42 replies to this topic

[maxxsinner]

Thanks Sharkus. Will update the link now.

DIN rail is just a standard cliping system used on electrical gear so relay's, terminal strips, power supplies all can clip onto the same railing.
As for the terminals, some people use them and others dont. Its totally personal preference.
I prefer to be cable to wire from say the led wiz to a terminal strip, then to the LED but thats just what I am used to doing.
Others will wire straight from the LEDwiz to the led. I prefer it as it makes fault finding a little easier.

[sharkus]

Thanks for the info. BTW, I was thinking that Darkfall's schematic would be a great addition to your document (assuming he doesn't mind). That really ties everything together...

I'm was also thinking that Cat-6 cable for all of the low voltage/low current stuff would work out nice. You can then use a 12-port mini-patch panel on the main control board.

Finally, has anyone tried out the LED's from DealExtreme? They are very cheap (with free, but slow, shipping). Some examples I'm going to try out: RGB Cree Emitter on Star or XR-E R2 or 1000-lumen XMLAWT.

[maxxsinner]

Thanks for the info. BTW, I was thinking that Darkfall's schematic would be a great addition to your document (assuming he doesn't mind). That really ties everything together...

Yeah next update I will be asking Darkfall if he is happy for it to go in. That and I am looking at buying Viso to be able to do schematics the same as Darkfalls and break it down into areas. i.e. LEDs, realy's , etc.

I'm was also thinking that Cat-6 cable for all of the low voltage/low current stuff would work out nice. You can then use a 12-port mini-patch panel on the main control board.

Cat 5 or 6 always stirs up some good opinions. I personally am not a fan but a some of the guys have had no problems with it. Its got a few pros and cons but please make sure its well away from anything mains voltage.

[sharkus]

That and I am looking at buying Viso to be able to do schematics the same as Darkfalls and break it down into areas. i.e. LEDs, realy's , etc.

You might want to give ExpressSCH or TinyCAD a try before you buy Visio...

[maxxsinner]

Think I will be getting work to spring for it sharkus, but cheers for the other options. Might use one of them on my home stuff.

[sharkus]

Has anyone tried to use a constant current circuit like this with LEDWiz? I'm wondering if it would be more efficient than a simple resistor.

[maxxsinner]

Constant current circuits are great for a single LED or and array of LED's that are all on at the same time. Because the LED flashers on out cabs are constantly changing clolors, the current required will vary so the only way to use a CC circuit is to make one for each color on each LED. Thats why we use resistors as they are just simpler.

Edited by maxxsinner, 14 October 2011 - 11:41 PM.

[sharkus]

BTW,

I found new wiper gear motors for $26 ($16+$10 shipping):

http://monsterguts.c...amp;productId=4

-Sharkus

[maxxsinner]

Nice find there Sharkus

[settingsons]

Maxxsinner
Your guide has proved to be invaluable during my pin build, the electrical side of things being the area I really lack knowledge in. Many thanks for maintaining it.

I have a full 3-screen cabinet with illuminated buttons and use an IPAC (pictured below). Having played more real pinball lately I really forgot how good the force flipper feedback is, so want to add this to my cabinet. I didn't want to use the Ledwiz because I manage to run UVP on most tables without any stutter and read they don't always go well together. Anyhow I just ordered 2 Siemens contactors and an Optocoupler from Wolfsoft as mentioned in your guide. I also ordered from ebay some Diodes

To be honest I had no clue what an Optocoupler or Diode until last week . I like to try and understand what I am doing so I will explain what I think these parts are for and hopefully someone can put me straight. "The Siemens contactors has an output terminal which would normally send a signal to the IPAC to indicate the solenoid has fired. But because the solenoid takes a small amount of time to activate there is lag using this method. Therefore the answer is to connect the IPAC to the solenoids directly to the 12v wire with the current, however the problem with is it would blow the IPAC. This is where the Optocoupler comes in - it dampens down the voltage that gets to the IPAC.". Is my understanding correct?

Also would it be ok/safe to take a 12v feed from my PC power supply to the two contactors as I am only using two of them? If not I was looking at this power supply which I think will do the job:

Power Supply

Its on German ebay as I cannot find any locally. Google translate says this:
"To select Switching Power Supplies / DC transformer 12V DC power from 15W to 500W with voltage fine adjustment
Ideal for all 12V 12V LED products and other devices.
The switching power supply has an over-voltage, - overcurrent and short circuit protection. Ausgsspannung of 12V DC in the range of + / - 10% adjustable."


Sorry for so many questions! Any advice appreciated. Cheers

Edited by settingsons, 09 December 2011 - 07:24 PM.

[maxxsinner]

Hey Settingsons.

"The Siemens contactors has an output terminal which would normally send a signal to the IPAC to indicate the solenoid has fired. But because the solenoid takes a small amount of time to activate there is lag using this method. Therefore the answer is to connect the IPAC to the solenoids directly to the 12v wire with the current, however the problem with is it would blow the IPAC. This is where the Optocoupler comes in - it dampens down the voltage that gets to the IPAC.". Is my understanding correct?

Very close here. Basically the IPAC needs a ground input and your flipper buttons are driving a 12 volt output. An optocoupler is mainly used for electrical isolation and is perfect for this use. A trigger of 12 volt from your flipper button powers the LED in the optcoupler which in turn turns on the phototransistor in the optocoupler creating a circuit between your ground to the input on the IPAC.

