834 replies to this topic

[jpsalas]

I was playing with the new rubber object, and I thought about to use the rubber to make a slingshot, and here is the result.

It uses a emk from FP for the hammer, and a few rubbers to make the animation.

 

[fuzzel]

wow that looks cool

[Les73gTx]

I just want to add my two cents about the ball spin in the updated physics. I've previously said that the ball spin is perhaps too much and it was suggested that I can always change the table friction to modify. That's all fine but I also did some more real world testing across two tables that a mate just purchased.
 
He had a reasonable condition Playboy 78 and a really tired Stringray. What I thought was interesting is that the Stringray had crazy ball spin and would also do a few extra moves as it spun against the very worn grooves around some play field lights. Other than the extra movement around the grooves I felt that the spin on the Stingray was very similar to the new physics default spin. The Playboy however was much more subtle as the condition of the table was much better but by no means near a new table. These observations were consistent throughout the evening of playing both tables.
 
The vp physmod which I gather is being incorporated into vp10 seems to have default ball spin set like the tired Stringray machine which is great for that sort of old tired table but not for a new or good condition table. Given that the majority of table releases are released as 'new tables' or at least very good condition it would seem to make sense to have the 'default' spin being more in line with a good condition table.  If people want more spin to reflect a worn or tired table then they could adjust the table surface to suit. Otherwise we have default ball spin on what looks like good tables acting like a bad table. 
 
Hope that makes sense and hopefully the default ball spin behaviour is dialled back a bit to accommodate these real-world observations.

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I was able to play 2 different New tables on Friday ... and about 6 more older one too ... Stern Star Trek that was less than 3 months old and a week old Stern Mustang table.... I think that ball spin in the Physics 5 mod could be more for these 2 tables compared to the real table. I also got to play JJP Wizard of Oz and the ball spin on that table was not as noticeable as the Stern tables but about the same as the default VP PM5.
There were a few other table that were older that I really noticed ball enough to say "Wow is there a magnet under there" but most tables had very little ball spin.
So i believe that it will be up to each table author to make the Physics per table based on the real table they are recreating ... I would hope that the authors have at least played the real table they are recreating at least once

[arngrim]

is it the place to discuss about the new requirements?

 

I was playing with the drop ball functionality in the debug mode of vp, it is nice, but we need a way to destroy balls.

 

If i add a ball, what do i do with the current one? one of those will drain and the table will think there none in the playfield, so i won't be able to try to trigger what i want.

 

Can we think that if i drop a ball, it destroys the current one, then the functionality will be much more useful

[fuzzel]

You can destroy a ball by right clicking on it.

[arngrim]

ah great, i will try

[fuzzel]

Btw this works in VP9.9 already

[arngrim]

yeah that is to use on vp 9.9
i asked that question that time but i don't recall having seen an answer

[fuzzel]

just a small sign of progress on this topic. The old fixed function pipeline is nearly gone. We have changed 80-90% of the elements to use shaders now. Another big change is the lighting, it's totaly rewritten and I guess you will like it. Making nights mods is going to be very easy

[dark]

just a small sign of progress on this topic. The old fixed function pipeline is nearly gone. We have changed 80-90% of the elements to use shaders now. Another big change is the lighting, it's totaly rewritten and I guess you will like it. Making nights mods is going to be very easy

 

Would it be possible to see a demonstration of the new lighting at some point?  I'd be interested to see it.

[toxie]

i also have some more things that i wanna include, then i guess we can show off some stuff..

it might be a bit different from the very simple (but also rather ugly and outdated) lighting and material model in VP9 when you first use it to build tables, but it should make things look much more realistic in the end (and maybe even simpler if you get used to it).

[fuzzel]

sure there will be demo/beta version of all the new things (keep in mind you all are our QA)

[dark]

Quality Assurance expert reporting for duty.

[FreeMason]

Maybe a silly question... but i wonder if playing "old" vp9 games in VP10 would give a perfomance boost for people with fast GFXcard because so much is GPU dependent in VP10 instead of CPU.

[fuzzel]

Yes and no You can't play VP9 tables in VP10 anymore. In VP10 a lot of things are different and not compatible anymore (e.g. ball, light inserts/bulbs, physics, global lighting, materials just to name a few). You can load a VP9 table into VP10 but you will get errors if your try to start a VP9 table in VP10 or it just plays horrible

But the speed will improve because we move away from the old fixed function pipeline of DX7/DX9 and do all render stuff with shaders.

Edited by fuzzel, 09 September 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[FreeMason]

Thank you for that ultra-fast respons. So... this will quite a migration for all tables from VP9 to VP10. Like VP8 to VP9. I just hope we do not lose even more tables since a lot of VP8 tables never made it to VP9.

[fuzzel]

Well I think a lot of VP8 tables were never converted to VP9 because of poor resources. I've never really played the old VP8 tables because I don't like the graphics. Maybe it will be easier to port VP8 tables to VP10 because we can improve the images in some way. You can do a lot of great stuff with shaders but no miracles.

[gStAv]

great news with the new shaders! Can't wait!

 

I have no problems with vp10 not being compatible with vp9 as you can set up the FE to start correct version of the vp for any table. easy as pie!

No reason to hold back for old tables. - Wax on! Wax off! 

[FreeMason]

great news with the new shaders! Can't wait!
 
I have no problems with vp10 not being compatible with vp9 as you can set up the FE to start correct version of the vp for any table. easy as pie!
No reason to hold back for old tables. - Wax on! Wax off!

I have no problems VP10 being not compatible either but you know... it's like what you don't know you don't miss. When i saw VP9 tables being so much better as the VP8 tables I never played a VP8 table again! I just hope all the authors of the tables convert them!

[toxie]

The changes from VP9 to VP10 are more dramatic than the transition from VP8 to VP9 though.

At least in VP9 most of the old VP8 tables could still be somehow played and looked more or less correct.

 

In VP10 a lot of stuff changed (and will change), so some tables will just look horrible and/or throw script errors when run. The huge benefit though is that the rendering will (hopefully) look much much better, the way to setup the lighting, materials and textures for a table will be way simpler, and of course the physics will be much improved.

But it will require to rethink a few things when making a table (again, hopefully in a good way and less complicated for beginners).