1388 replies to this topic

[Slydog43]

This used to be one of my favorite threads to read, as it was so exciting following the progress. I also am hoping for some new news. Please.

[numiah]

I'm curious where this is going....

[Themer]

@Lynny: Do you know of a good alternative engine which is completely open source? I don't expect that there will be such an engine. Furthermore, for as far as I know, we only need the licensed version for the interaction with the DLL. This would mean that, when Louizou chooses to release the project as open source, other people can still work on the application without the DLL interaction. After their work is completed they can send the updates to Louizou who's able to compile it including the interaction with the DLL file. Also, VP needs Microsoft Visual Studio to be compiled, yet there are still people working on that project.

[johnparker007]

@Lynny: Do you know of a good alternative engine which is completely open source? I don't expect that there will be such an engine. Furthermore, for as far as I know, we only need the licensed version for the interaction with the DLL. This would mean that, when Louizou chooses to release the project as open source, other people can still work on the application without the DLL interaction. After their work is completed they can send the updates to Louizou who's able to compile it including the interaction with the DLL file. Also, VP needs Microsoft Visual Studio to be compiled, yet there are still people working on that project.

That's the thing, if time were no object (or we could get paid for working on "VP++" or whatever the new thing would be) starting from scratch would be the way to go. Unfortunately, that requires sooooooo many hours to be put in by the few developers who know enough to look at coding something like this, you'd maybe have something playable by 2015!

One of the problems (for me) is that, as I can program to some extent, and could write a lot of the components of the engine (though my 3D maths is not outstanding or anything), I program iOS games as my day job, and that also requires quite a bit of overtime as it is (unpaid, just to get things 'right' even if it goes over schedule). So at the end of the working day, I know it sounds selfish, but the last thing I'd want to do is get home, to a colossal programming project on a par with writing a web browser from scratch! Think about it, to do a full rewrite, what we are looking for is:

-true OpenGL (ie. not billboard sprites unless absolutely necessary due to lack of model designer/resources! Don't get me wrong - the way the table authors implement with the current limitations is amazing, plus the work that has been done on VP to support angle independent, but in a rewrite, we'd wanna handle things the way FP does, 3D models all the way etc... so even stuff like, say the castle on JP's MM - that'd be a lit 3D model, not a image mapped onto a quad)
-true lighting? (for a ground-up rewrite, it would probably be possible to support some lighting to work kinda dynamically, perhaps baked in by the engine at init, or done with shaders, that'd do the cool stuff like when the light shines through as drop targets get knocked down etc...)
-"nice" editor (people seem to agree that the FP editor is 'nicer' that the VP one, plus it's all real 3D - I haven't authored any tables so again I'm guessing a little from what I've read here)
-physics engine (ok we can grab most of that from VP912+ so that's not so bad, plus obviously integrate the momentum stuff that JF has been working on)
-collisions on a model surface basis for the above engine (though might want to do 'ideal' surfaces somehow, much higher poly than the rendered model, so a pop bumper would be 'truly' round, but the render mesh would be lower poly)
-support the 'layback' perspective system (out of my knowledge area, I'm not a 3D maths guy) as it's highly beneficial to 16:9 FS renderings viewed from the playing angle
-full vPinMAME integration (of course!)
-full "B2S" style level of backglass support - so think nice rotating score reels for the EMs, and spinning spider on Elvira, and nice ROM controlled bulb lighting

And that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's plenty I've missed out there... so Unity was presumably Louizou's choice as it took care of a lot of the above for 'free' - in that he wrote a converter to import tables made in full 3D from the FP editor, physics/collisons taken care of, graphics taken care of...

A ground up rewrite, even using open-source bits and bobs, is a massive task, and anyone who can code that well is often a wage slave like me churning out code for their whole working week already, so it's not too inviting a proposition to carry on with something of this scale after work!

Maybe one day in the future, if the VP scene gets REALLY big (so there'd be a way to raise say £25-30k GBP for a year's salary), someone could set up a kickstarter donation drive or something, and somehow do it as a full-time freelance job for the community, opensource all the way, with milestones...

Edited by johnparker007, 02 August 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[sleepy]

The Unity license, when obtained.
Will it be available to anyone who can do the work, or is it secured for just one person?
If the latter, then Can the license be left open until assignment?

Can the license be bought for an organization?

