49 replies to this topic

[Noah Fentz]

How is it a hack if you're only changing values through scripting?

As long as the source of the program remains unchanged, it seems perfectly legit to me.

[light66]

It's not via scripting.
I'm talking resource hacking, so technically it alters the exe file but not the code.
Let's just leave it there, i just thought i would mention it.

light

[Shockman]

Well I think the developer brought this on himself. On his page, and as a comment on other pages he claims that it uses an advanced physics engine. It's Newton for crying out loud, there is nothing advanced about it. It's a general purpose physics engine. It does not matter how advanced the engine is for it's general purpose. It needs a dedicated Pinball physics engine. There is nothing advanced about physics, it is what it is, every attemp to advance on physics is going to fail. Every 'physics engine' is unadvanced as a rule, the rule of physics.

The table developers share blame for the harping questions as well. I have to almost double the table slope on every table I try, then the ball at least kind of acts like it on a pinball tables surface. But then everything else needs tweaked to keep any action. I've seen unlevel kitchen floors that a pinball would roll on as fast as some of these tables.

I have not downloaded a single FP table and was impressed in the least by the physics. I have doubled the slope on some and strengthened the other elements to match, and thought, well it was made for older pins, at least it has elements to use that are mostly older in style, but physics are physics, they don't change, not for style, or for era. Newton understood that, and I think if he was alive today he would sue to have his name taken off the product.

Having said all of that, I am a fan of Pinball, of VP and FP. But I find it hard to imagine that the developer is the least bit happy with the physics, and I think he has the skill and knowledge to make a physics engine that would blow Newton (cough) physics away as far as pinball.

As far as I'm concerned it not a matter of VP's physics being better than FP's. It's a matter of VP's being good and FP's being bad.

That's not a reflection on FP, FP is great. Everything Chris has done to FP is great except for the stain on the monitor. He just did NOTHING physics wise, he left it to Newton, and I don't like the Newton engine any more than Newton would.

[somberkiss]

The very truth is VP9 on a good running PC has the closest physics to an actual pinball table. Sure there are tables on FP that are cool, but I would like to see a change in the physics, yes you can "get used" to it, but they just aren't quite there yet. Hey programming this stuff is hard and the people do an exceptional job at it. Give them credit!!

[FrankT]

I'm not really conceited, nor taking sides - VP is easy to use and doesn't need all those other tools.. on the other hand, you can actually program a DMD in FP... in that way, VP has all the fast paces in its physics - FP can too if you set the parameters right..

Which is better? There's only one way to find out.... FIIIIIIGGGGHHHHTTT!!!!!!

Edited by FrankT, 26 March 2011 - 10:18 AM.

[007]

Oh, Crikey, don't start all that up again...

[anthias]

I had tried to create an FP table once and now remember the many headaches and migraines I got from trying to get the mouse to precisely hit a point on FP. Gave up on creating in FP after that whole nightmare.

* Intocication disclaimer * (I may or may not regret this post in the morning - take it as you will)

ummmm thats why it has LAYERS? you use the editor properly and your problem is non existent. pegs = one layer, rubbers = a second of the 10 available layers, plastics = a third of them. You view only the layer you want (it takes less than 3 seconds to change the visible layers by clicking them) and then you have no problem. Of course while building you should be setting the layers, of the objects, but the layer system is incredibly useful and gives you flexibility for incredibly complex table building. And once again, those with the errrr interesting physics problems, buy a halfway decent pc. Even if the system is good on paper, it can still be a total peace of crap (*COUGH* Acer! *COUGH* DELL! *COUGH*), and I suspect this is more often than not the case. I have YET (after what - 6 years of daily use of FP) to see a ball hit the right slingshot and shoot up to the right into the outlane. I am also yet to see it shoot vertically up the table in anything greater than the real life probability. And I have yet to have ANY problems hitting shots or duplicating them in any frequency less than real life in FP. Its simply NO WORSE THAN VP (on my pc). Now my PC is not incredible - its only an athlon X2 7850 with 4gb ram and a 512mb 9600gt, but I keep it maintained and it has NEVER displayed any of the physics faults everyone reports with FP. Fact. The only physics dramas I have seen involve mismatched bumper parts causing the ball to launch, and back in v1.2 the launching much like VP used to do on ramps, both were always easily fixed with a well placed surface if you are silly enough to mismatch the bumper parts in that way - the ramps not being such a drama any more (btw that is like I did on Bones, which if you play it, should not launch the ball - so where is the problem? VP has ALWAYS survived ENTIRELY on workarounds for buggy stupidity, so why does FP have to be out of the box perfect? its double standards afaic which frankly is silly. Neither is perfect, both are fun. We should all just deal with it. And if something strange happens on a table, maybe its a fault with the table, and not with FP.

[Pinbotic]

Very well said anthias. I have always been playing FP on a high performance computer and rarely do I ever see something greatly out of the ordinary with regards to the physics. A few slight tweaks on the slope and flippers can make it play nearly as good as VP does and be plenty of fun.

[Sabbat]

you can actually program a DMD in FP

you can do that on VP and on real pinball machines now with proc.

[FrankT]

And I have yet to have ANY problems hitting shots or duplicating them in any frequency less than real life in FP. Its simply NO WORSE THAN VP (on my pc).

Absolutely - tell the truth, I can't really see the difference - but then I wasn't raised playing many pinball machines..