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Stern makeing light games for home use


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#21 KloggMonkey

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 06:53 PM

QUOTE
Arcades are gone. People hardly play pinball at the bar, Expos are dying, and there is one company left making them (barely it seems). I think we need to get over it. They are a wonderful piece of human history.


Sad but true.

The future of pinball lies in the hands of the collectors. Nobody else seems to care or miss it.
on that note I can't wait to see Special When Lit


#22 lettuce

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 06:57 PM

but WHY is pinball not popular anymore, what has changed, home consoles?, lack of arcades?

#23 TheMcD

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 07:05 PM

So apparently, pinball dying is a good thing now? Is this the consensus in the community? Is STERN nothing but a disgrace to pinballing?

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#24 Rawd

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE (TheMcD @ May 29 2010, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So apparently, pinball dying is a good thing now? Is this the consensus in the community? Is STERN nothing but a disgrace to pinballing?

The McD


I think you took my comment the wrong way. There is nothing good about anything dying, but it happens. I think that their new Costco Batman is a disgrace, yes.



 


#25 TheMcD

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 07:15 PM

If I'm reading this correctly, you would rather see the death of pinball than STERN continuing with this measure. However, it seems that STERN will very probably not stop cutting costs.

Therefore, I figure what I figured. If I read that wrong I apologize. I still stand by my question, though: Is the death of pinball better than what is happening now?

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#26 Shockman

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 07:36 PM

With the last manufacturer brain dead, yes, pull the plug.

It would be better for a complete and 'Noble', as Rawd called it, death, in my opinion, than for it to go the way of Stern seeing how much less they can put into it, at virtually the same retail, and a greater profit.

If it becomes something 'cheap' in the end, then that's how history will record it, as something cheap.

#27 KloggMonkey

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 07:48 PM

It seems like everything is cheap nowadays from cars, video games, or the service from the guy flipping your burger.
They don't make em' like they used to. Even in my short life. I hate to think what older people think about how standards have decreased over time.

QUOTE
but WHY is pinball not popular anymore, what has changed, home consoles?, lack of arcades?


Figure this one out and lets go into business




#28 Rawd

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE (KloggMonkey @ May 29 2010, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
on that note I can't wait to see Special When Lit


Thanks, I had not heard of this before! (not sure why)..

Here is the trailer incase others have not seen this...



The ending is frickin hilarious.


 


#29 Practicedummy

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 09:06 PM

As long as WE know the difference, it won't hurt anything will it? biggrin.gif

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#30 diskoboy

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 09:07 PM

Meh...

Wake me up when there's a 24 Lite.
Pinball players do it by flipping their balls.

#31 ravenriser

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 09:36 PM

I for one am very glad that STERN is still around.

However, I'm not sure having just one pinball manufacturer in the world means much. Most of us here at the VP forums are playing old pinball from the 60's through to the 90's..speaking for myself I could care less if STERN puts out a new pinball machine once every 3 years.

Pinball unfortunately is all about the awesome tables of the past not of the present. Sad but true.

#32 humid

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 10:09 PM

When Chrysler was hitting bottom they released the K-car, and then required government loans to save them. Some thought they were down for the count
Then the mini-van saved their butt.

Though I don't think they should mislead potential buyers, at least Stern is searching for possible solutions to their shrinking market.

And it is about marketing. A few commercials showing Downey Jr playing the Ironman game would at least put pinball in peoples minds a bit more.

IMO Stern has been too non aggressive in finding ways to hype their product. Just sticking this Batman table in a store isn't going to generate the 'need it factor' that sells a toy.
I tawt I gawt a weepway

#33 Shockman

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 10:46 PM

Well after reading that they are misleading people to think they are buying The arcade version, I hope they sink and loose all their money including personal assets in the process.

#34 Practicedummy

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 10:54 PM

Stern actually stated that this is a home version. I think people would know that it isn't of the same caliber as the arcade version.

