ordered but not here yet), paint, speaker cloth, velcro (to stick the speaker grills on), and the domes and CREEs installed, but the wood part of the job is mostly done. It's got a bunch of wood filler on it right now to make it perfectly smooth. I'll grab a photo once I paint it and it's less ugly.

On another note, I discovered something interesting today...

The solenoids work great under normal circumstances - but they get hot if you engage them and leave them engaged (such as if you were to hold the flipper button). Within 10 seconds or so the coil gets pretty warm.

This wouldn't be a problem for the bumpers or extra game knocker, but for the flippers it could be.

There has been mention of exiting tables with things activated, such as solenoids or LEDs, and those items staying on upon exit - that could be a problem, too, if you exit a table in the middle of the bumpers being hammered, or the flipper being up.

I did some looking into a momentary circuit to see what I could find. Not a whole lot popped out at me that'd do the job.

I did find a solution that doesn't cost anything and is easy to implement. I need to test it, to make sure it'll work as planned, but I don't see why it wouldn't. In the LEDWiz configuration (the ini file), you can locate your flipper entries for each table (generally S46 and S48) and just add " 100" after them. This will add a 100ms timer to the solenoid command, which will kick the solenoid off right away (creating the "thunk" and avoiding heating up the solenoid). The only problem with this is that you get no force feedback when you release the flipper (which you'll notice if you hold the flipper for more than a 10th of a second). If only there was a way to tell it to refire the solenoid upon release (it's possible, but the ledcontrol.vbs script would have to be modified). Other than that, you'd have to use the normally closed terminal on the relay to capture the release and a timer circuit to kill the power to the solenoid after a few milliseconds - also doable, but a pain.

Alternatively, the programmable logic controller (PLC) industry use several relays with built in timers for various tasks. One version is called a "interval on" relay. It does exactly what we need - engages the solenoid immediately, and kills power to it after a set amount of time, even if the relay input is still active. Some are adjustable, some are fixed timers. If the input is deactivated, the relay disengages the solenoid right away and is ready for another input (after about 200ms, on the ones I saw). I have no idea what these cost, but I expect they're not cheap. Having some experience with the PLC industry (I used to be the System Administrator for a robotics company), I can tell you anything PLC related is expensive.

Anyway, the software solution avoids the heat problem and doesn't cost anything but a few minutes of time to edit the ledcontrol.ini file, which is good enough for now.

I have made mention of the issue in the LEDWiz configuration thread over on the Hyperspin forum, to see what kind of interest there might be in adding the ability to specify if you want a given solenoid to refire when the input is released. We'll see what kind of reaction there is. I can see where to make the needed changes in the code, but I'd rather avoid having to maintain my own special branch of the code, when I think it might be useful to others. I am willing to do the programming work and contribute it back, though, if that helps out - I mentioned that, too *grin*.

Anyway, that was my excitement for today.

Edited by Darkfall, 02 August 2011 - 11:54 AM.

[DedRok_V]

I think you only need the initial thwack of the solenoid anyway, to simulate the plunger hitting the coil stop.
There really isnt that much of a hit on flipper release anyway.
Nice concept though if it could be working.

The 100ms timing to match real life flip is good practice. but the sunburn isnt.

[Arcade4]

I think you only need the initial thwack of the solenoid anyway, to simulate the plunger hitting the coil stop.
There really isnt that much of a hit on flipper release anyway.
Nice concept though if it could be working.

The 100ms timing to match real life flip is good practice. but the sunburn isnt.

The level of detail on this project is amazing.
I just hope my build start games and flips. lol.

Edited by Arcade4, 02 August 2011 - 07:07 PM.

[maxxsinner]

Bah!
I made my first screw up today.

Great to hear it turned out OK for you Darkfall. Nothing worse than that feeling when you realise what just happened. Had the same with my flipper button holes.

One version is called a "interval on" relay. It does exactly what we need - engages the solenoid immediately, and kills power to it after a set amount of time, even if the relay input is still active. Some are adjustable, some are fixed timers. If the input is deactivated, the relay disengages the solenoid right away and is ready for another input (after about 200ms, on the ones I saw).

