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Funhouse (Williams 1990)_Bigus(MOD)[Visual Pinball X MOD]


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#41 Gravy

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Posted 02 February 2023 - 11:39 PM

I must also point out this table is a derivative of JP's table, who has given blanket permission to MOD his tables, and, therefore, ALL subsequent MODs are FREE TO MOD. I point this out numerous times in the guidelines and the following discussions.

This seems to clarify the situation for this particular table even though it would have been good etiquette to reach out. I do recall JP saying that any mods to his tables should be then be free to mod further by third parties.

I also note that JP requests that any mods of his tables be uploaded here (albeit non exclusively). Unsure when that request was made and whether it should be applied retroactively to older mods of his tables?


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#42 Noah Fentz

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 01:42 PM

So ... I extend the invitation to have an adult discussion ... crickets.

 

This isn't about resolution, is it? Since there are no takers, I can only assume this is about harassment, not resolution.

 

@Gravy - JP has always requested MODs of his tables to be shared here. It's supposed to be a courtesy. We all see how that worked out. Is courteousness still a thing? I'm finding it to be fairly elusive these days.


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#43 hcj13

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 03:12 PM

So ... I extend the invitation to have an adult discussion ... crickets.
 
This isn't about resolution, is it? Since there are no takers, I can only assume this is about harassment, not resolution.


I wish bigus would detail his mods and us can make better decision to download his mods.

He blank says every table have a “make over” which we are discussing isn’t a significant mod. Why couldn’t we ask/demand him to state specifics of the mod. Such as we found out here. The physics mod is just a VUK modification and no other physics changes.

That way newbies can be better informed to what these mods contribute to the table.

So I ask Noah to demand bigus to detail his mods in the future to what changes were made.

Thanks

#44 bigus1

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 04:03 PM

Yeah, it's a big investment and you don't want to get ripped-off :)



#45 Noah Fentz

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 04:16 PM

@bigus (and all modders, really) - You must detail and document your MODs better. Every major change would be helpful in determining the extent of the changes. It would also be helpful in several other aspects, including avoiding conflicts like this.

Just to be clear, in this particular instance, I have no reference to make a determination. Still don't. If the complainants would like to PM it to me, or, better yet, share it with everyone, that would be helpful.

Thank you.

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#46 wrd1972

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 04:30 PM

So ... I extend the invitation to have an adult discussion ... crickets.

 

This isn't about resolution, is it? Since there are no takers, I can only assume this is about harassment, not resolution.

 

@Gravy - JP has always requested MODs of his tables to be shared here. It's supposed to be a courtesy. We all see how that worked out. Is courteousness still a thing? I'm finding it to be fairly elusive these days.

Not fair Noah!

 

Dont be shocked that takers have not responded since its only 15 hours past you invite. I intend to take you up on your offer. However, I have not yet PMd you because I have more pressing matters to address at the moment like sleep, family, kids to school, and work since you posted your invite. I intend to do it Friday night or Saturday.


Edited by wrd1972, 03 February 2023 - 04:31 PM.

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#47 bigus1

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 04:40 PM

The lighting is the product of dozens, if not hundreds of small changes that add-up to a major change, but is impractical to document in detail. Same goes for the physics in many cases. And particular to me, I have to deal with folks that want to do a CSI if they get the tiniest bit of info - as with this table. It's difficult.



#48 wrd1972

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 05:14 PM



JP has always requested MODs of his tables to be shared here. It's supposed to be a courtesy. We all see how that worked out. Is courteousness still a thing? I'm finding it to be fairly elusive these days.

I REALLY hope your not referring to me by this comment.

 

I want to make one thing very clear right now. My initial VPX Funhouse release was posted here at VPF, way back in 2017, as well as EVERY single revision that I ever made of it. I also routinely make an attempt to list the changes from rev to rev as best I can without going into the weeds. I did not do this because I was told to, and I also did not do it as directed by a ruleset. I did it out of courtesy, and because it was the right thing to do. 

 

untitled91.png


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#49 Noah Fentz

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 05:25 PM

 

So ... I extend the invitation to have an adult discussion ... crickets.

 

This isn't about resolution, is it? Since there are no takers, I can only assume this is about harassment, not resolution.

 

@Gravy - JP has always requested MODs of his tables to be shared here. It's supposed to be a courtesy. We all see how that worked out. Is courteousness still a thing? I'm finding it to be fairly elusive these days.

