1103 replies to this topic

[Oscilated]

All,  *Thank you* in advance for any help you may provide.

 

 

*** THE SETUP

 

I have built 2 sets of a three board PinScape setup.  All six boards were purchased straight from MJR.  I used MJRs shopping list to procure all the electronics from Mouser, and purchased the large through-hole IC from eBay.

 

When I finally finished soldering everything, I then quickly created a "rough draft" feedback board complete with 6 Williams pop bumper assemblies (24V), two Stern slingshot assemblies (50V), and two Stern flipper assemblies (50V).  Oh, and a knocker.  To make things easier on myself, I am using independent 24V and 48V MeanWell power supplies in addition to a typical PC ATX power supply.  All grounds are bonded and I believe everything is wired correctly.

 

 

*** THE PROBLEM

 

With all the output devices connected to the Chime board, I get nothing.  However, when I move the main output connector to the Power board, all the coils/solenoids immediately fire and hold when power is applied to the power supplies. For what it's worth, the flipper and magna save buttons work as expected. I believe the knocker is also working as expected.

 

I don't even know where to begin to troubleshoot this issue.  A buddy of mine is coming over later today to help, though neither he nor I are electronics gurus.  The current plan is to have him piece by piece double-check ONE of the circuits on a chime board.  And then make sure that module is (visually) properly replicated to the other modules on that chime board.  But that's as far of a plan as we've developed.  Is there a better way?

 

 

*** ADVANTAGES THAT COULD HELP

 

I own a fantastic Fluke multimeter and can follow instructions.  I have a competent solder workstation and can solder good enough (though I an terrible at desoldering).  And I thought I double-checked the components while building the boards.

 

 

Thank you again oh great forum for any help you are able to provide.

 

-Andrew

Edited by Oscilated, 21 September 2019 - 01:36 PM.

[Oscilated]

All,

Nevermind. My friend was relatively quick to notice that the ribbon cables that interconnect the boards were not connected correctly. I'm embarrassed to admit I missed such a simple issue. But also glad that the fix was so easy.

So for anyone else in the future, if the ribbon cable connectors are accidentally rotated, weirdness results.

Hopefully I don't need additional assistance, but my project is not yet complete. So until then, thank you to anyone that contemplated my issue. And good luck to everyone and their setups!

-Andrew

[SteveB69]

Hi

I'm looking into Pinscape primarily for my plunger as I've heard good things about it compared to others.

 

I've looked all over the Pinscape pages but can't find anywhere to buy the actual hardware needed. I'm UK based, can anyone give me buying links.

 

Also, how hard is it to set up & configure ie is it a case of following simple instructions or does it need lot's of soldering, configuring etc?

[SteveB69]

Can I ask another question please. Re your flasher panels I'm a bit confused as to what i need to follow your guide.

 

An ebay search for LGB Flasher isn't bringing up what I can see in your pictures, also what resistors do I need for them & how many for 5 lights?

 

Also is Ledwhizz still the best board to use to wire this stuff up or has something superseeded it?

[mjr]

I'm looking into Pinscape primarily for my plunger as I've heard good things about it compared to others.

 

I've looked all over the Pinscape pages but can't find anywhere to buy the actual hardware needed. I'm UK based, can anyone give me buying links.

 

Also, how hard is it to set up & configure ie is it a case of following simple instructions or does it need lot's of soldering, configuring etc?

 

Here's where you can read about the plunger options.  If you want to keep it simpler, the potentiometer option is the way to go.

 

Potentiometer plunger:  http://mjrnet.org/pi...ide.php?sid=pot

 

AEDR08300 quadrature plunger:   http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=aedr8300

 

 

Can I ask another question please. Re your flasher panels I'm a bit confused as to what i need to follow your guide.

 

An ebay search for LGB Flasher isn't bringing up what I can see in your pictures, also what resistors do I need for them & how many for 5 lights?

