63 replies to this topic

[TerryRed]

I've said it before...and I'll say it again. Make tables, B2S, PuP-Packs, etc because you love to do it.

 

If any of you are thinking that your work will never be shared / posted on other sites / torrents... you are kidding yourself. Everyone is giving this guy WAY too much exposure and time. Clearly has nothing better to do. Unless he is doing something over the line (like the topic of this post), then don't acknowledge that his existence is worth giving two thoughts about. 

 

Pulling your tables from the "VP" community sites because someone posts them elsewhere makes no sense to me. You are just doing the opposite of what you think your are avoiding. You are making those other sites more appealing to others.

 

Take a page from JPSalas, and others. They post their stuff knowing it gets posted elsewhere at some point. That doesn't stop them from doing what they enjoy in this "hobby".

 

Same goes for me. I do what I do because I have fun with it, and I like seeing others enjoy it. This is a "hobby", not a product or job. I know at some point whatever I work on will be found at locations I didn't post them. Oh well... big frigging deal. I may not like it or support it, but why would I decide to pull anything I work on because of that, or stop doing what I enjoy? If anything the guys who download from these locations will lose out on updates / support since they have no clue about how any of it works.

 

Don't let the ass-hats win. This is OUR hobby. So lets enjoy it, and move on.

Edited by TerryRed, 07 May 2021 - 01:01 PM.

[Noah Fentz]

 

Anyone know this tapeworms name?

 

It's tell a joke day

 

 

If you receive one of these from him, he made it here

Cease And Desist Letter - Sample & Template [Free Download] (Word) TrackTime24

 

If i put his name, i will get yelled at for doxxing*

 

*semloh hgiel naimad reversi

 

 

LOL!

 

I didn't yell at you! It was a bit ... much, that's all.

[fripounet]

this man is selfless. he is concerned about the good of the community,

he is afraid that noah will savagely close his site (like vpinball).

and thus see all the tables disappear. 

 

Edited by fripounet, 09 May 2021 - 05:14 AM.

[wiesshund]

it is man is altruism. he is concerned about the good of the community,

he is afraid that noah will savagely close his site (like vpinball).

and thus see all the tables disappear. 

 

 

 

 

Pretty sure das ist nicht es

[BrandonLaw]

This thread, as per usual, is weird.

 

If you're mad about folks taking...as some folks do...check our your paycheck 

 

Crazy is crazy...can't understand it and certainly can't change it. 

 

As Joe Dirte says: Keep on keepin' on.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=8MzJB1MMRzk

 

Let's reel it back in.  Keep it light and loose.

 

Strippers.

[wiesshund]

 Keep it light and loose.

 

Strippers.

 

I'm afraid to go looser

LOL

 

And then there is

[wild]

Hi to all of you.

 

I followed from the rear, the story of this "guy"and I really believe that this world, regarding this hobby, is a crazy world.

Now,after seeing his post, the one that offered money for the tables, very unlikely thing he could do, out of curiosity I registered on his site, and I asked him a question, but I did not get an answer,instead what I keep seeing on his site is to insert the tables that others built, including some of mine, I was not surprised, I knew that he did.

Now because I think this is a crazy world .... because it is logical that if we put a table on the internet (in any pinball site), this automatically becomes "prey", of all, and anyone can do whatever they want with it, regardless of whether they ask for permission or not.

now, we all those who make the tables (recreation,or original), we know that every table we,make uses "music, graphics, redraw, models," rom "and etc, etc" which is someone else's, and in many thre is the copyright..... it is difficult for us to be authors of something unique and owned by us, only the work done to make the table, which is not a trivial matter, we can say it's ours, but if you make it available to everyone, "voilà" here it is... what can happen, take the tables and upload them to your site, as if he had made them himself as this guy is doing .

copyright, this is a very delicate and complex thing ..... do we really want to talk about this? can we use it to preserve our tables?

So unless we create a totally unique table, that is, with your own created music (impossible IMO to do) or with your own unpublished graphics .... I believe that it is impossible to prevent a "type of person" from taking the table in question,and do what he wants with it, as in this case put it on his site without permission.

The permission is just a formality, including: a respect that one person can have towards another, or follow the will of that author ... which i always did here, i always asked for permission to recreate a vpx to fp table. But for some this approach is not valid, and to they don't care, and do what he wants....So when you see this what do you do Do you start a war with this guy? do you rely on the legal process? What are you going to do?

So in my opinion(IMO), either you ignore it and move on, or you don't share your tables on pinball sites.But there is a doubt that pervades me, opening a site has a cost, maintaining it has another one, so I wonder what its real purpose is? if everyone ignores him for what he is doing, and no one registers, and no one gives him a donation for the site ... how can he continue to stay active?

[njk70]

Technically you can enforce a copyright/license on the parts of the table that don't infringe on other copyrights (rom, art, music/sounds) but I can't imagine anyone knowingly taking on that case.... imo

[LynnInDenver]

Yeah, the music wouldn't be too hard - there is Creative Commons stuff out there that can be used for that.

 

But yeah, for the recreations, even if you can have copyright to the code that makes the VPX table work, no lawyer in their right mind would take it because it would be too easy for the defense to basically dismantle it, plus that the IP owner would be incredibly likely to step in and have words with both parties in the case.

[anthias]

I have done many original tables over the years with my complete ownership of all graphics and music etc. In those cases I am not only in my rights to demand they not be redistributed, in some jurisdictions it is a requirement that I do so to retain the right to continue to claim my ownership. This is more complicated when the original work is a derivative work of a non pinball IP also owned by me.

As for the question of ownership of portions of a table original to it, like code or layout, under copyright law in most countries, your pinball table based on popular movie xyz is considered a derivative work, and the moment you put it out there it becomes technically the property of the entity that owns the IP (movie xyz) it is derivative of, in its entirety. You may retheme and use those original components in another table. With those derivative works it is considered prudent to restrict proliferation as much as possible as if site x charges for it, you as the creator may be seen as liable should that come under legal scrutiny. That said, to date I don't know of any third party distribution resulting in first party litigation in the case of fan created derivative works, but that is a test we might not want to take.

[TerryRed]

I have done many original tables over the years with my complete ownership of all graphics and music etc. In those cases I am not only in my rights to demand they not be redistributed, in some jurisdictions it is a requirement that I do so to retain the right to continue to claim my ownership. This is more complicated when the original work is a derivative work of a non pinball IP also owned by me.

As for the question of ownership of portions of a table original to it, like code or layout, under copyright law in most countries, your pinball table based on popular movie xyz is considered a derivative work, and the moment you put it out there it becomes technically the property of the entity that owns the IP (movie xyz) it is derivative of, in its entirety. You may retheme and use those original components in another table. With those derivative works it is considered prudent to restrict proliferation as much as possible as if site x charges for it, you as the creator may be seen as liable should that come under legal scrutiny. That said, to date I don't know of any third party distribution resulting in first party litigation in the case of fan created derivative works, but that is a test we might not want to take.

 

 

I am assuming you made some original FP tables? Like Flame Reaper? (great table btw) Are there others you can list in case I may have missed them. I LOVE the work from guys like you, Steve Paradis, and other older FP table authors.

 

Update: nevermind... I saw the UPLOAD LIST button.

Edited by TerryRed, 09 May 2021 - 06:20 PM.

[anthias]

TerryRed, most of my FP tables aren't up here. I will upload them here some time when I have a chance, but they are all at pinsimdb. That site, this one, and pinball nirvana are the only sites I will endorse for distribution of my tables at this time. I reserve the right to add others should they arise. One day P-O may be reborn, and at that time, it would become once more my primary location naturally.

 

A fair selection of my VP tables are here, but not all. I have been uploading those here from time to time, but there were over a hundred of my VP tables and not all of them were worth saving. Many of my VP tables were completely original work as well, such as Goth Club 2040, Goblin Games, and of course my first ever table release Dr Rollover, which was first done twenty years ago (and recently updated a little.) The fan work tables were often more popular, but not always superior. Though in those, many of the anime tables were very well recieved, some by the anime creators themselves!
 

[Armyaviation]

3rdaxis, I am confused, what does this have to do with VPU? Is that the reason you are upset with that site

[fripounet]

intellectual or artistic property is only valid if it has been deposit and registered.

otherwise it's windy.

 

and even in the broad sense (property title : house, car....).

 

we must distinguish 2 aspects: morality and legality.

 

example : bill gates had fucked paul allen and steve job had fucked xerox

Edited by fripounet, 11 May 2021 - 04:29 PM.

[anthias]

That is absolutely incorrect. As an Australian, the moment I create it, it is protected under the law. Evem in the USA, where depositing and registering is a thing, you still own it even if you don't do that. But in the case of my litarary IP, you are tripply incorrect, since they are all held in the national library regardless,
 

[fripounet]

it's strange, in absolute terms

how can you prove that you are the creator, if no registration or  document dated has been deposit ?

 

for the  music for example, if the work (the score) is not deposited at the sacem,(ascap or bmi for usa or prs for uk)

copyrights are not recognized.

 

to my knowledge, a rare industry does not deposit a patent.

example the perfume industry, because they must indicate their composition (therefore risk of counterfeiting).

Edited by fripounet, 12 May 2021 - 12:04 AM.

[Shockman]

Hi to all of you.

 

I followed from the rear, the story of this "guy"and I really believe that this world, regarding this hobby, is a crazy world.

Now,after seeing his post, the one that offered money for the tables, very unlikely thing he could do, out of curiosity I registered on his site, and I asked him a question, but I did not get an answer,instead what I keep seeing on his site is to insert the tables that others built, including some of mine, I was not surprised, I knew that he did.

Now because I think this is a crazy world .... because it is logical that if we put a table on the internet (in any pinball site), this automatically becomes "prey", of all, and anyone can do whatever they want with it, regardless of whether they ask for permission or not.

now, we all those who make the tables (recreation,or original), we know that every table we,make uses "music, graphics, redraw, models," rom "and etc, etc" which is someone else's, and in many thre is the copyright..... it is difficult for us to be authors of something unique and owned by us, only the work done to make the table, which is not a trivial matter, we can say it's ours, but if you make it available to everyone, "voilà" here it is... what can happen, take the tables and upload them to your site, as if he had made them himself as this guy is doing .

copyright, this is a very delicate and complex thing ..... do we really want to talk about this? can we use it to preserve our tables?

So unless we create a totally unique table, that is, with your own created music (impossible IMO to do) or with your own unpublished graphics .... I believe that it is impossible to prevent a "type of person" from taking the table in question,and do what he wants with it, as in this case put it on his site without permission.

The permission is just a formality, including: a respect that one person can have towards another, or follow the will of that author ... which i always did here, i always asked for permission to recreate a vpx to fp table. But for some this approach is not valid, and to they don't care, and do what he wants....So when you see this what do you do Do you start a war with this guy? do you rely on the legal process? What are you going to do?

So in my opinion(IMO), either you ignore it and move on, or you don't share your tables on pinball sites.But there is a doubt that pervades me, opening a site has a cost, maintaining it has another one, so I wonder what its real purpose is? if everyone ignores him for what he is doing, and no one registers, and no one gives him a donation for the site ... how can he continue to stay active?

Hi.

Absolutely you can use copyright law to preserve a table. Mine certainly is and any one that has existed for 3 years without adding new material that is copyrighted inside that time is as well. Copyright lasts a lifetime in most cases but there is a statute of limitation on claims.

[fripounet]

https://www.gov.uk/copyright

 

https://www.gov.uk/c...using-your-work

Edited by fripounet, 13 May 2021 - 08:54 PM.

[xenonph]

Do websites have the right to not allow the mirroring of their content?

I see it on websites all the time.

DO NOT MIRROR Download Links.

[wiesshund]

Do websites have the right to not allow the mirroring of their content?

I see it on websites all the time.

DO NOT MIRROR Download Links.

yes, you can stop mirroring of links at least somewhat

when the referring party is not the parent site
you can redirect the user to a page that tells them Hi it seems you came here from someplace else
please visit our main page and sign up

Have a great day