734 replies to this topic

[hauntfreaks]

so  the pot lever is now embedded deeper into the plastic all the play is gone... I still had that delay in the plunger animation,... so what I did was pull the plunger back to were the animation starts, then started the calibration tool.... pulled it back to the full extension then returned it to when the animation started.... now the animation seems much closer... I believe this is what MJR was saying about the pot having a dead zone... If I were to ever remount the pot , like MJR said, I would mount it at the beginning of that dead zone....

 

Edited by hauntfreaks, 07 March 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[boiydiego]

hi mjr did you find the time to take a look at the triple tilting problem for tilt bob ?

[Zablon]

I got around to experimenting with this in my cab. Initial tests work well just holding it in place. I have to do some fancy stuff for lighting due to my RBG flippers affecting, but otherwise I like it, and the nudge is great as well

[mjr]

hi mjr did you find the time to take a look at the triple tilting problem for tilt bob ?

 

Sorry, no, that's still a ways down on my list.  I don't have a guess yet about when I'll get to it.

[boiydiego]

i understand mjr , hope someone can tackle this problem having a great score going for highscore then one bad hit on cabinet tilts it 3 times and then full tilts it is frustrating sometimes ..

[vampirolatino2]

Hi mjr! You'r pm is full ... I understand that I'm a member only too, only 10 messages

 

Anyways, I will put the message here. Hope it dosn't bother anyone!!

 

 

First of all ... I salute you in writing one of the best tutorials and thread about plunger design alternatives. Great work, seriously!!

I'm gonna follow your advice and tinker a little with this toy. I'm missing a nudge and a plunger in my future cab building. And the alternatives you provide are THE BEST (and cheap)  I have ever read.

I'm in the process of buying all the stuff I need, the board, the slide potentiometer and the ledwiz alternative list of things. I have one ledwiz, but it's already full with the implementation I want to do, but with this I can add more things without buying another ledwiz ... right? Can I have this for extra toys too? Will not interfere?

I haven't touched DOF so I don't know how everything works or integrate in VP... (noob here)

Do you have a more illustrated picture or diagram of a fully loaded ledwiz implementation?

I think I have almost everything else for extra or if needed down the road (crimps, molex, resistors, etc) ... have to find them, but there are somewhere in the house lol ...

Btw, the mosfets in mouser (they offer one of the best services around the word btw, not the cheapest, but quality items and great service) ... I found that the mosfet you link in the tutorial are in backourder (only 1 available) ... and was wondering.. why that in specific? Are there any other alternative? What specs I have to look for? I think this is an acceptable replacement right? http://www.mouser.pr...BUK95150-55A127

Sorry for all the questions and the long pm. Wanted to congrats you in you'r wonderful shared experience and work. Thanks a lot!!!

PS: Sorry for my bad english, it isn't my native language

[mjr]

Hi mjr! You'r pm is full ... I understand that I'm a member only too, only 10 messages

Anyways, I will put the message here. Hope it dosn't bother anyone!!

 

Sorry about the full mailbox - I need to clean up a bit!

 

These are good questions that might well be of interest to other people, so I'm actually kind of glad you posted them here.

 

 

I'm in the process of buying all the stuff I need, the board, the slide potentiometer and the ledwiz alternative list of things. I have one ledwiz, but it's already full with the implementation I want to do, but with this I can add more things without buying another ledwiz ... right? Can I have this for extra toys too? Will not interfere?

 

 

Right.  That's exactly what I'm doing and it works great.  The DOF guys even made things easy by adding a "KL25Z" option on their list that automatically selects unit #8, which is what the Pinscape software uses by default.  

 

The one thing to keep in mind is that the KL25Z only has 10 PWM-capable outputs.  If you're still in the planning stages, just make a list of which devices need PWM and which don't, and attach the PWM items (all or as many as possible) to the LedWiz.  PWM is for anything that needs dimming or speed control - basically anything with an LED or a motor.  You don't need PWM for contactors, solenoids, knockers, beacons, strobes, bells, chimes.  It's also not necessary for any of the front-panel buttons if you have lights in them (Start, Exit, Extra Ball, Launch Ball, Coin In, Menu, Info, etc), since those lights are just on or off.

 

 

 

 

I haven't touched DOF so I don't know how everything works or integrate in VP... (noob here)
Do you have a more illustrated picture or diagram of a fully loaded ledwiz implementation?

 

 

It's not too hard to get everything running with VP.  The DOF site has pretty clear installation instructions: http://directoutput....stallation.html.

 

I'll try to put together a block diagram of my wiring.  Every setup is unique, so you probably won't want to duplicate my setup exactly, but my setup is probably fairly typical.