A pulse trigger off delay timer would do the same job as your refering. I believe that you can purchase low volatage low amperage ones pretty cheap.

I have no idea what these cost, but I expect they're not cheap. Having some experience with the PLC industry (I used to be the System Administrator for a robotics company), I can tell you anything PLC related is expensive.

Truer words have never been spoken. Magic 3 letters PLC. Another way of saying empty your pockets.

[carballom]

I think you only need the initial thwack of the solenoid anyway, to simulate the plunger hitting the coil stop.
There really isnt that much of a hit on flipper release anyway.
Nice concept though if it could be working.

The 100ms timing to match real life flip is good practice. but the sunburn isnt.

The level of detail on this project is amazing.
I just hope my build start games and flips. lol.

I feel the same way. When I'm done w/ mine I'll be happy if it works. I'm confident in setting up the screens and buttons/nudge tilt I'm just wary about the LED's/solenoids.

[Darkfall]

Great to hear it turned out OK for you Darkfall. Nothing worse than that feeling when you realise what just happened. Had the same with my flipper button holes.

I was verrrry careful when I measured my flipper button holes. I needed them low enough to stay out of the way of the display, but high enough that they weren't totally uncomfortable. I think I found an ok position, but there wasn't many options to select from. I kept putting my hand where the lockdown bar would be, then reaching down with my fingers, looking for a natural place for the button.

A pulse trigger off delay timer would do the same job as your refering. I believe that you can purchase low volatage low amperage ones pretty cheap.

Interesting. I'm going to do some research on that, and see what I can find. That, and heatsinks. Someone else was mentioning that they blew out a solenoid or two with the bumpers, because they're occasionally connected to ramps or animated features. One mention was a piece on Bad Cats that flips out at one point, and it blew out the solenoid it was connected to. Another was on Dracula (he figures - he wasn't sure), where the ramp moves and stays there, leaving the solenoid on. Adding the timer on the end of the solenoid command would solve that one, but the Bad Cats one is likely to need heatsinks or a different force feedback solution that can tolerate being on constantly (like the expensive contactors).

Truer words have never been spoken. Magic 3 letters PLC. Another way of saying empty your pockets.

We used to say that "PLC" stood for "Pay Large (sums of) Cash."

I think you only need the initial thwack of the solenoid anyway, to simulate the plunger hitting the coil stop.
There really isnt that much of a hit on flipper release anyway.
Nice concept though if it could be working.

The 100ms timing to match real life flip is good practice. but the sunburn isnt.

You may be right. It has been some time since I've played a real machine. Maybe the second solenoid hit on release isn't that critical - though it would be kind of cool *grin*.

I feel the same way. When I'm done w/ mine I'll be happy if it works. I'm confident in setting up the screens and buttons/nudge tilt I'm just wary about the LED's/solenoids.

The LEDWiz ain't so complex - especially for LEDs. It's all the other stuff we connect to them (solenoids, etc.) that complicates things. Many of those things require relays to avoid overloading the LEDWiz's outputs.

For LEDs, though, it's pretty simple - especially if your LEDs already have resisters in them (GroovyGameGear's buttons do, including their RGBDrive flipper buttons. The CREE's generally don't have resisters, so you must add them or you'll blow up the LEDs, which sucks - they're expensive parts for their size!)

We're all here to help when you get to that stuff.

[DedRok_V]

Great to hear it turned out OK for you Darkfall. Nothing worse than that feeling when you realise what just happened. Had the same with my flipper button holes.

I was verrrry careful when I measured my flipper button holes. I needed them low enough to stay out of the way of the display, but high enough that they weren't totally uncomfortable. I think I found an ok position, but there wasn't many options to select from. I kept putting my hand where the lockdown bar would be, then reaching down with my fingers, looking for a natural place for the button.

Havent cut mine in yet , but i found marking the radius from the corner and putting the button somewhere on that radius makes it more comfortable as opposed to just dropping the hole a bit.