78 replies to this topic

[bigus1]

What "some" people are not getting is that there is this new flash website out there where none of this matters. But even they acknowledge the authors at least. I think that's the proper thing to do always, but the permission part is obsolete. You can stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and go la la la, but that's the reality.

Giving me a hard time doesn't seem to be a sensible way to proceed. This stuff was already out there, but at least I can update it now.

[hauntfreaks]

LOL.... any of us that matter know all about that fella.... and like any pest he will be exterminated at some point.... he's not the first to pull that stunt... and wont be the last
oh wait... i just noticed, your also from the same place as that roach.... hhhmmm....a kawinkidink? 

oh and I wasn't pointing fingers in my last post.... that was all a blanket statement 

EDIT:
I want everyone that has ever worked with me, or i worked with you, also the followers of my work and work I have done for others, players, content guys, coders, and the true guys that make this hobby what it is....
please read this over and over in your head, read it to your spawn, your partners, your parents.... take their replies, there reactions, and there facial expressions.... into your heart... you will know what needs to be done, and do it
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Bigus1, on 10 Jun - 04:32AM, said:

there is this new flash website out there where none of this matters. But even they acknowledge the authors at least. I think that's the proper thing to do always, but the permission part is obsolete. You can stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and go la la la, but that's the reality.

Edited by hauntfreaks, 10 June 2021 - 09:42 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

If they want to make a pink version with flowers and fuzzy dice, uh just dont send me a copy
Actually, if you do that, it's totally ok to strip my name from it (Please, i dont want the blame for that)

I hear you loud and clear

Legally Blonde mod of Heavy Metal on the way!

 

 

Yup, just remember to delete my name from the script and everything
I definitely dont want the blame for that

[remdwaas1986]

Bigus1, you have to understand that you do a lot for the community. And yes we don't see the invisible parts always, but you always do a great job on the lightning, your better in that then me, so take also your complements.

But like discus in this topic:

Passing the baton - Pinball Discussion Forum - VPForums.org

If somebody don't want you to mod the table, then just don't do it out of respect to each other. Or do it and keep it for yourself. Also the rules are there not for nothing, and it's up to the admin to act on those rules he made. Also like I said before, I would be happy if you look at the tables I made and make the lightning better where possible, but don't upload it as your own table. I will update the table and thank you in the update.

You give back to the community, but just do it with respect.  

[bigus1]

Getting a bit defensive there hauntfreaks. You don't matter to me mate. You're just another anonymous, faceless avatar like the rest of us, who puts his backing behind a website that only exists to shit on this one, and yet feels entitled to come here and abuse me. Talking tough won't change a goddam thing. I've been messing around with this stuff since it was invented and I can't recall seeing any other website of substance previously appear, as any kind of worthwhile destination for content, that matches the new one. I'd love to know how it will be exterminated. Wishful thinking?  My wife can't understand why I don't sign-up there and be done with all the hassles. Wishful thinking on my part maybe? One day I might, but probably not until I've lost hope that attitudes can evolve to keep pace with the changing environment.

As was highlighted, the leeches don't give a rats about anything but free content and will go wherever it's easy to obtain. There's no loyalty. We've all been there. And I've certainly noticed the slump in activity of late on the old-school sites. Guess where all the action has gone. Oh well, let's just do nothing - I'm sure it will all go away.

 

This mod and STTNG were both authorized and were published for a year at a site that disappeared. Not my fault. I'm only active here now.

[Knorr]

Getting a bit defensive there hauntfreaks. You don't matter to me mate. You're just another anonymous, faceless avatar like the rest of us, who puts his backing behind a website that only exists to shit on this one, and yet feels entitled to come here and abuse me. Talking tough won't change a goddam thing. I've been messing around with this stuff since it was invented and I can't recall seeing any other website of substance previously appear, as any kind of worthwhile destination for content, that matches the new one. I'd love to know how it will be exterminated. Wishful thinking?  My wife can't understand why I don't sign-up there and be done with all the hassles. Wishful thinking on my part maybe? One day I might, but probably not until I've lost hope that attitudes can evolve to keep pace with the changing environment.
As was highlighted, the leeches don't give a rats about anything but free content and will go wherever it's easy to obtain. There's no loyalty. We've all been there. And I've certainly noticed the slump in activity of late on the old-school sites. Guess where all the action has gone. Oh well, let's just do nothing - I'm sure it will all go away.
 
This mod and STTNG were both authorized and were published for a year at a site that disappeared. Not my fault. I'm only active here now.

I gave you permission to upload the file to vpinball. This was the only thing I wanted. You messaged me here if you can upload the table. I answered - no, not at the moment. You choose to do so anyway. No respect here. I treated you well every time. But i know a solution to this. I will discuss this with Paul later when I have time....

Edited by Knorr, 10 June 2021 - 12:49 PM.

[bigus1]

You were indeed gracious toward me and I did what you asked, but I feel that it is unfair to revoke permission after this long and for no reason involving the table. I was really not expecting it. I saw you were online and thought it a courtesy to ask. You do whatever you think is fair, but the tables were already at the other place, and I had nothing to do with that. I'd rather have your blessing to keep evolving this mod.