 

 

Btw, the mosfets in mouser (they offer one of the best services around the word btw, not the cheapest, but quality items and great service) ... I found that the mosfet you link in the tutorial are in backourder (only 1 available) ... and was wondering.. why that in specific? Are there any other alternative? What specs I have to look for? I think this is an acceptable replacement right? http://www.mouser.pr...BUK95150-55A127

 

There's definitely nothing special about the specific MOSFETs I listed - lots of others will work just fine.  The only reason I have such specific part numbers in there is that I've had the experience myself of finding a nice circuit design on the Internet that only has vague indications of what parts to use, so I end up spending hours hunting around for the right parts - I just wanted to make this as plug-and-play as possible.  

 

The one your found - the BUK95150-55A127 - looks good to me.  The circuit in the build guide should actually work with a really wide range of MOSFETs.   It provides about +6V to the MOSFET gate, which I think should make it usable with practically any power MOSFET that I've seen.  Anything where the data sheet says it's good for switching applications will probably work.

 

The one you found can handle 55V at 13A, which is plenty of power handling for anything in a virtual pin cab.  The most power-guzzling device in my cab is probably the gear motor, which draws about 4A steady state, so 13A should be very safe.  I personally like having this stuff over-designed so that nothing gets hot.

 

Good luck with the project!

[vampirolatino2]

Mjr .. one work. Respect!

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond and be so clear. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

 

Will go ahead and buy all those things  I need and will be keep in touch. Hope this helps anyone too, to use "alternatives" in the parts. Well .... wish me luck!

Edited by vampirolatino2, 23 March 2015 - 07:25 PM.

[vampirolatino2]

So basically I just need to remove from my original LEdwiz design the 8 contactors, 1 knocker and 2 strobes... (10 free spaces!!!!!) .... now I can add more LEDs, the Beacon I want, the Fan I want ... and have free space in the Ledwiz for more toys down the road. Great!!!

 

This is my list of things: 10 Leds in a bar down/back the playfield, 5 more in the topper, 1 knocker, 1 gear motor, 1 motor, 4 side (flipper leds buttons), start, extra ball and plunger led buttons, 1 fan, 2 strobes in the topper, 8 contactors (2 flipper, 2 side bumpers, 3 pop-bumpers, 1 to the end of the cab), 1 ambient led strip (down the cab), just for the sides.

 

I think that's everything .... now  I need to remember how many ports I have in the LEDwiz and how many are in the KL25Z ... and re-arrange everything

Anyone can do me a favor and arrange all I mention in the use of a Ledwiz and KL25Z? This plan was like 2 years ago and I don't remember how It was configured... ugh.

Edited by vampirolatino2, 23 March 2015 - 08:10 PM.

[vampirolatino2]

I found my old configuration:

 

https://drive.google...saUk&authuser=0

 

From the 30 of 32 possible ports, I can free 10 ports right? more?

[mjr]

I found my old configuration:

 

https://drive.google...saUk&authuser=0

 

From the 30 of 32 possible ports, I can free 10 ports right? more?

 

I'd say you can move all of the contactors to the KL25Z, plus the beacon, strobe, and knocker.  None of those make any use of PWM so you can put them on plain on/off ports on the KL25Z (put them on port numbers 11 and up - ports 1-10 on the KL25Z are the PWM-capable ones).  I think you can also move the button lights (Start, Launch, Extra Ball).  Those are light bulbs so technically you could dim them, but I don't think the software ever does.  I think they're just on or off.  So you can also move those to non-PWM ports on the KL25Z.

 

That gives you 14 new PWM ports on the LedWiz, plus the 10 PWM ports on the KL25Z, so you get 24 new PWM ports.  Hopefully that'll be plenty!

 

If things are still tight (seems unlikely now, but just in case), you could consider whether you need the fan and gear motor on PWM.  I'd say definitely do keep the shaker on PWM.  Speed control there is definitely noticeable.  I'm not sure it would make a noticeable difference for the gear motor or fan, though, even though the DOF config does use varying intensities for those.

[gtxjoe]

Just a side comment -

It was my understanding that DOF does use PWM on contactors for simulating standup target hits and drop targets

[arngrim]

depends how you config the target and drop target values in port assignment tab of configtool, by default it is 60 i48 with is not pwm

[vampirolatino2]

Thank you guys!!! When times come I will be making a thread for guidance. great stuff to know so far!

depends how you config the target and drop target values in port assignment tab of configtool, by default it is 60 i48 with is not pwm

 

One quick question arngrim, those (new to me) 10 bumper from the selection menu ... are different from the 8? Wish 2 I need to complete the 10 contactors?. 10 is the limit right?

 

Thanks in advance!