Also would it be ok/safe to take a 12v feed from my PC power supply to the two contactors as I am only using two of them?

That should be fine as they only draw approximately 450 mA. Just use a fuse on each contactor to protect your power supply if either coil fails causingcircuitrt cicuit. 500 mA should be fine.

Sorry for so many questions! Any advice appreciated. Cheers

Love getting questions so I can have my chance to give back to this awesome community.

[settingsons]

Thanks for the quick response maxxsinner - really appreciate those explanations - now I understand!

Once the stuff arrives from Wolfsoft and the diodes I will give it a go and report back.

[settingsons]

Thanks for the quick response maxxsinner - really appreciate those explanations - now I understand!

Once the stuff arrives from Wolfsoft and the diodes I will give it a go and report back.

The opto-coupler and 2 siemens contactors were sent promptly by Wolfsoft and arrived in the week. On Saturday I wired up a relay to a button first without the optocoupler or ipac to test it. It packed quite a punch. Today I disassembled the cab to fit them properly. Four hours later i finished and had all the glass back in, etc.

Well I thought a full size cabinet with flipper buttons was the best it could get, but two of these contactors DOUBLE the pleasure. That thump you feel when you hit flipper really gives you a feeling of a weighty ball especially when play on some of the tables with tweaked physics. I would recommend it to anyone who has finished their cabinet who hasn't got these, to seriously think about getting some. It feels so real now .

Thanks to Chriz who 'pioneered' the use of the contactors over in the HP forums, and maxxsinner for his invaluable 101 guide which gave me the knowledge and confidence to have a go at installing them. Cheers.

[maxxsinner]

Great to hear you have had success with it settingsons!

[DedRok_V]

Thanks for the quick response maxxsinner - really appreciate those explanations - now I understand!

Once the stuff arrives from Wolfsoft and the diodes I will give it a go and report back.

The opto-coupler and 2 siemens contactors were sent promptly by Wolfsoft and arrived in the week. On Saturday I wired up a relay to a button first without the optocoupler or ipac to test it. It packed quite a punch. Today I disassembled the cab to fit them properly. Four hours later i finished and had all the glass back in, etc.

Well I thought a full size cabinet with flipper buttons was the best it could get, but two of these contactors DOUBLE the pleasure. That thump you feel when you hit flipper really gives you a feeling of a weighty ball especially when play on some of the tables with tweaked physics. I would recommend it to anyone who has finished their cabinet who hasn't got these, to seriously think about getting some. It feels so real now .

Thanks to Chriz who 'pioneered' the use of the contactors over in the HP forums, and maxxsinner for his invaluable 101 guide which gave me the knowledge and confidence to have a go at installing them. Cheers.

So do you get the contactor thump when flicking thru HP as well, or is it just in game...... and what about trapping the ball, do they stay on..... still deciding which way to go.

[settingsons]

Thanks for the quick response maxxsinner - really appreciate those explanations - now I understand!

Once the stuff arrives from Wolfsoft and the diodes I will give it a go and report back.

The opto-coupler and 2 siemens contactors were sent promptly by Wolfsoft and arrived in the week. On Saturday I wired up a relay to a button first without the optocoupler or ipac to test it. It packed quite a punch. Today I disassembled the cab to fit them properly. Four hours later i finished and had all the glass back in, etc.

Well I thought a full size cabinet with flipper buttons was the best it could get, but two of these contactors DOUBLE the pleasure. That thump you feel when you hit flipper really gives you a feeling of a weighty ball especially when play on some of the tables with tweaked physics. I would recommend it to anyone who has finished their cabinet who hasn't got these, to seriously think about getting some. It feels so real now .

Thanks to Chriz who 'pioneered' the use of the contactors over in the HP forums, and maxxsinner for his invaluable 101 guide which gave me the knowledge and confidence to have a go at installing them. Cheers.

So do you get the contactor thump when flicking thru HP as well, or is it just in game...... and what about trapping the ball, do they stay on..... still deciding which way to go.

Yes you do get the thump when spinning through Hyperpin with the left and right flipper.  It doesn't bother me as expected - this is  because i use the left and right magnasave buttons to scroll a whole letter forward and backward on the wheel.  Also when  holding the flipper down it scrolls through the wheel fast with just one thump of the contactor.   Also there is no lag at all when hitting the flipper.  Ie: it does not wait for the contactor to fire.

If i watch the optocoupler led when i hold the flipper down it stays illuminated until i release the button.

[DedRok_V]

Ok ,thanks for the info settingsons

[maxxsinner]

Guide updated to 1.08. Feel free to post feedback on errors, etc.

[AndersE]

Why use expensive contactors? Why not real pinball knockers and magnets? They are cheaper used.

And relays, dirtcheap car relays should be easier to find. Car relays are 12v and can handle up to ?? 100Amps?
Ordinary relays for lights handle 30-50A. Lot of configs exist on them, single, dual, delay etc.

Also, some older (perhaps newer also) PC powersupplys can deliver 24V if you use +12v and -12 as ground.

[maxxsinner]

Feel free to use what you like AndersE. As the guide says, it's just an opinion. Some of the advice in the guide is from people that have built a few cabinets and found that the gear that is being suggested gives the best results and is the most reliable. But all the gear you have suggested will work of course.

Be careful using the 12+ and -12 as the -12 rail is not designed for high current.