[hauntfreaks]

You were indeed gracious toward me and I did what you asked, but I feel that it is unfair to revoke permission after this long and for no reason involving the table. I was really not expecting it. I saw you were online and thought it a courtesy to ask. You do whatever you think is fair, but the tables were already at the other place, and I had nothing to do with that. I'd rather have your blessing to keep evolving this mod.

 

ok ok... I see the deal now.... Knorr as the original recreater of the table ask to have the say of where his recreation would be shared.... this is a not only a very common request but goes hand in hand with OK to MOD or NOT to MOD.... all this is simple VP etiquette, the same as you wouldnt go to someone's house for dinner and put your feet up on there dining room table... its called having a little class

as for you having carte blanche at the old site, I'll have to call Jason and see what he has to say.... 

[Noah Fentz]

 

You were indeed gracious toward me and I did what you asked, but I feel that it is unfair to revoke permission after this long and for no reason involving the table. I was really not expecting it. I saw you were online and thought it a courtesy to ask. You do whatever you think is fair, but the tables were already at the other place, and I had nothing to do with that. I'd rather have your blessing to keep evolving this mod.

 

ok ok... I see the deal now.... Knorr as the original recreater of the table ask to have the say of where his recreation would be shared.... this is a not only a very common request but goes hand in hand with OK to MOD or NOT to MOD.... all this is simple VP etiquette, the same as you wouldnt go to someone's house for dinner and put your feet up on there dining room table... its called having a little class

as for you having carte blanche at the old site, I'll have to call Jason and see what he has to say.... 

 

 

Refusing to share here is a pretty hefty insult to me, and everyone who made what we are enjoying today possible. You think these tables would even be possible without all the work we, as a community, put in the last 12 years? Hell no. I can also guarantee every table author uses what came before them for at least reference. How insulting.

 

I support being able to request where is has to be shared, but dictating where it can't isn't a good look, in my opinion.

[hauntfreaks]

 

Refusing to share here is a pretty hefty insult to me, and everyone who made what we are enjoying today possible. You think these tables would even be possible without all the work we, as a community, put in the last 12 years? Hell no. I can also guarantee every table author uses what came before them for at least reference. How insulting.

 

I support being able to request where is has to be shared, but dictating where it can't isn't a good look, in my opinion.

 

I can see where it would feel insulting... but its all part of the recreators decisions and grand plan... I have zero clue why Knorr made this decision or will i put words in his mouth.... but one reason might be it being like the wildwest and he/others might feel what bigus is doing would appear to others to be just fine, modding and sharing willy nilly without a care in the world.... I know back in the VPB days this would not fly.... but judging by doing doing a content search thats what is going on here... someone without authority, MOVING content from one site to another without any concern or remorse, under the guise of "mods".... NOT unlike what is happening at that 100% unauthorize site, all content from every site, every creator and recreator without an ounce respect for anyone, like a child that wasnt included in the sandbox  , so he made his own sandbox, but had no toys to play in it so he went to all the other sandboxes and stole their toys, and acted like the other kids said it was ok.... 

 

[Noah Fentz]

 

 

Refusing to share here is a pretty hefty insult to me, and everyone who made what we are enjoying today possible. You think these tables would even be possible without all the work we, as a community, put in the last 12 years? Hell no. I can also guarantee every table author uses what came before them for at least reference. How insulting.

 

I support being able to request where is has to be shared, but dictating where it can't isn't a good look, in my opinion.

 

I can see where it would feel insulting... but its all part of the recreators decisions and grand plan... I have zero clue why Knorr made this decision or will i put words in his mouth.... but one reason might be it being like the wildwest and he/others might feel what bigus is doing would appear to others to be just fine, modding and sharing willy nilly without a care in the world.... I know back in the VPB days this would not fly.... but judging by doing doing a content search thats what is going on here... someone without authority, MOVING content from one site to another without any concern or remorse, under the guise of "mods".... NOT unlike what is happening at that 100% unauthorize site, all content from every site, every creator and recreator without an ounce respect for anyone, like a child that wasnt included in the sandbox  , so he made his own sandbox, but had no toys to play in it so he went to all the other sandboxes and stole their toys, and acted like the other kids said it was ok.... 

 

 

 

Well, my man, just like we discussed in PMs, not everyone will always agree ...

 

Not allowing content here is not allowing GIVING BACK to the place that made it all possible. Pretty shitty.

 

We've always been respectful, and this feels nothing but disrespectful. It's not just to me, either, but the very people that made this all possible. I was unaware of this bullshit ideology, or I would have called it out sooner. Uploading here is GIVING BACK, something that's proper etiquette in any user content created hobby. If authors can't be bothered to do that, I see no motivation to fiercely defend their 'rights' as I rightfully would under better circumstances.

 

Along the lines of your sandbox analogy, it's like someone being given bomb clones to grow their own weed, but when it's ready, they refuse to share with the person who gave them the clones. Pretty wrong, in my opinion.