 

Also is Ledwhizz still the best board to use to wire this stuff up or has something superseeded it?

 

Flashers:  http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=flashers

 

LED resistors:  http://mjrnet.org/pi...id=ledResistors

 

Comparison of I/O controllers:  http://mjrnet.org/pi...d=ioControllers

[MikePinball]

An ebay search for LGB Flasher isn't bringing up what I can see in your pictures, also what resistors do I need for them & how many for 5 lights?

 

Also is Ledwhizz still the best board to use to wire this stuff up or has something superseeded it?

There are several questions in your posts. Let me try to help with them.

 

I would say that Pinscape has largely superceded LEZWIZ which needed a lot of additional hardware because of its 500mA current limitation. I suggest you read my "Why Pinscape" thread to get more information.

 

You can make your own set of Pinscape boards but it is a lot of work to gather all of the parts and solder them. And people have found problems due to mistakes in their work. If you have experience of doing something like this before then go ahead. A better solution is to buy a ready built Pinscape boards that has been fully tested. Hence my Pinscape All-in-One board. I would read the linked thread to get a good picture of what it does and what other people think. Here is a quote from MJR, the originator of Pinscape: "But I think "fully assembled" is actually a pretty big feature for a lot of people.  It's obviously appealing to anyone who's not all that comfortable with DIY electronics, but even a lot of DIYers might like the idea of saving the time required to do all the parts sourcing, soldering, and troubleshooting of a scratch build."

 

You will see at the end of the thread that I have more boards on order which will be ready at the end of October. I would ship first class airmail to the UK to keep down costs. After receiving the board and wiring it up to your buttons, LEDs, and other outputs like solenoids you will need to configure 2 things:

1. Pinscape board itself to tell it where everything is i.e. button connected to input 3 is "right shift". There are defaults which could be used to guide your wiring
2. DOF controller using the DOF config tool. I recommend using MJR's DOF code as it has incorporated all of the latest fixes.

 

Lastly here is a page from MJR's Pinscape Buld Guide that describes RGB flashers, calculating the resistor to use etc.

[SteveB69]

Thanks for the answers.

Mike Pinball, is the pinscape pages your stuff? It's really bloody useful and I'm slowly reading it all.

Can I place a pre-order for your Pinscape all in one board?

 

For now I'm going to make a start on my flasher board which won't take up too much space.

 

 

5 x 3W RGB Chip https://www.ebay.co....aRf9UtM9P634dDQ .

 

Now I'm following the guide here, http://mjrnet.org/pi...id=ledResistors regarding the resistors, it's incredibly well written, and completly over my head!!!

 

On the ebay page descibing the lights the tech details are

"3W/3W with PCB

Current  

260-280mA

Voltage

3.2-3.4V

2.2-2.4V

Red:2.0-2.2v

Green:3.2-3.4v

Blue:3.2-3.4v

Lumen

240-260Lm             

50-60Lm

220-240Lm

                90-100Lm             90-100Lm

                50-60Lm               Red:60-80LM

Green:140-160LM

Blue:50-60LM

View Angle

140 Degree

CRI    

>80"

 

I'm not understanding how to use the resistance calculator? I can't see anything that refers to forward voltage.

What sort of resistors should I buy to go with these. I believe I need one resistor per light, so 15 resistors.

 

To cover the LEDs Planning to buy 5 of these.

https://www.pinballl...screw-tabs.html

I'm thinking as my LEDs are going to be various colours I should go for white / clear dome covers. Does anyone in the UK sell these, can't find anyone?

MJR - Thanks for replying, re your plunger suggestions, they both look to me like I need to make / assemble parts.

 

 

Here's where you can read about the plunger options.  If you want to keep it simpler, the potentiometer option is the way to go.

 

Potentiometer plunger:  http://mjrnet.org/pi...ide.php?sid=pot

 

AEDR08300 quadrature plunger:   http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=aedr8300

 

I'd really like complete set up, so the bit that goes round the plunger pull, the leads & then to connect either via USB or via the Pinscape board?

