114 replies to this topic

[moogster66]

but I think he's pretty much either burnt out or has just lost interest in the project.

Then he should let FP go open source, so others can carry the torch.

[clamptruck10]

Either way.. I think FP has run its course on my cabinet. I don't want to change the date back on my PC, so it looks like I will say goodbye to FP.
...

Excuse me, Sir, but why it's so important for you to have the right date in your cabinet?
You can write a batch in order to set the date automaticaly at the start of the system.

I guess it is really not that big of a deal to change my date back.

Myy point, is that it bothers me that Chris removed one of the great hidden features of FP (angle and lighting mod).

Maybe I am taking it personally because I discovered it, and he deleted it from the new version.

In reality, I guess that I am most upset because I was really hoping for some communication from Chris, and possibly an update to fix the physics.

(I didn't get what I wanted, and now I am pouting.)

well said and completely understandable, your find in reg was a straight forward kick ass find that i experimented with extensively and worked very well

[Greywolf]

Wow, i ALMOST said "I'm done."

Why?

Because in ArcadeRenderMode:
1) lighting is uncontrollable, but we knew that.
2) LoadExternalScript faulted out, but then started working again (Had regedit open, that was probably the issue).

#2 was of paramount importance to me -- had that stopped working, that would have been it.

I don't understand why the lighting isn't controllable any more, nor why he removed that feature. I'd like it a whole lot if it were possible to completely shut off the light in the game room, but then, the lighting engine doesn't do true shadows, either.

I think there's just a lot there that he doesn't feel is worth the time to create or implement, which is a pity, but the exe is now non-expiring, so I'm going to continue to take advantage of it.

For those of you who are really hung up on the lighting, go get Hex Editor Neo and read the forum posts.

Edited by Greywolf, 31 December 2010 - 09:59 PM.

[bigraceusa]

Well when I think about the last hours this day and year I go back with mind to this:

-have many weeks of fun with play of my Future Pinball tables - thanks to all the great builders
-only wait for a update to change the date
-now we have the update, it takes me the lightning away - yes there are worlds (lightning, angle) with and without that:
After change that in the registry Bally Safari looks now that:

By kdld3500 at 2010-05-14

-Next year I will forget this update, don´t wait for a new one.

Why? Life is to short, let us have fun with playing pinball.
One part of users with VP, one part of users with FP, one part of users with both - what we all have is PINBALL.

Wish you all a good new year

[PinballNerd]

Let me preface the following question/comment by saying job well done to those who create the tools and to those who use the tools to create an outstanding virtual pinball experience. As a relative newb to the virtual pinball arena, I amazed what this group has accomplished. Again job well done.

Can anyone tell me why a table author would choose to develop a table in Future Pinball opposed to Visual Pinball? I primarily use VP in my cabinet because the tables add a "realism" that just isn't present in FP. The tables in FP are very well done and easy to setup but the gameplay is quite artificial. I am quite interested in moving from a Leech to a Contributor, unfortunately, not sure which tool is best to begin with (FP or VP).

[moogster66]

Let me preface the following question/comment by saying job well done to those who create the tools and to those who use the tools to create an outstanding virtual pinball experience. As a relative newb to the virtual pinball arena, I amazed what this group has accomplished. Again job well done.

Can anyone tell me why a table author would choose to develop a table in Future Pinball opposed to Visual Pinball? I primarily use VP in my cabinet because the tables add a "realism" that just isn't present in FP. The tables in FP are very well done and easy to setup but the gameplay is quite artificial. I am quite interested in moving from a Leech to a Contributor, unfortunately, not sure which tool is best to begin with (FP or VP).

FP is much easier to start with. The tools in the editor are easier to understand. You should start with FP, then move on to VP.

[Greywolf]

but I think he's pretty much either burnt out or has just lost interest in the project.

Then he should let FP go open source, so others can carry the torch.

You'd get no argument from me.

[anthias]

My guess would be the concern he had with the registry edits relates to future changes (like physics changes) that these edits would be screwing with - I wouldn't want them there if I were him - I see too much potential for issues down the track with registry hacks breaking tables or breaking the engine. Common sense would dictate these MUST go if the engine was facing anything in the way of major changes AT ALL.

Some are talking about "controlling"and stuff that is nearing character defamation, and that is sad, and it is uncalled for. These kind of removals are common across all software - from the small players to the big names. The registry bits were never documented for a reason, and have been removed for the same reason. That reason does not need to be shared to be valid. Registry hacks are dangerous to system stability in nub hands. Possibly more dangerous to FP game stability in a future release. Lighting is directly related to physics in some ways, and I thought it was obvious before anything was said that these edits of the registry would be gone before long. Clearly they were implemented at the same time as arcade render mode was added, and were never intended to become permanent fixtures in the program. If they were, arcade mode would have had its own settings dialogue - and yet may get one in future. I know from experience in my other project that fiddled lighting or other such settings can dramatically effect engine performance, and you cant have one setting that is perfect on every machine so you have to pick the best all rounder.

[lupine]

So, will the new non-expiring download of FP go up on VPF?

[destruk]

My guess would be the concern he had with the registry edits relates to future changes (like physics changes) that these edits would be screwing with - I wouldn't want them there if I were him - I see too much potential for issues down the track with registry hacks breaking tables or breaking the engine. Common sense would dictate these MUST go if the engine was facing anything in the way of major changes AT ALL.