[hauntfreaks]

like the internet likes to do, what it sounds like and what it really meant gets lost in translation.... 

also the sandbox analogy, was ONLY meant for describing that unauthorized site.... not here.... but i do stand behind what bigus is doing is far from how thing were always meant to be done.... in the end many recreators have the same mindset of modding and where there content is shared... this is where like we discussed not everyone will agree....  

[Noah Fentz]

like the internet likes to do, what it sounds like and what it really meant gets lost in translation.... 

also the sandbox analogy, was ONLY meant for describing that unauthorized site.... not here.... but i do stand behind what bigus is doing is far from how thing were always meant to be done.... in the end many recreators have the same mindset of modding and where there content is shared... this is where like we discussed not everyone will agree....  

 

I believe the spirit is the same. Not allowing sharing of MODs here, on this site, is simply not giving back to the place that made it all possible. Not sure how that's okay with anyone. I've been drumming on about it for months, and it seems people just don't give two shits about what's right or who it offends.

 

Bigus HAS permission to MOD these tables, has HAD permission for quite some time. Permission cannot just be rescinded like the modder's efforts simply don't matter. It's demeaning and insulting.

 

I see a lot of demeaning and insulting going on in this hobby. While it may not always be verbal, actions speak louder.

[remdwaas1986]

can we then just remove permission to MOD and make it a free to all then? But @noah what if you made a table while you have little time and put 400 hours in it and somebody does the lights and a couple of things that are not visible and upload it with pinball_my_mod_yeah, how would you feel? 

It's not about giving back to the community, it's about feeling proud to share something that you create with this awesome community, your creative mind that others enjoy. 2 people asked me to MOD my tables, that makes me proud as a content creator. But if you don't want something to get MOD, because you make it unique, then people have to respect that. 

But then again JP's tables are also used while nobody ask him, i'm maybe a newby in many eyes, but it's all a matter of respect and manners. I ask everything to everybody, waited even 6 months to get a reply to use parts from the super mario table. Once you upload it to the internet, it's gone.....

But now after multiple topics and many discussion, can we play pinball again?

 

[Noah Fentz]

can we then just remove permission to MOD and make it a free to all then? But @noah what if you made a table while you have little time and put 400 hours in it and somebody does the lights and a couple of things that are not visible and upload it with pinball_my_mod_yeah, how would you feel? 

It's not about giving back to the community, it's about feeling proud to share something that you create with this awesome community, your creative mind that others enjoy. 2 people asked me to MOD my tables, that makes me proud as a content creator. But if you don't want something to get MOD, because you make it unique, then people have to respect that. 

But then again JP's tables are also used while nobody ask him, i'm maybe a newby in many eyes, but it's all a matter of respect and manners. I ask everything to everybody, waited even 6 months to get a reply to use parts from the super mario table. Once you upload it to the internet, it's gone.....

But now after multiple topics and many discussion, can we play pinball again?

 

For me, this discussion is focused on him already having permission. I don't feel permission should be taken away, once given.

The subplot, though, is about giving back, because while it may have taken someone 400 hours, it took the people before you thousands of hours to provide references and resources. This is a 20 year old community.

Not one, single, VP9 or VPX table could be done at all without all the hard work already done before it, and it originated here, through my hard work and the work of so many other people willing to freely GIVE their hard work.

I never realized how hard it was to convey the importance and proper etiquette that giving back is. Lol

[freezy]

Not one, single, VP9 or VPX table could be done at all without all the hard work already done before it, and it originated here, through my hard work and the work of so many other people willing to freely GIVE their hard work.
 

You realize that statements like this are one of the reasons people are driven away from VPF? Please Paul, show us a little bit of modesty sometimes.

[Noah Fentz]

You realize I AM modest? I rarely ever mention it, until we're being disrespected. It shouldn't have to come to recapping what is fact. Consider it info for those who simply don't know the reality.

[freezy]

I'm only telling you what impression you make. It's irrelevant really if you think it's justified or not.

[Noah Fentz]

Should we get into the impression others are making on us? Does it matter?

 

Let me bottom line this for everyone ...

 

If you can't be bothered to give back to VPF, while obviously using base tables, resources and references from here, then don't come crying for representation in your MOD drama. We had only a small, handful of authors when we started this site, and all this "mine, mine, mine" shit does is stifle the rise of new authors. I suspect more are on the horizon if we start doing this FOR THE LOVE OF PINBALL again, instead of whatever it's turned into. It is obviously NOT what are mission here is. Here, we work together to recreate pinball, not overtly exert influence and use content as leverage over others.

 

It appears a lot of people have forgotten how they got started ... modding other people's tables.

 

Also note: I am speaking on the behalf of others, as well, not just myself, in case you really feel I'm being immodest. I couldn't have done all this alone. We worked TOGETHER.

[chepas]

 

 it's like someone being given bomb clones to grow their own weed, but when it's ready, they refuse to share with the person who gave them the clones. Pretty wrong, in my opinion.

 

 

Haha, I'm dead.