73 replies to this topic

[xenonph]

Guess we are lucky they didn't ask for the removal of all the VP Gottlieb tables too.

This would not only effect the Gottlieb rom tables, but we would lose a majority of ALL the EM tables as well.

A majority of the pinball tables made before 1980 were made by Gottlieb!!

 

We all knew how Gottlieb felt about their roms and manuals being shared amongst the pinball community, when they had IPDB remove them years ago.

We are lucky they lasted as long as they did here!!

I just hope they leave the tables alone.

This could be a slippery slope that starts down a road none of us in the pinball community want to go down.

This might even prevent table authors from updating Gottlieb rom tables to VPX.

I know I personally, will not be using a Gottlieb table for any of my mods in the future.

Nintendo also seems to be cracking down on roms and consequently a bunch of major rom sites have been shut down recently.

Coincidence?

 

Carry on.

[STAT]

I already said anywhere, worst case: we can start a Crowdfunding to fill up a Money-hungry a** ...

 

They all should know: without the awesome Work of VP and VPM Team, and hundreds of Hours of Authors Works - it is worth  n o t h i n g  !

Edited by STAT, 13 November 2018 - 09:15 AM.

[wrd1972]

Someone will probably just stick them in a torrent or on a ROM hosting site.

 

"This might even prevent table authors from updating Gottlieb rom tables to VPX."

Nope...VP10 BH is being updated right now.

[serpiko]

anyway, a little research on google, and u found the banned roms here

[STAT]

Only on Google, but not here.

[destruk]

As i said: Google: Tablename Rom ... and you will find another "Emulation Page", where you can DL Roms, which you can't find here.

And for all the "Future Gods" here: you can't Scripting it for 100%, because Sounds, and possible Images, Light ID's and so on ...

 

It's been done before - if you ever saw Black Knight 2000 by Chris that table was entirely scripted and amazing.

[Fusionwerks]

Maybe im was ignorant when i first got into this hobby, and wasn't aware of the unspoken rules about mass sharing virtual pinball stuff... but i quickly got tired of downloading a table, a backglass, a rom, a media set, etc, so I found a zip of ALL the roms early on and have never had to search for one since. (with the exception of newer Stern tables) I kind of felt like that's what everybody did, since roms really never change, but tables and backglasses do. Also i assumed they were "free" or no longer under copyright or whatever since they were hosted on sites like this.

They are still out there. In fact i just found a mega.nz site hosting a huge amount of tables, b2s, roms, color roms, and PBX media just from a simple goolge search. So... if you want it or need it, its still there, just not here...maybe it would be best to collect them all before you cant find them 

[Schlabber34]

It's not just about downloading. Without our great comunity meeting in the known forums it would be close to impossible to create new tables as easily as we do now. A lot of stuff has to be done, a lot of question have to be asked and a lot of help has to be given before a table is finished. No more browsing through table uploads with pictures and comments that makes it easy to pick the right table, just for playing it, or copy paste stuff to your own tablebuild.

Don't think that you can just open another VP site and move on like before. If they do the unthinkable, they will be scanning the net for new sites and close them too.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G955F mit Tapatalk

[batch]

There's something I don't understand

 

How many people play virtual pinballs ?

 

Between 5000 and 10000 ?

 

Do pinball manufacturers think that if we can't play virtual pinballs, we'll buy hundred pinball machines ?

 

Is this hobby really competing with pinball manufacturers ?

 

We just spend hours and days in trying to do something to share with a few other pinball lovers and manufacturers think they will lose money

 

It's sad and stupid !

[Fleep]

First, it was Laylow’s videos being pulled off.
Then, GB got pulled off.
Now Gottlieb ROMs.

This does not look too good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Fleep, 13 November 2018 - 07:32 PM.

[Schlabber34]

It's not about real machines, it's about the tables they sell on steam or on any other plattform!

Gesendet von meinem SM-G955F mit Tapatalk

[bord]

I think you guys are getting worked up over nothing. The Gottlieb IP restriction is a long standing thing. Laylow stuff had nothing to do with DMCA or copyright. One person guessed it did and the idea spread like wildfire.

 

No one is coming to take away our fun. We're all here basically making fan art.

 

Best to take a deep breath and go enjoy some pinball, real or virtual. If the whole hobby disappeared from the internet tomorrow just look at the extreme pinball riches you still have sitting on your hard drive that you paid exactly nothing for. We're all doing great either way.