I could have been smart, but I never learned anything by being smart!

 

 


#35 Shockman

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:39 PM

QUOTE (Practicedummy @ May 29 2010, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stern actually stated that this is a home version. I think people would know that it isn't of the same caliber as the arcade version.


Where did they state that? How would people not know that it was not the same as the arcade version? Stern is selling these at Costco, where they would be bought on an impulse.

QUOTE
It remains to be seen whether the $700+tax difference is enough to sway a purchasing decision but many potential buyers will be unaware the game is a feature-lite version which could lead to future disappointment and confusion when the time comes to sell it. Certainly the wording on the point-of-sale documentation - phrases such as "authentic arcade unit" and "official Dark Knight game" - could lead purchasers to believe this is the same machine found in arcades.


I'm not saying they should spend the rest of their lives in jail, but I think they should be sued for saying that. It's a damn lie designed to swindle.

#36 Practicedummy

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:53 PM

My mistake, I read the last part of the last paragraph and you are right Shockman. I usually tune out of the last part of any news report as it is usually just final statement filler material and not relevant to the story at hand. This is one of the exceptions. biggrin.gif

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#37 destruk

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 04:30 AM

So even one playfield toy is too many now? Oh wait, the crane is still there.

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#38 Liteuser

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 04:41 AM

BATMAN Lite ... think.gif

I think I like the sound of that, but don't know why? tongue.gif rofl.gif

I think that I would have to play the table first before I judge it. wink.gif

#39 rob046

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 05:18 AM

This really pisses me off.
You know when you are a kid, and you think that all adults and businessmen in suits have got to be really smart, & that one day, if you are really really lucky, you might get as smart as them. Then, if you have half a brain like I do, you become an adult, & somewhere in maybe your mid 20's or later (or sooner) you realise that many of the millionaires and billionaires driving companies into the ground are downright stupid.

What do I have to do to inherit the Stern factory? I don't have a degree in business or anything like that, but I'm not stupid, and these days just not being retarded when running a company is a great start! I have ideas that at the very least wouldn't net any worse results than what Stern is doing right now. & I actually care about pinball, & often times take moments to think about what would keep pinball alive & ticking. About what would make a pinball company flourish to the best of its ability.
& I know enough that I wouldn't rely on my own ideas, I think the key to running a good pinball company is surrounding yourself with other people who are good at what they do, and care, and then you listen to their ideas & opinions as well.
I swear, there is enough talent in the VP community to run a pinball company better than Stern. Here, we have business savvy people, great artists, amazing designers, 3d modelers, the pinmame team, & hundreds of people who know what they like & don't like, and aren't afraid to let it be known.

So what irk's me the most is knowing that the passion & talent to keep pinball alive is out there, but it isn't being utilized in the real pinball world (Stern). Guys like Steve Richie, which I'm sure most people read the interview he did here, are out there looking for work, a freakin' pinball genious, yet Stern somehow thinks that they have better guys.....or do they just not want to pay up to get the real talent? IMHO, pay up, its worth it. How great would it be to startup a pinball company, & hiring guys like that to get the job done, & maybe have the younger bucks learn a thing or two.

That aside, just look at some of the best VP & FP originals out there, I think that shows that there is a passion and talent right here to keep pinball alive & ever evolving, while also remembering the basics that make pinball great. I also think of some of Eala's originals when I ponder about the creativity that real pins could use these days (& certain other authors as well, but for whatever reason he comes to mind 1st), the way he can blend the great things about older pins & merge that with some of the things that make more modern pins great, while at the same time not sacrificing any creativity & uniqueness.

