1388 replies to this topic

[Lynny]

Why don't you start writing your own sim then ?

and share the code with everybody...

Some people here seems to be more interested in the fact that this project should be open source rather than the content of the project himself !!

Why don't you use VP source and turn it into a blasting new 3D software ?

I'm not a programmer, but if I had your skills, I certainly would.
Its all the same..the source becomes the content of the project, and without the source, there is no "project".

Do not misunderstand. I am extremely interested in the content of the project. I know everyone on this board is interested in the content of the project. However, when one person has the power to hold the rest of the pinball community hostage, with their program, it really sucks. I remember the thread I saw, where the author of Future Pinball thought someone changed something in his program and he whined and cried that he wasn't going to work on it anymore...That type of thing sucks for those of us that love our pinball. That is why I champion a project being as potentially groundbreaking, as this thing is..to be open source..so that "we" the communty, keep it going..on and on and on...

I said I wasn't trying to upset anyone. I just wanted to be clear on what your intentions were, as I hadn't heard them stated directly.

Peace,
Lynny

[Syco54645]

Why don't you start writing your own sim then ?

and share the code with everybody...

Some people here seems to be more interested in the fact that this project should be open source rather than the content of the project himself !!

Why don't you use VP source and turn it into a blasting new 3D software ?

I'm not a programmer, but if I had your skills, I certainly would.
Its all the same..the source becomes the content of the project, and without the source, there is no "project".

Do not misunderstand. I am extremely interested in the content of the project. I know everyone on this board is interested in the content of the project. However, when one person has the power to hold the rest of the pinball community hostage, with their program, it really sucks. I remember the thread I saw, where the author of Future Pinball thought someone changed something in his program and he whined and cried that he wasn't going to work on it anymore...That type of thing sucks for those of us that love our pinball. That is why I champion a project being as potentially groundbreaking, as this thing is..to be open source..so that "we" the communty, keep it going..on and on and on...

I said I wasn't trying to upset anyone. I just wanted to be clear on what your intentions were, as I hadn't heard them stated directly.

Peace,
Lynny

I am an opensource developer and have contributed to many projects. louizou has stated that the source would be released after he is done. Too many people working on this would make it a pain for development. He can probably get things done faster working alone than with it being open source. When he does release the source I think something like github makes the most sense. He could then control the commits that make it back into the project. I guess he could put the source up now on github and do the same thing but would run risk of someone kanging his work.
And it is true that you have to have a license to compile and distribute unity3d applications. So once the source is out people will either have to pony up 1500 to work on it (unless they dont want to test it) or... well you know the other route.

Edited by Syco54645, 09 May 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Themer]

It's funny that those people asking for the project to be open source or to have insight in the future language reference don't have any development expierence themselves. When they would be programmers / developers they would know that developments in such an early stage come along with a lot of changes. Please let the real developers do things at their own speed, so that the result will be best. And open source doesn't always mean very much. Most projects die silently and other projects become a mess with an amount of different releases controlled by different people. The number of succesful open source projects is low, look at VP, there haven't been that much updates the last few years.

[rob046]

Why don't you start writing your own sim then ?

and share the code with everybody...

Some people here seems to be more interested in the fact that this project should be open source rather than the content of the project himself !!

Why don't you use VP source and turn it into a blasting new 3D software ?

I'm not a programmer, but if I had your skills, I certainly would.
Its all the same..the source becomes the content of the project, and without the source, there is no "project".

Do not misunderstand. I am extremely interested in the content of the project. I know everyone on this board is interested in the content of the project. However, when one person has the power to hold the rest of the pinball community hostage, with their program, it really sucks. I remember the thread I saw, where the author of Future Pinball thought someone changed something in his program and he whined and cried that he wasn't going to work on it anymore...That type of thing sucks for those of us that love our pinball. That is why I champion a project being as potentially groundbreaking, as this thing is..to be open source..so that "we" the communty, keep it going..on and on and on...

I said I wasn't trying to upset anyone. I just wanted to be clear on what your intentions were, as I hadn't heard them stated directly.

Peace,
Lynny

Whoa, speak for yourself! I could care less about the content of the project. I only care about the end result. If a better pinball sim comes out of this, I don't care how we get there. I support however the devs (dev) wants to go about doing things, especially since it will be free.
He's not holding anybody hostage. As long as he stick around to deal with bugs & do an occasional update, I'd be fine with that, open source or not.