[mjr]

Just a side comment -

It was my understanding that DOF does use PWM on contactors for simulating standup target hits and drop targets

 

Hmm, just looked, and I guess it can, although the defaults are 100% on ("48" in LedWiz terms).  I'm skeptical that you'd ever want to set any different intensity with contactors.  The thunk that they make doesn't come directly from the solenoid force but from the switching mechanism flipping states.  I don't think you'd be able to modulate the noisemaking effect by varying the voltage or PWM duty cycle - I think if you try different PWM levels, you'll find that there's a zone above which they always trip, below which they never trip, and a gray area in between where they sometimes trip and sometimes don't.  I don't think you'd see any difference in the noise level once you're above that threshold level.  I guess you do see a difference below that in that they go completely silent.

 

If you have solenoids, though, you might well be able to modulate the noise level via PWM.  Maybe that's why the DOF tool gives you the option but defaults it to 100% - they figure most people have contactors and so just want a binary on/off here, but some people might have other devices where the level matters.

[vampirolatino2]

I think my contactors only work with on and off. If I apply lees power is less noise ofc, but to graduate like mjr said is unnecessary in my configuration/toys I have. But is good to know options are available. Love it!

[mjr]

Two software updates:

 

First, there's a new version of the Pinscape Controller software on mbed (http://developer.mbe...r/wiki/Homepage).  This has a new config.h option for turning off the joystick, for anyone who wants to use this purely for the output device control (LedWiz emulation).  That'll make it easier if you want to have two KL25Zs in your system - you can turn off the joystick features on the second one to avoid having the second joystick show up on Windows and create confusion there.  It also fixes the design problem in the original "Launch Ball" feature where holding the plunger in would only give you a momentary Launch Ball press - that was problematic for tables like Championship Pub where the amount of time you hold the button matters.  It will now keep the button pressed as long as you keep pushing on the plunger.

 

Second, I think I've finally solved the ongoing headache of how to deal with tables where the plunger scripts don't know about the analog plunger.  The solution I came up with is to make VP's plunger better - good enough that we cab builders can just go into non-working tables and excise all of the impenetrable scripting code and drop in a regular VP plunger object instead.  I think I've even made it good enough that table designers might stop feeling the need to use their own scripts in the first place, so hopefully in time tables will all just work when we download them.

 

Check out my new thread in the Visual Pinball forum: http://www.vpforums....showtopic=30971.  

 

If you pull that testing version of VP, here's my new recipe for fixing a table with a non-working plunger:

 

1.  Open the table in the VP editor.

2.  Open the table's script.  Search for "plunger".  If you see a section like "So and so's plunger hack", delete it all.  If you see anything involving timers in the KeyDown or KeyUp code related to the PlungerKey, delete it.

3.  Import one of the texture maps that came with the VP test version (choose one that fits the table style if you want).

4.  If the table already has a real plunger object positioned at the right spot, make it visible, make it Mech Enabled, set its type to Custom, set the Image to the texture you imported.  If the table doesn't have a plunger, create one and do all these same things with it, and make sure it's positioned properly.

5.  If the table had a plunger that was positioned off-screen or so that it couldn't hit the ball, move it to the real plunger position.

 

It's still not a fully mechanical a recipe, I know.  Ideally this is something where VP could have a button labeled "fix this table's plunger", and the software would just do it without any human intervention.  But I've fixed several tables with this recipe now, and so far it's been pretty easy - much easier than when I was trying to decipher every table's script to figure out how to fix it.  The only part that takes some work is identifying the plunger scripting code, but the only thing you have to do when you find it is delete it.  No need to understand what it was doing.

Edited by mjr, 28 March 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[vampirolatino2]

mjr forgot to mention that I got the package from mouser yesterday. I'm amazed how well packed it is. The attention to details and care is out of this world .. they have won a loyal customer. Wow!!

 

Haven't got time to play with the stuff, but I tested the slide potentiometer and can tell that pin 3 is the p3v3, pin 1 is the "wiper" GND and pin 2 is ptb0. This slider have 6 connections: 2' and 2, 1' and 1, and at the other end 3 and 3'

 

Will post picture later just so the peps looking for this can have a visual example.

 

edit: fix information

Edited by vampirolatino2, 02 April 2015 - 10:02 PM.

[vampirolatino2]

Just an update: This is the potentiometer that i have: http://www.mouser.co...4/PTF-38167.pdf

Sturdy and very well made. Have double resistors. Slides like butter. Precise readings.

 

Test it and works PERFECT with the programing of mjr.

 

Cheers

Edited by vampirolatino2, 02 April 2015 - 10:03 PM.

[mjr]

Just an update: This is the potentiometer that i have: http://www.mouser.co...4/PTF-38167.pdf

Sturdy and very well made. Have double resistors. Slides like butter. Precise readings.

 

Thanks for mentioning it!  I'll add it to the build guide as a known working model.

 

[Edit:]  Looks like that data sheet covers a whole bunch of variations.  Do you know the specific model number for yours?  One of the PTF01-???-103-B2 (100mm travel, 10K linear taper) types, I imagine.

Edited by mjr, 03 April 2015 - 03:33 AM.