[MikePinball]

No - the Pinball Guide pages were written by MJR. Pinscape was designed by MJR as well. My Pinscape All-in-One provides a cost-effective implementation of the Pinscape design. Full credit to MJR for all of this.

 

The forward voltage is right there in your append. Red is 2-2.2V, blue and green is 3.2-3.4V. Let's take an average and call it 2.1V and 3.3V. Assuming you want the maximum brightness then the current of the RGB LED is 270mA (again taking the average). BTW this is going to be bright.

 

I recommend using 5V for the LEDs. Plugging these values into the calculator on the MJR's resistor calculation page shows the following results (red on left, blue/green on right):

 

 

For simplicity and to be a little cheaper, you could make both resistors 1W and still be just within the limits.  You will need 5 of the 12 Ohm resistors for the red input to LED, and 10 of 6.8 Ohm resistors for the green/blue input to the LED. Now you need to go to your friendly electronics store such as Farnell that is in the UK.

 

6.8 Ohm here: https://uk.farnell.c...xide/dp/1961783

12 Ohm here: https://uk.farnell.c...xide/dp/1738561

 

Alternatively you could go to eBay but it might not be much cheaper once you include shipping. The advantage of eBay is you will get more than you need which might help if you mess something up.

 

 

Here's where you can read about the plunger options.  If you want to keep it simpler, the potentiometer option is the way to go.

 

Potentiometer plunger:  http://mjrnet.org/pi...ide.php?sid=pot

 

AEDR08300 quadrature plunger:   http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=aedr8300

 

I'd really like complete set up, so the bit that goes round the plunger pull, the leads & then to connect either via USB or via the Pinscape board?

 

You need something between the potentiometer and the PC to read the value and convert it into the right input. While there are other commercial options, you may as well use the Pinscape board as it will be provide this and everything else you need.

 

I have a spare set of the plunger plastic parts (see this append) and could also get you a potentiometer to match. If you want everything nicely wired, I could do that too. It just depends on DIY versus paying someone. Message me offline and I'm sure we could come to some agreement.

[SteveB69]

For simplicity and to be a little cheaper, you could make both resistors 1W and still be just within the limits.  You will need 5 of the 12 Ohm resistors for the red input to LED, and 10 of 6.8 Ohm resistors for the green/blue input to the LED. Now you need to go to your friendly electronics store such as Farnell that is in the UK.

 

6.8 Ohm here: https://uk.farnell.c...xide/dp/1961783

12 Ohm here: https://uk.farnell.c...xide/dp/1738561

 

 

Really appreciate that Mike, one thing, you say if I go for the 1w resistors I'll be just within the limits so makes me think shouldn't I go for a 2w resistor to play safe?

So should I go for these https://uk.farnell.c...?st=2w resistor instead, or these https://uk.farnell.c...?st=2w resistor ?

[MikePinball]

Really appreciate that Mike, one thing, you say if I go for the 1w resistors I'll be just within the limits so makes me think shouldn't I go for a 2w resistor to play safe?

So should I go for these https://uk.farnell.c...?st=2w resistor instead, or these https://uk.farnell.c...?st=2w resistor ?

The second resistor you quote is 56K meaning 56,000 Ohms. This is not the correct value and will result in an LED too dim to even see. The values are in the tens at most.

 

If you use the 10 ohm resistor for both red and blue, you will overdrive the red led and possibly burn it out and underdrive the green and bluw so they will look relatively dimmer. It means for example white will not look white and will have a pinkish/light red tint (or it will be cyan because you burnt out the red LED )

 

Yes in retrospect, manufacturing tolerances on the LED and/or resistor could throw things off and a 2W would give you a better margin. Here is the Farnell 2W 12 ohm resistor:

https://uk.farnell.c...03776?st=12R 2W

[mjr]

Just FYI on those resistor power ratings - if you're taking numbers from my calculator, it's already building in a generous safety margin on the wattage, so you really don't have to add yet another safety margin of your own.  Check the "raw results" to see what I mean.  You can always add in even more, but you'll just end up with physically larger parts than you really need.  And for the flasher lights, you're never going to run them at 100% power anyway, so even my first level of safety margin is pretty overkill-ish.