[Themer]

The license is for one person only and will only be paid for when the implementation of the ROM support comes in play. Until then, thus during the development of the simulator itself, the money stays in the hands of Destruk (VP Forums). The last point you mention is an interesting topic which should be looked into in my opinion before the license is actually bought. There, however, are some risks in that we must be able to trust the people who are given a license. Yet again, the paid version is only required for the interaction with the ROM supporting DLL. The basis of the simulator will be made using the free version after all. Furthermore this topic is only interesting when Louizou completes the project and is willing to release the project as open source.

[settingsons]

After receiving a software program license from our donations, one would think after a month and a half there could be two minutes sacrificed to send a quick text saying something along the lines of:

‘Things are going well’, or
‘Things aren’t going well’, or
‘It’s Holiday and I’m in Cannes’, or even
‘Thanks for the software I’m now a millionaire with the new program I wrote with it, don’t call me I’ll call you’.

Anything.

Whoa, whoa, whoa..Pinballjohn..thats blasphemy!! You'll get run out of town on a rail faster than you can say "louizou"!
Believe me, I know. I'm just trying to save you the agony...

Great post though, seriously...just glad you said it...so I didn't have to say it again.

I think he's hard at work on his ghostbuster pack, and he's forgotten all about us poor slobs...just my humble opinion...


Peace,
Lynny

For as long as we don't retreive any information on the matter that still holds.

This is a good thing as Unity just recently started a beta for version 4.
If we had bought the license earlier, then we would have been stuck with the 3.x.x releases for the code - and version 4.x.x will have many more features available.

http://unity3d.com/unity/4/faq


"Does buying Unity 4.0 entitle me to all 4.x releases?
Yes, you will receive for free the updates in the 4.x release cycle"


So we'd still get the most 'bang for the buck' by waiting until 4.x.x is officially released before handing over money so we get the entire upgrade cycle for the version we license.

I do hope that Louizou is still working on it. Maybe he'll post something.

That is true, and it is a good thing to wait for the newer version, but it also points out why an open source 3D engine would have been a far better choice, maybe not as polished as Unity, but as it sits now...every time Unity releases a new version of the software, if the community wants to keep up to date, we need a new $1500 license so that someone can compile the new versions....wow.

I hope someone takes off on a project like this and keeps everything open source. That license sounds like a great big boat anchor around all our necks...for the life of the software..yuck..

It would be nice to hear something...how his ghostbuster jetpack is coming along..how is pet is doing, something...


Peace,
Lynny

Lynny - let's remind ourselves that the most likely reason he doesn't give updates anymore is quite simple - you. The more you visit the thread, the more likely there won't be any further updates. To use your own line 'Had to be said - it's what many of us are thinking'.

....and quiet.

[rob046]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

[Syco54645]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

i thought that he said he would be away for most of the summer. give it time. im sure he will come back. if nothing else i am hopeful that he will at least release the source so someone can pick up where he left off.

[Lynny]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

Here Here!!

And maybe I'm a little rougher (around the edges) with him than others, but I want to know early on if he's gonna stick with us, or take flight and leave us all disappointed. If he's going to bail on us, I'd rather know sooner than later. I said it earlier on...not too much to ask for just a few words of progress or even the lack thereof....


Peace,
Lynny

@Lynny: Do you know of a good alternative engine which is completely open source? I don't expect that there will be such an engine. Furthermore, for as far as I know, we only need the licensed version for the interaction with the DLL. This would mean that, when Louizou chooses to release the project as open source, other people can still work on the application without the DLL interaction. After their work is completed they can send the updates to Louizou who's able to compile it including the interaction with the DLL file. Also, VP needs Microsoft Visual Studio to be compiled, yet there are still people working on that project.

There are open source 3D engines out there. I don't have all the specifics in front of me, as I haven't researched them in awhile, but they do exist. Myself, I wouldn't even mind if my pinball simulator "matured" with my 3D engine, and open source allows just that..the 3D engine can evolve, mature, get better...look at what we have evolved with, in terms of VP....and what we have today as a result. A beautiful pinball experience.

Regardless of what transpires...what projects fly...which ones crash and burn...I'll be playing pinball....with whatever is available to allow me to do so.


Flippers on, dude!


Peace,
Lynny

[settingsons]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

Every respect Rob but there is a lot more to it than that. Lynny really can't resist using any opportunity to bring up the subject of 'lack of updates' or how the project must be opensource. His comments come over as very pushy. Sarcastic references about Lou's Ghostbuster gun, etc just become tiresome. I have ignored them for some weeks now, and I am just saying what others think. It may be true that this is not the reason- who knows- everyone us different. However in his absence Lynny should give the guy a break and should stop saying he 'owes us' an update. Why does he? He doesn't work for us.

[Lynny]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

Every respect Rob but there is a lot more to it than that. Lynny really can't resist using any opportunity to bring up the subject of 'lack of updates' or how the project must be opensource. His comments come over as very pushy. Sarcastic references about Lou's Ghostbuster gun, etc just become tiresome. I have ignored them for some weeks now, and I am just saying what others think. It may be true that this is not the reason- who knows- everyone us different. However in his absence Lynny should give the guy a break and should stop saying he 'owes us' an update. Why does he? He doesn't work for us.

Now, YOU are the voice of the people, the unheard masses, eh? Speaking for others. Hmm.. Fair enough, carry on, but I don't recall saying he "owed us" an update, I believe I worded it as others have worded it..its just a courtesy, a bit of "respect" for those who do have an interest in the project. Ok, so I'm pushy. I really could give a rats ass anymore, on whether this project sees the light of day or not. If it does, I'll enjoy it. If it does not, I'll go right on breathing, living, commenting when I feel like it, and PLAYING PINBALL....same as I always have.

You don't like the way I say things, fine...but I'm hearing a lot more people these days, asking the same things I asked in the past. You may not like what they have to say either, but sooner or later, people get to a point where they would like some news....a few little words to make them feel better....

I'm not taking any opportunity to speak about this project and open source. I don't care what he does with it. I'll be speaking about other options, whenever they are present.

He's had a break...and quite a nice, long break....now how about just a few words for the community...


Peace,
Lynny

[settingsons]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

Every respect Rob but there is a lot more to it than that. Lynny really can't resist using any opportunity to bring up the subject of 'lack of updates' or how the project must be opensource. His comments come over as very pushy. Sarcastic references about Lou's Ghostbuster gun, etc just become tiresome. I have ignored them for some weeks now, and I am just saying what others think. It may be true that this is not the reason- who knows- everyone us different. However in his absence Lynny should give the guy a break and should stop saying he 'owes us' an update. Why does he? He doesn't work for us.

Now, YOU are the voice of the people, the unheard masses, eh? Speaking for others. Hmm.. Fair enough, carry on, but I don't recall saying he "owed us" an update, I believe I worded it as others have worded it..its just a courtesy, a bit of "respect" for those who do have an interest in the project. Ok, so I'm pushy. I really could give a rats ass anymore, on whether this project sees the light of day or not. If it does, I'll enjoy it. If it does not, I'll go right on breathing, living, commenting when I feel like it, and PLAYING PINBALL....same as I always have.

You don't like the way I say things, fine...but I'm hearing a lot more people these days, asking the same things I asked in the past. You may not like what they have to say either, but sooner or later, people get to a point where they would like some news....a few little words to make them feel better....

I'm not taking any opportunity to speak about this project and open source. I don't care what he does with it. I'll be speaking about other options, whenever they are present.

He's had a break...and quite a nice, long break....now how about just a few words for the community...


Peace,
Lynny

"Voice of the people" - some of your comments are quite memorable.

You make me laugh how you try to turn things in your favour and you do become aggressive very easily. That is the second time you have capitalised 'YOU' when you speak to me - it is equivalent to pointing your finger in someones face when you speak to them. Very nice.

[Lynny]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

Every respect Rob but there is a lot more to it than that. Lynny really can't resist using any opportunity to bring up the subject of 'lack of updates' or how the project must be opensource. His comments come over as very pushy. Sarcastic references about Lou's Ghostbuster gun, etc just become tiresome. I have ignored them for some weeks now, and I am just saying what others think. It may be true that this is not the reason- who knows- everyone us different. However in his absence Lynny should give the guy a break and should stop saying he 'owes us' an update. Why does he? He doesn't work for us.

Now, YOU are the voice of the people, the unheard masses, eh? Speaking for others. Hmm.. Fair enough, carry on, but I don't recall saying he "owed us" an update, I believe I worded it as others have worded it..its just a courtesy, a bit of "respect" for those who do have an interest in the project. Ok, so I'm pushy. I really could give a rats ass anymore, on whether this project sees the light of day or not. If it does, I'll enjoy it. If it does not, I'll go right on breathing, living, commenting when I feel like it, and PLAYING PINBALL....same as I always have.