Not fair Noah!

 

Dont be shocked that takers have not responded since its only 15 hours past you invite. I intend to take you up on your offer. However, I have not yet PMd you because I have more pressing matters to address at the moment like sleep, family, kids to school, and work since you posted your invite. I intend to do it Friday night or Saturday.

 

 

TOTALLY fair. My mom's in Hospice care, and here I am being active and trying to resolve conflict. It only takes minutes for the organized mob to appear and reply, until I extend the invitation to actually discuss the matter. Then, it's crickets. This is a repeat trend.

 

The invite is always open.

 

 

 



JP has always requested MODs of his tables to be shared here. It's supposed to be a courtesy. We all see how that worked out. Is courteousness still a thing? I'm finding it to be fairly elusive these days.

I REALLY hope your not referring to me by this comment.

 

I want to make one thing very clear right now. My initial VPX Funhouse release was posted here at VPF, way back in 2017, as well as EVERY single revision that I ever made of it. I also routinely make an attempt to list the changes from rev to rev as best I can without going into the weeds. I did not do this because I was told to, and I also did not do it as directed by a ruleset. I did it out of courtesy, and because it was the right thing to do. 

 

untitled91.png

 

 

It certainly wouldn't apply to you, then.

 

Over the past several years, we've witnessed it's become trendy to MOD JP's work, then make it 'policy' to not share it back to VPF. Another repeat trend and the main reason MOD rules have become less restrictive.

 

Those people know who they are.


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#50 cv2065

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 06:03 PM

Bigus Strikes again with another apparent low value-add Rip-Off. Yeah I said it, just like 32asassin said it not too long ago. So lets rip this Band-aid off!

 

So you mentioned you gave this FH mod a makeover, and you mentioned specifically you made a better playfield. Below is a side-by-side of our two tables PLUS a close up shot to show PF detail.

untitled212.png

 

My hobbyist photographer eyes sees a clear distinction between these two images. The transparent ramps and parts of the playfield are much better realized in the Bigus Mod, although I do prefer the colors of the wrd1972 original version. Definitely a different feel to each table. 



#51 jpsalas

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 06:48 PM

Looking at those 2 pictures, I must say I like better Bigus inserts, but I like better wrd1972 Gi lights. The ramps: Bigus ramps looks like old plastic, wrt1972 ramps looks like liquid metal (mostly like all the 3D baked ramps use to look, and it is not a bad thing, just different). I actually don't like plastic ramps, as they look "cheap" to me :)

 

And it is true, I don't care if someone mods my tables, and I always have asked to upload the tables here, but it is only very few who do that. I asked that because I don't visit much the other sites. Many people ask me permission to mod my tables, and I always say yes, and some of them send me the table for review, others don't. I'm used to that now. I even help many people with their mods of my tables, and sometimes the tables are being uploaded here, but for the most part don't. 

 

Before when someone made a mod of a table, he used to send the table to the author so he could review the changes, and if the author like the changes then he could upload it as a new version, and the name of the modder was added to the table. I remember many people made changes to my tables, and because there were so many changes, that I asked those persons to upload it under their name, because if there are problems then they should be able to fix them, and not me. 

 

I'm not sure if I'm responsible for the mods people are making by changing the graphics and sounds of tables. I guess I did that when I made my own versions of tables using other graphics, but I never took a finished table and changed the graphics, I always started by scratch, and it was like this like tables like Mago de Oz, Pokemon, Friday the 13th, IT, Slimer or even my Iron Man, Avengers or Transformers were made. I guess it is easy to mod a table than to make a new one from scratch :)

 

I see that I wrote too much already, I guess I'm getting old, or I have the flu or that covid since my head is spinning like mad, but please continue, don't mind this old person talking (me :) ) Just go and play some pinball :)


If you want to check my latest uploads then click on the image below:

 

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#52 Wylte

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 07:02 PM

The lighting is the product of dozens, if not hundreds of small changes that add-up to a major change, but is impractical to document in detail. Same goes for the physics in many cases. And particular to me, I have to deal with folks that want to do a CSI if they get the tiniest bit of info - as with this table. It's difficult.