I don't know whats gonna happen with Stern, but if they do go under, I can only hope that somebody that really gives a damn about pinball gets a shot at running a real pin company. & I hope its soon, cuz once so many years pass of crappy pins, or no pins, there will eventually be a "point of no return" to where pins as we know them might be dead forever. But right now, there is a big enough market out there to keep pinball afloat, & it might even thrive as pinball no longer has to compete with video games they way it used to. Everybody plays their video games at home now, & I don't see that changing. But real tangible pinball, if done right, should be becoming the main "on route" game once again.
Cuz new pins on route are the 1 game that you can be sure that 99.9% of that population does not have in their home. I own a handful of pins myself, but even I love to go out & play the latest Stern's even though I don't like 'em that much, just because its something different than what I have at home (& more expensive than I can afford).

I feel pinball trying to make a comeback right now, but I fear there is lack of fuel to make that comeback. But more & more I am seeing pinball in pop culture, on TV, in movies. & I think the reason for it is for the same reason I just mentioned. Cuz people will always love having fun with gravity. & having a big mechanical, tangible game is no longer f**ked out like it got in the early 80's, where people at that time got overloaded with pinball, as there were no video games.
Then video games were the "new" thing for years. But now video games are as common as watching a TV & are a double click away on your computer, not such a novelty anymore. They aren't going anywhere, but they have a new home, in the home, and I'm fine with that as it makes video games one thing, and pinball a completely different thing, where back in the early 80's it was all meshed in together. Yet despite this, pinball made a triumphant return in the 90's that lasted a handful of years.

So its been done before, in even harsher circumstances, and the events of the 90's are part of why I still have hope for the future. But that comeback only worked because the pins were awesome, well thought out, & made by really talented people who clearly put a lot of time in on many of those titles. Pins like Stern's 24, I'm sorry, are not gonna become the new TAF, gotta do a little better than that! Stern, in a decade, hasn't made any pins as good as a number of the better 90's pins.
Anyhow, so the market has changed a bit in how it works, but its still there.

As for this whole "pinballl lite" idea. It has been tried before, and it has severely failed before. Not only is it a bad idea, but the fact that they are simply stripping down an existing table that people actually like, that makes it even worse. It makes me think they are just lazy, or afraid to do this right, afraid to go all in on the idea. Yet the price tag is still higher than what I could pay for a like new TZ or many other like new Bally/WMS classics from the 90's that are better tables to begin with.
So who is gonna buy this crap?

If you are gonna try something like this, I'd suggest that for home use they make a completely new table, new theme, new layout than anything else that is out. That way people can't pick apart & complain about what you stripped from a perfectly good full version of the table, cuz that is the full version. Go ahead & cut costs, make a good playing table that just has a couple less gimmicks on it, get that price tag down to about $2500 or less, then I might actually want to buy one. But it needs to still feel like a full pinball table.

That is the way I'd do it, if I had to do it. But if it were up to me, I'd focus more on getting the price down on the regular pins, & increase sales by selling a few more units thanks to the cost cut. Do they understand that they still need to compete with many of the 90's Bally's out there that are still nearly good as new? Either that or don't cut costs at all, but focus on making better tables. You gotta go one way or the other to keep things afloat over there. Maybe even have to spend a little more money for a while to eventually make more money. CRAZY AS IT SOUNDS, it just might work! There is a lot they can do to bring pinball into this newest generation & new decade, & I'm amazed of the things they haven't even tried yet.

#40 Shockman

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 06:13 AM

I don't understand 'on route' and I disagree that there is a big enough market for it to thrive.
I agree that they should do this crap with unique titles instead raping existing ones.

The rest sounds like circles. You say "But right now, there is a big enough market out there to keep pinball afloat, & it might even thrive as pinball no longer has to compete with video games they way it used to."
Then go on to say "I feel pinball trying to make a comeback right now, but I fear there is lack of fuel to make that comeback."

The market is the fuel.

I don't think Stern is trying for a come back. I think they are trying for a quick buck before they close their doors. I can't think of a single reason that they would think that this is a business model, either good, bad, or worth a try. It's not a business model. It's a scam that usually has a fly by night company running off in the afternoon.