You don't like the way I say things, fine...but I'm hearing a lot more people these days, asking the same things I asked in the past. You may not like what they have to say either, but sooner or later, people get to a point where they would like some news....a few little words to make them feel better....

I'm not taking any opportunity to speak about this project and open source. I don't care what he does with it. I'll be speaking about other options, whenever they are present.

He's had a break...and quite a nice, long break....now how about just a few words for the community...


Peace,
Lynny

"Voice of the people" - some of your comments are quite memorable.

You make me laugh how you try to turn things in your favour and you do become aggressive very easily. That is the second time you have capitalised 'YOU' when you speak to me - it is equivalent to pointing your finger in someones face when you speak to them. Very nice.

Well, then I suppose it has the desired effect, as I was talking to YOU...and no one else. If I were speaking face to face, which we aren't so its irrelevant, but if I were, I could simply turn, and address my comments to you. I said it in that way, because I spoke in the past about "what others were thinking" and got my lower portion, beneath my back, chewed on, for speaking "for the people" Its really here nor there, to me. I'm not going to apologize for my speaking style, it wouldn't make an ounce of difference, and it wouldn't be honest to myself. People will have a problem with someone if they don't like or agree with what they have to say, even if they whisper it in soft, mushy, baby tones...

I do however, regret that I don't always come across in a manner I may have intended, but that apparently can't be helped. Just remember, when enough people get tired of waiting for news, on this "project" and begin voicing discontent, that they can't all be branded as loud and obnoxious, or pushy...

Leave me out of the conversations, and I'll stay out of them. I sincerely wish this "project", all the best.

Peace,
Lynny

[rob046]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

Every respect Rob but there is a lot more to it than that. Lynny really can't resist using any opportunity to bring up the subject of 'lack of updates' or how the project must be opensource. His comments come over as very pushy. Sarcastic references about Lou's Ghostbuster gun, etc just become tiresome. I have ignored them for some weeks now, and I am just saying what others think. It may be true that this is not the reason- who knows- everyone us different. However in his absence Lynny should give the guy a break and should stop saying he 'owes us' an update. Why does he? He doesn't work for us.

Honestly, when things turn to bickering I just tune out. Lynny might very well be a PITA. I just don't think lou isn't posting here just because of that. Probably doesn't help though. Lou doesn't owe us anything, of course. But he also shouldn't leave us in the dark when it is so easy to post.
I mean, even if only because some other inspired member here might want to start working on their own pinball sim, it would be nice to know if this one is going to kick off or not.

[destruk]

AJ, Randy, even Black didn't ever post much.

[The Loafer]

+1 to Brian.

Listen, I would LOVE to see posts from Lou, but if there's nothing to report at the moment, there's nothing to report and it was made clear in his last post that this was going to take a backseat for a while. When there is news, don't you think he would provide info???

Bottom line for me is this. I know no one is suggesting it but to be clear, this is not a case of "take the money and run", he hasn't seen a dime. To me, that means he doesn't owe us one bit of info, especially if there's nothing to bloody report.

[Bob5453]

AJ, Randy, even Black didn't ever post much.

All of those guys together had less than 1000 posts at old VPF, maybe less than 500 altogether.

I was never excited over this thread, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with VP, it looks totally like an FP project to me. I have no desire to learn any 3-D model stuff, so as a table builder, I just saw it as the death of VP, which would be a sad thing.

[oooPLAYER1ooo]

You don't abandon a project just because 1 person might be bugging you. That is silly to say & it sounds like you are making excuses for lou. He probably got stuck and/or burned out, & that is that. But since so many people did put in a nice chunk of cash, & even way more ppl have a lot emotionally invested into this project/thread due to the promise of what it can hold... I do think louizou should get on here & keep us updated, no matter what the situation is. Even if it is just a line or two, takes 10 seconds & everybody would feel better knowing what is going on.

How do you know 1 guy could stop this project rob, one guy is making it. if america can invade a country because of one person why does it sound so silly?.
to be honest if i was louizou reading some of the posts here i would say f#@k it too. the amount of dedication that would go into a project like this is a tuff ask even with nothing but positive posts.

[numiah]

+1 to Brian.

... "he hasn't seen a dime" ...

Where did the dimes go ?