[Rajo Joey]

Don't panic. The ROMs are spread all over the net. There are torrents with all of them and other websites, where you found, what you want.

 

So if you find them, save them for the future.

[Schlabber34]

Like i said in another post, i don't think this hobby is in danger at this moment and i'm not even talking about roms or existing tables. But with the all in one installer and all the great table recreations this could create a larger comunity and generate more table downloads. I'm not saying that i know this is going to happen. But if, will the companies who are selling virtual pinball tables tolerate that fact? What is their limit? Not panicing at all, just thinking about a possible scenario.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G955F mit Tapatalk

[Scorpion]

Hello,

maybe is not important thing, but Gottlieb block on roms begins after many clones of mod original pinballs with gottlieb roms...

Edited by Scorpion, 13 November 2018 - 09:45 PM.

[The Loafer]

Ok maybe a good idea to stop with the random guesses! Its an Internet forum so par for the course I know but I gather next were gonna go with conspiracy theories?

Lets just stick with the facts

- Gottlieb have stared no sites are allowed to host their Roms.
- this predates 99% of the members so assuming you didnt know this, now you do
- Gottlieb havé licensed their Roms/manuals etc to specific people. With that in mind its perfecrly ok for them to protect their investment
- 12 to 10 years ago, the former VPF didnt host their Roms and that never stopped Gottlieb tables from being developed in VP
- if it ever happens no Gottlieb tables are allowed then we will have worse problems as Im sure Loserman will have a heart attack
- all is good, play some pinball it helps deal with lifes stressful moments

[gtxjoe]

Here is a Gottlieb cease and desist letter from a couple of weeks ago... back in 2003 though

https://www.ipdb.org...lieb_cease.html

Edited by gtxjoe, 14 November 2018 - 12:22 AM.

[Joe]

Actually, the ROMS and their copyright are still owned by Gottlied Developement LLC which is part of the Mondial Group. Like any business, they are protected their assets, rightly or wrongly in the case of their pinball machine ROMS, that would have questionable value in this day and age. Go figure. ASs Joe said, WMS/Stern don't have a problem with ROMS. I think Stern's stipulation is to allow a "grace" period before releasing their ROMS that ran on their superceded boards.

stern has roms on there own site and seems to be ok with them being mirrored to other sites.

Gottlied is acting like the car dealers / John deere and pushing that software even for repair use under an dealer only pay wall.

[Joe]

Ok maybe a good idea to stop with the random guesses! Its an Internet forum so par for the course I know but I gather next were gonna go with conspiracy theories?

Lets just stick with the facts

- Gottlieb have stared no sites are allowed to host their Roms.
- this predates 99% of the members so assuming you didnt know this, now you do
- Gottlieb havé licensed their Roms/manuals etc to specific people. With that in mind its perfecrly ok for them to protect their investment
- 12 to 10 years ago, the former VPF didnt host their Roms and that never stopped Gottlieb tables from being developed in VP
- if it ever happens no Gottlieb tables are allowed then we will have worse problems as Im sure Loserman will have a heart attack
- all is good, play some pinball it helps deal with lifes stressful moments

pinball community needs right to REAPIR laws and that right needs to have to stuff like roms images and repair info aka manuals + other info that is not locked under an dealers only networks locking out 3rd party repair shops.

 

This is an big issue with cars as manufacturers are locking down repair info aka manuals and software to an dealers only network that locks out the 3rd party repair shops from that info. any laws set there will spill over to pinball and sites like this may even be able to use an dmca exemption to host files like that.

 

 

12 to 10 years ago that was not an big issue but now it is.

 

 

Let just say for EX someone has an old game that say needs an repo board (as the old one is dead) But that repo board loads software form an rom file. They already own rom with the game so why should they be forced to pay an software fee again to fix there own game?

Or even say having to pay for the software + chip + burning fees + shiping if you just need an new rom chip (yes there are others will do it with out paying for the software but the point is they can be hit with an take down or lawsuit)

Edited by Joe, 14 November 2018 - 01:15 AM.

[Joe]

Maybe if the pinball 2000 nucore / Pinbox case when all the way to court

With all of the open source licensing issues coming out may of been only part of that case as the other big part is that people like the Software Freedom Conservancy will of needed to put up an big fight to stop bad precedent set in court. That let WMS force people to rebuy the pinball 2000 roms just load them in a VM just to be able to fix there own game.