Regarding FP, well I was on those forums when Black started to drift away from FP. Let me tell you it wasn't something 1 guy did. Black was clearly burned out on the project, & honestly I think he was very unhappy with how it had turned out & the problems with the physics that newton just couldn't seem to fix. He never admitted that, but if I put all that time & effort into a sim & had it play like that, I can't imagine I'd be too happy. Black was annoyed by many things before he abandoned FP. He was a cranky dude. Burnt toast. I don't know what event was the straw that broke the camels back, but it doesn't matter. Black was gonna abandon FP regardless, & he did.

[Lynny]

It's funny that those people asking for the project to be open source or to have insight in the future language reference don't have any development expierence themselves. When they would be programmers / developers they would know that developments in such an early stage come along with a lot of changes. Please let the real developers do things at their own speed, so that the result will be best. And open source doesn't always mean very much. Most projects die silently and other projects become a mess with an amount of different releases controlled by different people. The number of succesful open source projects is low, look at VP, there haven't been that much updates the last few years.

I think its funny when people make a judgement based on very little data, for example...

I studied quite a few different programming languages in college. I'm very familiar with software development. Just because I'm not a programmer now, does not mean that I never was, or that I have no knowledge of what it means to be a "real" developer. I'm assuming you are a "real" developer?

I agree that VP has not seen much growth in the last few years, which is a shame, but apparently number of programming, pinheads are few and far between. I'm still a firm believer in open source projects, whether they live or die, succeed or fail, they do so because of the community.

Peace,
Lynny

[settingsons]

Authoring a program is very much like authoring a book or painting a picture. Many authors like to work alone, as do painters, as do programmers. Creating a piece of software (especially games ) can be very rewarding pastime - the design, the problem solving, and watching each piece fit together slowly is what motivates a programmer to carry on. From my experience (and this is a personal thing), as soon as someone else gets involved in any project that starts out as my baby, it just becomes a pain in the ass and I lose interest quickly. Everyone's different, so let louizou do it his way.

Edited by settingsons, 09 May 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[cupid]

I can understand Luizou in his decision:

He's probably doing one of the biggest things he has ever done.

If you start a project like this, you are often in an trial and error stage - like for example the scripting system, that he changed some days ago. In an open Source project this would not really be possible or would cause side effects on other people trying to solve other problems.

If you have a good code base, Open Source makes sense.

What I learned and what I would recommend luizou, is that using sourceforge or github has advantages for programmers... Beeing able to travel back to earlier submissions, describing and commenting your changes etc.

I can also understand Luizou in his response:

Community:
Please be peaceful and think about what other may think when they read your comments. I've seen some posts about the beta VP with gamepad support on another forum that let me doubt that some people are able to do that. Fortunately the people here are nicer.
(edit: although reading "I agree that VP has not seen much growth in the last few years" makes me sad - max textures, alpha ramps, physics improvements, performance improvements, gamepad support, layback... i know i'm missing many things here...)

Another thing is that people whose mother tongue is not english might not understand the sub texts in your posts. (and maybe I did not in the other forum...)

Edited by cupid, 09 May 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Themer]

I'm not a programmer, but if I had your skills, I certainly would.

My judgement is based on a general observation from the start of this topic up to now. In the above sentence you say you don't have the skills, which makes me believe that you won't add anything to the project when it becomes open source. Thus, as many others, you're asking for the project to become open source for other people, known developers, who haven't shown interest (accept louizou's choise) in co-authoring the tool. And yes, I'm a qualified software engineer, which unfortunately leaves me with very little time to add much to the community (software-wise).

[Syco54645]

I'm a qualified software engineer, which unfortunately leaves me with very little time to add much to the community (software-wise).

+1 here. No time whatsoever. And call me lazy but I really don't want to spend all day programming then get home and program some more...

[destruk]

I do if it's different. ie - at work if all I do is code up media channels, and at home/after work I like to code up a different language with pinball or something else I consider important. If it was always the same thing I was programming, then I wouldn't.

[Syco54645]

I do if it's different. ie - at work if all I do is code up media channels, and at home/after work I like to code up a different language with pinball or something else I consider important. If it was always the same thing I was programming, then I wouldn't.

Well that is a good point. I suppose when I get home programming on the arduino is fun but not something i want to do often. I honestly cant stand being on a computer when I am away from work. I have my phone and can check most anything I need to on there.

[Lynny]

I do if it's different. ie - at work if all I do is code up media channels, and at home/after work I like to code up a different language with pinball or something else I consider important. If it was always the same thing I was programming, then I wouldn't.

Well that is a good point. I suppose when I get home programming on the arduino is fun but not something i want to do often. I honestly cant stand being on a computer when I am away from work. I have my phone and can check most anything I need to on there.

That is exactly why I'm glad I decided to get out of computers, as a career, and take a different path. I enjoy my time on them, more now, because its pursuits that I find relaxing, enjoyable...and sometimes completely irritating..lol I was afraid "that" would happen if I had continued with them as a "job".

Syco54645: What do you do with the Arduino? I have one sitting here, would be nice to DO something fun with it..

Peace,
Lynny

[Syco54645]

I do if it's different. ie - at work if all I do is code up media channels, and at home/after work I like to code up a different language with pinball or something else I consider important. If it was always the same thing I was programming, then I wouldn't.

Well that is a good point. I suppose when I get home programming on the arduino is fun but not something i want to do often. I honestly cant stand being on a computer when I am away from work. I have my phone and can check most anything I need to on there.

That is exactly why I'm glad I decided to get out of computers, as a career, and take a different path. I enjoy my time on them, more now, because its pursuits that I find relaxing, enjoyable...and sometimes completely irritating..lol I was afraid "that" would happen if I had continued with them as a "job".

Syco54645: What do you do with the Arduino? I have one sitting here, would be nice to DO something fun with it..

Peace,
Lynny

this was the most fun thing i did with an arduino to date.

[russdx]

love the ghost busters backback

are you using embedded audio? if so what are you using? some sort of mp3 board? / how are you getting the dual audio channels?

[Syco54645]

love the ghost busters backback

are you using embedded audio? if so what are you using? some sort of mp3 board? / how are you getting the dual audio channels?

i used the waveshield. i had every intention of open sourcing the project just lost interest because of how douchy the ghostbusters community is.
http://www.ladyada.n...ake/waveshield/

[russdx]

ahhh

how are you getting two channels out of it? i was under the impression you could only place one sample at a time?

[Syco54645]

ahhh

how are you getting two channels out of it? i was under the impression you could only place one sample at a time?

What do you mean two channels? I just hooked two speakers up to it. I have it going through a mono amp too from futurekit. It is only playing one sample, the wavs are just mixed like that. Is that what you meant?

[russdx]

ahhh

how are you getting two channels out of it? i was under the impression you could only place one sample at a time?

What do you mean two channels? I just hooked two speakers up to it. I have it going through a mono amp too from futurekit. It is only playing one sample, the wavs are just mixed like that. Is that what you meant?

Oh I thought it mentioned in the video running background music with effects at the same time. Must of miss heard Hehe

[Lynny]

I do if it's different. ie - at work if all I do is code up media channels, and at home/after work I like to code up a different language with pinball or something else I consider important. If it was always the same thing I was programming, then I wouldn't.

Well that is a good point. I suppose when I get home programming on the arduino is fun but not something i want to do often. I honestly cant stand being on a computer when I am away from work. I have my phone and can check most anything I need to on there.

That is exactly why I'm glad I decided to get out of computers, as a career, and take a different path. I enjoy my time on them, more now, because its pursuits that I find relaxing, enjoyable...and sometimes completely irritating..lol I was afraid "that" would happen if I had continued with them as a "job".

Syco54645: What do you do with the Arduino? I have one sitting here, would be nice to DO something fun with it..

Peace,
Lynny

this was the most fun thing i did with an arduino to date.

Dude!!!! I totally missed this reply, until Russdx said something about ghostbuster pack..and I'm like...what is he talking about..dug around till I found it..that is awesome..you have me thinking now..I could be using mine for something besides a dust collector..I'm going to have to talk to you about this..I could see some really wicked lighting effects for my motorcycle...put all those other lighting kits to shame...lolol...Hmmm...

Give me some ideas...that would be really fantastic to have a "light show" like that...and some sound effects on my bike..


Peace,
Lynny

[Syco54645]

I hate to bother you but how is it going? Hoping you have made some major strides lately.