[SteveB69]

Thanks again.

 

So 5 of the 2W 12ohm resistors https://uk.farnell.c...03776?st=12R 2W

But  re the other 2W resistor I can only find this https://uk.farnell.c...film/dp/2396007 but from what you said, this ones a 200kohm (what's the k?) so this would run them too dimly?

MJR - Thanks, I was posting before I read what you said.

[MikePinball]

 

So 5 of the 2W 12ohm resistors https://uk.farnell.c...03776?st=12R 2W

But  re the other 2W resistor I can only find this https://uk.farnell.c...film/dp/2396007 but from what you said, this ones a 200kohm (what's the k?) so this would run them too dimly?

I don't know how you are looking up parts on the Farnell website but the 200K part is not correct. "K" means 1000 so 200K is 200,000 Ohms.

 

Here is what to order:

• 10 of these 6.8 Ohm 1W resistors: https://uk.farnell.c...xide/dp/1961783
• 5 of these 12 Ohm 2W resistors:https://uk.farnell.c...03776?st=12R 2W

[SteveB69]

Thanks, ordered, along with 6pin RGB Cob Led light, went for the 6 pin as wasn't really sure...

More head scratching when it all arrives!

 

Right, just off to see if I can find the plastic domes anywhere in the UK.

[nevess]

What is better to power the expansion boards (5v and 12v, 2nd psu), an ATX power supply or individual power supplies to each voltage?

[mjr]

What is better to power the expansion boards (5v and 12v, 2nd psu), an ATX power supply or individual power supplies to each voltage?

 

Either one will work, but I like the ATX supplies - they're cheap for the amount of power, and they're fairly compact (compared with two separate supplies).

[nevess]

 

What is better to power the expansion boards (5v and 12v, 2nd psu), an ATX power supply or individual power supplies to each voltage?

 

Either one will work, but I like the ATX supplies - they're cheap for the amount of power, and they're fairly compact (compared with two separate supplies).

 

Can this power supply, for the expansion boards, be shared with the toys? What power is necessary for the expansion boards?

[nevess]

 

 

What is better to power the expansion boards (5v and 12v, 2nd psu), an ATX power supply or individual power supplies to each voltage?

 

Either one will work, but I like the ATX supplies - they're cheap for the amount of power, and they're fairly compact (compared with two separate supplies).

 

Can this power supply, for the expansion boards, be shared with the toys? What power is necessary for the expansion boards?

 

No pointers regarding my question?

[mjr]

Can this power supply, for the expansion boards, be shared with the toys? What power is necessary for the expansion boards?

 

Can it be shared: yes, and in fact that's really the whole point.  The "PSU2" connection is specifically for the power supply that you're using for feedback devices.

 

What power is necessary:  I assume you mean "how many Watts"?  As far as the boards themselves are concerned, very little, probably less than 1W.  Just buy according to what you need for the feedback devices.

[MikePinball]

A couple more comments (which may or may not be obvious):

1. If you want toys to run with 24V you are going to need a separate supply that outputs 24V. You could buy a 12V to 24V step up boost converter but decent ones with the current you might need are just as expensive as a separate power supply. Do not ever ever connect to 12V power supplies in series like a battery.
2. You will need some kind of computer power supply breakout board that both gives you access to the power via screw connectors and simulates what a computer would do to activate the power. I do not recommend doing this yourself - there are too many dangerous things that could go wrong. Here is a picture of an example breakout that includes fuses: