136 replies to this topic

[Shockman]

Well Like I said, it has got to be fudged.

Damn, I should have saved the table so I could attach it.

Believe it or not, those pops in the back, the bottoms are 100 units above the playfield. They are sitting on round walls to match the base. Custom Pops can be made any height, these are standard ones though. The back wall is also 100 units high, and the side on the left of the shooter lane is a ramp coming down to the standard 50 unit mid section. The slings are only 20 units tall. and the flippers are on a surface below the playfield 29 units deep (this only to erase the sides while keeping depth). They look and work perfectly well like that.

After the build I skewed the image to make it a rectangle. I forgot what I had the incline and FOV set at, but it was set to have the closest to a rectangle, and the shallowest view possible. I just threw it together. I have started afterward to convert Mr. & Mrs. PAC-MAN to this perspective, but that is going to take a long time. The back has barely any depth even at 4/3. I did the back walls and one POP, and two banks of targets,Twice as tall as they use to be and it does look sweet. I always thought the back needed to have more height even with 4/3.

I'm not out to prove anything, (other than that you are never going to get this effect with simple settings.) certainly not that it is easy, but I just wanted to see if it was possible.

As a FS VP table it was not quite a perfect rectangle. And to tell the truth, I have no idea how these FS tables are perfect rectangles while still using standard elements with anything other than a straight down view, but today is the first day I have played around with FS tables in VP9. Perhaps someone could riddle me that.

A better VP FS or FP Arcade build would simply have redesigned flipper to a top down view. We can easily set the height of each element higher as we build up. A perfect VP FS or FP Arcade render build would have a flipper pivot function AND scale height automatically as they already do with the ball. It's not a rebuild I want, it the changing of some numbers.

I will throw together another example tomorrow and post the .VPT But I will be doing nothing more than what I have explained here. Instead of a wall though I will use a pop shaft without a cap on bottom and a pop with a cap on top. because I did not go to the trouble of putting slings on the wall.

[Gravy]

The VP implementation probably needs its own thread Shockman, even though its related I think some people are going to get confused if we lump it all together in this FP thread.

[Shockman]

I understand.
It's not a VP issue though. I just used VP to show what I was talking about.
I'll move any further discussion out though, because I don't think FP had the flexibility to handle this.

You can split this thread if you want to.

[Gravy]

I understand.
It's not a VP issue though. I just used VP to show what I was talking about.
I'll move any further discussion out though, because I don't think FP had the flexibility to handle this.

You can split this thread if you want to.

Did you happen to see the thread where I posted a mockup of a keystoned and perspective corrected FP table sample? Rawd and I were discussing it last year on the FP forums and trying to come up with what angle worked best on his Cab. I'll see if I can find the thread where I reposted the image.

Edit: here it is http://www.vpforums....?showtopic=5878

Edited by Gravy, 03 May 2010 - 11:02 AM.

[Rawd]

And here is a comparison gif that I made...

I think I know what shockman is getting at though. Not sure if angle, target and stretch will be able to achieve this...




I will keep messing around with the settings later today.

[Shockman]

Thanks Gravy.

Interesting stuff. VP is the opposite of FP in this respect. It would be easier to fudge VP, and easier for FP to just support it. It's hard to believe that any effort was made at all to FP to create full screen tables without doing it right.
The only reason I don't use FP, besides the physics, and the intrusion of the stain on the monitor, is because he limits things like this to what he considers realistic values at the same time forcing unrealistic results. Something has got to give though. VP gives unrealistic results as well, but has the flexibility to overcome anything.

That one screen shot over there looks about perfect though. Is that the 'mock up' you mentioned? What do you mean by mock up? Is it a shopped image?

And here is a comparison gif that I made...

I think I know what shockman is getting at though. Not sure if angle, target and stretch will be able to achieve this...


I will keep messing around with the settings later today.

I doubt it. Not at the same time as using standard elements. Maybe if you used slanted tall captures and made them animate along with invisible mechanisms. It's easy to demo, but hard to make a recreation that way.

[Rawd]

I made a simple perspective demo table that you can use for testing if you want. I'm sure any of you could have made this yourself, but here it is ready anyways...

http://rapidshare.co...ective.fpt.html

[Rawd]

Camera Y and Z seem to do the same thing?

Target Y, and Z seem to just change the center of where the table is stretched out from.

None of the settings make it possible for a keystone perspective.

Oh well.. At least we can change the angle and lighting to our liking now.

[bigraceusa]

Want to say big thanks to you Rawd!

Your work save me weeks of work to resize every table!

That's fantastic, it is so easy.

Works with regedit in Windows 7 64 too for all they don't test it.