You don't have to document every number changed to have a good changelog.  Just keep track of what you've done in a particular area and summarize it.  It's helpful to keep track for yourself, too.  I generally have a to-do in the script, which I then move into a list of things done, and when I get into the weeds or upload a version for someone else to see/work on I add more detail so it's tracked.

'Wylte Table Tune-Up:  Alignment of every part, nFozzy physics, Roth Targets, Fleep ToM sounds, Dynamic Ball Shadows, Sling Corrections, TargetBouncer, LUT changer, RampRolling sounds, physical trough, Lampz
'	Also: Implemented FastFlips(hacked), sorted the layers, formatted script, removed duplicate objects, fixed dt's, fixed assignments, made u-turns real,
'		made robots animate better and need front collision, re-origined and animated RampExit, made ramp walls into wall walls, probably lots of other stuff...

'	0.9.1 Wylte - Lowered flipper up angle, tied flippers to rom sound bytes so they properly shut off between games (thanks Apophis!)
'	0.9.2 Wylte - Apron work, bumper force decrease, sling force decrease, slope increased, flipper power increased, plastics real
'	0.9.3 Wylte - Flupper Bumpers (ish), Lampz, Lamps, GI, robot lighting, target meshes, leaf switch meshes, target lights, ramp walls -> wall walls, general cleanup
'	1.0   Wylte - Small tweak to arch geometry (skip the lanes less), lit up SPECIAL targets, extra light mods, adjusted u-turn, TargetBouncer on Robots, Release
'	1.1   Wylte - Knocker position, GI on/off, SPECIAL lights off with GI, slings won't fire while firing, flipper friction 0.9->0.8, targetbouncer on robots up, new environment image, lamp blooms, ball shadow update
'	1.11 Gedankekojote97 - baked playfield
'	1.12 Wylte - Lighting tweaks, droptarget shadows
'	1.13 Wylte - Bumper and slingshots disabled with GI on game end or tilt
'	1.14 Wylte - Plunger trigger tweak, TargetBouncer removed from bottom sling posts, droptarget shadows improved, target animations fixed, experiment with alternate material on switch secondary collidable
'	1.15 Wylte - Lumi DT backdrop, target DL way up, lane feed to bumpers corrected, GI mod option, rollover stars given lights to simulate buttons (no model yet)
'	1.16 Lumi  - Backdrop light tuning
'	1.2  Wylte - Droptarget DL code, user options set, fixed plastic cutting through riser ramp, sounds cleaned up, images cleaned up, Apron/tunnel/ramp light up (thanks HauntFreaks), release

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#53 Mr H

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 04:55 AM

Pretty simple folks.

Bigus is not modding he is adjusting.
Just like hundreds of other users do in their own home to their vpx files but don't upload, thankfully or there really would hundreds of version online.

He should ask the original author for permission to adjust or as the site says mod, make his adjustments submit back to the original author or latest author for approval, and if approved his name credited in the current list of people that have worked on it and adjustments added to the revision list all under the original vpx file.

No need to have many versions of the same table, it makes vpforums look like a mess (sorry Noah).

#54 bigus1

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:09 AM

So who should the annointed one be?  Plenty of other authors in the evolution of these tables. Unworkable. Should VPW hand their X-Men over to freneticamnesic?



#55 Mr H

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:13 AM

They are in a completely different category. The do full rebuilds or/and close to it. Not basic adjustments.

#56 bigus1

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:16 AM

You wouldn't have a clue what I do.



#57 GHOSTfaceKILLr7

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:27 AM

You wouldn't have a clue what I do.


Keep doing what you're doing bigus1 whether it's a mod, update, adjustment, revision, tweak or what ever you want to call it. I'll still download from you. If it's good, I'll keep it!

#58 Mr H

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:29 AM

Probably adjust some or hundreds of values slightly up and down, move things a little to the left and or right, a little code adjustment here and there, a little photoshoping, change some of the materials, lighting, physics values slightly oh and the main adjustment...change the file name to include your name.

Screen capture your next table adjustments and upload a video.

It shows that alot of people don't realise your changes like the guy or gal said early something about your physics feeling more fun, with your reply I didn't make those changes. It just comes down to the game at play like in real life on a real pin. Some games you can play awesome and have fun, next game can be terrible and not feel so good.

#59 bigus1

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:34 AM

LOL  (a little)



#60 Mr H

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Posted 04 February 2023 - 05:38 AM

Haha, enjoy the day. Good luck with the debate.