Some are talking about "controlling"and stuff that is nearing character defamation, and that is sad, and it is uncalled for. These kind of removals are common across all software - from the small players to the big names. The registry bits were never documented for a reason, and have been removed for the same reason. That reason does not need to be shared to be valid. Registry hacks are dangerous to system stability in nub hands. Possibly more dangerous to FP game stability in a future release. Lighting is directly related to physics in some ways, and I thought it was obvious before anything was said that these edits of the registry would be gone before long. Clearly they were implemented at the same time as arcade render mode was added, and were never intended to become permanent fixtures in the program. If they were, arcade mode would have had its own settings dialogue - and yet may get one in future. I know from experience in my other project that fiddled lighting or other such settings can dramatically effect engine performance, and you cant have one setting that is perfect on every machine so you have to pick the best all rounder.

Regardless, if the registry edits shouldn't have been there to begin with, they should have only been included in a debug build - not included for the public to mess with from the beginning - that would have easily avoided the perception that they were taken away. Hindsight is 20/20 - maybe he can learn something from this in a future project. And what other reasoning do you have to offer besides controlling? The entire program is about control - no movement of the ball, no settings except for the ones that are explicitly given, no external controls, undocumented registry hacks, it goes on and on, even so far as keeping the source code private for the reason of having an iron fist clasped closed control freak. And if you speak bad about him, he bans you and punishes all the users for it too. How is that not control? How do you see it? How do you sleep?

[lettuce]

Hey guys I just updated my Nintendo to a Super Duper Nintendo but now it's got Atari graphics......


Way to go FP!!! Giving and Taking away at the same time!

True that!!!

[lettuce]

I was hoping for at least a better physics engine, but I think he's pretty much either burnt out or has just lost interest in the project.

If this is indeed the case and doesnt wish to build upon or update the software anymore then please for the love of god release the source code, so people who want the project to live on can help out with it. We all know the 4 things we wanted for this update:

Expiry Date Removed
ROM Support
Upgraded Physics
Limit of Polygon Count Removed

What we got was only 1 of these features and another one taken away, so whats been gained really??

Seriously the tables that have started to be made over at GoPinall are simply mind blowing and wouldnt thought possible this time last year, and its just a shame that this update wasnt something special to help tables be even more

Edited by lettuce, 01 January 2011 - 11:59 AM.

[settingsons]

I think we need to remember that Black is one person and not a software giant employing 100s of people. Also everyone is different in the way they react to criticism, and I have known a lot of programmers over the years who can take a lot of things personally especially something negative on what they have authored. If you criticise an artists painting they would not like it, and if you tell them to change something in their "work of art" like 'add a cloud here' or 'a tree there' then they surely will not like it. I would imagine that getting lots of criticism in a place like a forum could be quite overwhelming and some people might get a feeling of being bullied. We all know that there are also some individuals in forums that rub people up the wrong way, and I would expect that when he pulled the plug on the forum it was probably because he thought he could take it no more. I think we should try and stick with what we got and see how things go going forward. I am not trying to defend Black, but are trying to see his side of the story. He is obviously a very talented individual who had/has a passion for pinball and hopefully one day in the future we may be able to see some more of his art.

[destruk]

Limit of Polygon Count Removed

What we got was only 1 of these features and another one taken away, so whats been gained really??

What's worse is the polygon limit is completely arbitrary. I've seen FP without that limitation and it doesn't slow down tables at all with 4,000 objects in the table layout. To limit it to 800 (originally) or 4000 is simply another means of controlling what you do with the program.

[Dizzle]

I've been reading a lot of reaction on both this forum and gopinball. Personally, I think the main problem is that expectations were just to high for this update. And those expectations are a lot for one guy to shoulder. I'd probably be burned out too with all of the wants from users out there. I never expected to see updated physics or ROM support -- I think anyone who thought they were going to see that with an update were just kidding themselves. FP is what FP is. As far as features getting removed, yeah, it definitely seems like a control thing. But let's face it, we're at Black's mercy here. I guess we can learn to deal with it or move on to something different as I don't see this ever going open source either.

I'll still get more use and enjoyment out of FP (and VP) than I can ever hope to get out of the other software I pay ridiculous amounts of money for.

[Rawd]

I've been reading a lot of reaction on both this forum and gopinball. Personally, I think the main problem is that expectations were just to high for this update. And those expectations are a lot for one guy to shoulder. I'd probably be burned out too with all of the wants from users out there. I never expected to see updated physics or ROM support -- I think anyone who thought they were going to see that with an update were just kidding themselves. FP is what FP is. As far as features getting removed, yeah, it definitely seems like a control thing. But let's face it, we're at Black's mercy here. I guess we can learn to deal with it or move on to something different as I don't see this ever going open source either.

I'll still get more use and enjoyment out of FP (and VP) than I can ever hope to get out of the other software I pay ridiculous amounts of money for.

I think that most people were expecting nothing. Some were hoping for an expiry date update. I really don't think anyone was expecting losing the lighting control.

[Itchigo]

Would I be wrong in thinking this whole thing is sour grapes for not being able to market it because vp was here first and was widely used? I haven't been here that long but from looking at different things I've read... (Sorry if I'm wrong).

[tiltjlp]

Destruk is right about Black being a control freak. That's the reason FP came about in the first place. Black was honest enough to admit that he made FP to fulfill HIS vision of what computer pinball should be. So anyone dreaming of ROM support might as well keep dreaming, because it'll never happen. In the beginning there was even going to be a flipperless template, which I had supplied. But I peeved Black off by asking for a few other flipperless style features, and that was dropped. So it's actually not so much about control as it is about one man's idea of what computer pinball should be. And since he wrote the program, which will never be open source, he gets to call all the shots. Black's probably a very nice fellow, just very stubborn.

Edited by tiltjlp, 01 January 2011 - 06:27 PM.

[destruk]

For those interested, the new exe removed the backglass rotation registry setting too. Another undocumented feature.

[Rawd]

For those interested, the new exe removed the backglass rotation registry setting too. Another undocumented feature.

Interesting.. What about the option to force the resolution of either monitor with the registry? (something that I used)