Thanks, thanks, thanks that's all I can say to you.

This thread should become a sticky for all users the come and search for this.

[Rawd]

I knew you would like this option BigraceUSA, to fix all of your aprons.

Here is what UncleWilly was talking about...

Regular 3 Angels:



Changed to '14a' angle, and '0' lighting Y. :



When the flashers light up, the whole table lights up beautifully. It is too dark for other tables though.. Can anyone figure out a way to change the registry setting per table?

[bigraceusa]

Lights must I test a little bit... I find dark is better. Not too dark of couse

Rawd, with your changing it looks more realistic, with yours and my it looks perfect

With my changing of the table:

By kdld3500 at 2010-05-03

With your changing and my changing of the table:


It's not a fix to make it fast, but it easier (and with that faster) after changing with your solution and it looks much better now.
Want to say big thanks again Rawd, with your help much of us find the way to make our pinball play to a great thing.

Here is how I made it
http://www.vpforums....?showtopic=6639

Edited by bigraceusa, 03 May 2010 - 10:06 PM.

[Rawd]

Looks great. I think that the water tower looks a little bit too short now, but that is the problem with tall models in this view.


Have fun!

[Gravy]

Shockman, yeah the mockup FP image of Stern Galaxy was shopped. Basically I took a screenshot of a slanted table and then applied keystone distortion to it.

One important thing to remember is that in order for the perspective to look correct, objects towards the sides of the table should appear to lean outwards when viewed from right above, this is then corrected visually by your eye when viewed on a cab. Have a look at bumper 1 in the sample image in the link to the other thread and you will see what I mean. Im thinking that even if we could get the graded perspective from bottom to top using the regedit method, we are probably not going to get that "leaning outwards" effect that is ultimately required.

Still, Rawds discovery is fantastic, and has likely fixed the arcade lighting bug that has been a problem until now. Simplyus should be happy I think.

[Rawd]

Does anyone else find it odd... That all of these questions were asked (lighting, angle) in the old FP forum, and Chris didn't say a word? It was this easy all along.. Makes me shake my head in wonder.

It is almost as if he hated us all. lol.

[Gravy]

Does anyone else find it odd... That all of these questions were asked (lighting, angle) in the old FP forum, and Chris didn't say a word? It was this easy all along.. Makes me shake my head in wonder.

It is almost as if he hated us all. lol.

Yep... particulary the lighting fix. Although in Black's defense he was likely under some NDA as he went very quiet for a long time. I dont think we were really asking about how to change the angle though, more the variable perspective/keystone thing, at least thats how I recall it. Shame all those forum posts are not accessible. I wish he could of just closed the forum to new posts rather than delete it alltogether, at least then we wouldnt have to keep repeating ourselves here.

I did find it infuriatingly frustrating though, particulary when he didnt even bother responding to PM's without so much as a "cant discuss it sorry". I sent him quite a bit of info about headtracking technologies etc and never heard a peep from him, which led me to believe he was working on something similar himself.

[bigraceusa]

Looks great. I think that the water tower looks a little bit too short now, but that is the problem with tall models in this view.


Have fun!

It looks not the same as before, but it is ok for me.
The complete table is now more in a "real pinball viewing angle" - I have lot's of videos from real machines on the hard disk and show me side by side a screenshot and the video. After your changing it looks better now. Thank's.

Rawd, You have Triple Strike in original and FP - after looking a video of your original table in a other video I would say - it must be better now. The bumpers in left and right side of the flippers are now in a better angle (before it looks so I lay my eyes on the table and look under it).

Edited by bigraceusa, 04 May 2010 - 06:36 AM.

[Dazz]

Wow awesome find Rawd. I just tested out BoP with this and damn it looks much better. The egg shaped ball was driving me crazy and just didn't look right. I changed to 10a and it just makes everything look better.

Too bad this doesn't fix the floaty physics engine of FP.

Thanks!

[Guus]

Great find! The ArcadeRender finally fixed!

Only 1 small thing, If I want to the the right "Scale". Scale on 1:1, then it doesn't completely fit the screen.

Thanks for sharing! For me does it make the ArcadeRender usable for the first time.

[bent98]

any way to darken table up a little after making those 2 adjustments in the reg? I used the lighting setting and arcade render z setting Rawd recommended but on some tables like Astro Blast it still looks a little too light for my taste.

[Rawd]

any way to darken table up a little after making those 2 adjustments in the reg? I used the lighting setting and arcade render z setting Rawd recommended but on some tables like Astro Blast it still looks a little too light for my taste.

Mess with the lighting 'y' value, until you find something satisfactory.