1103 replies to this topic

[mjr]

I'm going to tack on this question:  I have some infrared emitters from a work project that was discontinued, it stock on the IR window and was used to switch the volume on and off with a little controller. Will this sort of device work with Interface board?

 

I must have missed this one earlier.  It's hard to say if the IR emitters will work without seeing a data sheet on them.  Most IR emitters are basically just LEDs that operate at IR wavelengths, so they'll probably work in principle.  The catch is that you need to know the standard LED characteristics (forward voltage and current) to figure the safe operating current for them.  If you have that info for them, just figure the resistor size you need for a 5V power supply using a generic LED calculator, and use that for R11 on the main board.

[mjr]

 

For my 5 flashers to connect to JP11 I was planning to use per flasher: two segments consisting of  3 x 5050 RGB leds, making it in total 40mA per pin (if I am correct). 

 

Do I understand correctly from MJR's answer to Onefox that I can connect them directly to my PC PSU instead of using a secondary PSU?

 

And furthermore, should I use any resistors (if so which and where?) or can I leave them out as with my flipper rgb-led (which are working great btw ) 

 

Yep, that all looks correct.  This is a small enough power draw that you don't need to worry about a second power supply.

 

And you're right that you won't need resistors for the 5050 strips.

 

(I should point out that the reason for that is different from the flipper button LEDs, though:

 

* In the case of the flipper button LEDs, you don't need resistors because the JP8 outputs have built-in current limiters.  As a result, any type of LED connected to JP8 is fine without a resistor.

 

* In the case of the 5050 strips for flashers, you don't need extra resistors because the 5050 strips themselves have resistors built in.

 

The main reason I point this out is to make sure no one coming across this in the future reads it as meaning that you don't need resistors for flashers in general.  The JP11 outputs themselves don't have current limiters, so LEDs connected there *do* need resistors.  But the resistors built in to the 5050 strips fulfill that requirement, so you don't need extra resistors with those.  If you were connecting the more typical 3W "star" LEDs, you would need the resistors.)

 

One other detail:  the 5050 strips usually require 12V power, so you'll have to power the "+" side from the 12V (yellow wire) from your power supply, instead of connecting it to the +5V pin on JP11.

Edited by mjr, 25 July 2017 - 03:56 AM.

[Onevox]

Thought I could get done without another question... got the CCD pcb on, and then learned that ribbon cable ain't just ribbon cable. The USB ribbon I pulled from decommissioned CPU is narrower than connecter for 8 wires. What is the pitch of the cable I need? And the connector is soldered on PCB and fixed on the cable so there no easy disconnection point at the CCD? Thanks, again. .


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[mjr]

Thought I could get done without another question... got the CCD pcb on, and then learned that ribbon cable ain't just ribbon cable. The USB ribbon I pulled from decommissioned CPU is narrower than connecter for 8 wires. What is the pitch of the cable I need?

 

Indeed, there are different types.  The type here is 0.05" pitch.   It's the standard type that all of the Arduino and robotics people use for just about everything, so you can get it from anyone who sells those sorts of products.

 

 

And the connector is soldered on PCB and fixed on the cable so there no easy disconnection point at the CCD? 

 

Right.  You could certainly switch to a pluggable connector if you prefer (assuming you can find one that matches the diagonal pin layout on the little PCB), but I figured it was enough to have it disconnect from one end - that way you can take out the sensor or take out the expansion board by unplugging the one plug.  And the soldered connection at that end makes things a little more secure and less likely to work loose over time.

[Onevox]

I had a another ribbon with what looks like the right pitch. But is there a trick to clamping the end on without specialized tools? Tried with a vice but worried pins will bend before the top clamps down. 

[mjr]

I had a another ribbon with what looks like the right pitch. But is there a trick to clamping the end on without specialized tools? Tried with a vice but worried pins will bend before the top clamps down. 

 

There is a special tool for this of course, but I've had pretty good luck with ordinary pliers in wide grip mode.  I don't actually think there's much danger of the metal pins bending since their whole purpose is to pierce the insulation (they're little razor blades - be careful handling them).  Unless your ribbon cable insulation is some super-tough kind that's not designed for IDC connectors, but that seems really unlikely because that's the only kind of connector anyone ever uses with ribbon cables.  The main thing to watch out for is breaking the plastic parts.  It's best to apply even pressure, across both sides.  A vice actually seems like a pretty good bet.

[Onevox]

I broke one end off the clamp. I think I'm just going to solder wire to the little PCB and get a standard 8 pin header for the main board. I have a lot of colored wire options from a backbox wiring harness that came with my donor cab.

 

BTW, the Mouser part number (164-9004-E)  on the CCD plunger sensor parts list is for a 40 pin IDC connector. I noticed on the optical encoder list, too. I don't see an 8 pin ribbon cable IDC connector at Mouser. I can't assume this is incorrect but seems like it. 

Edited by Onevox, 26 July 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[kiwiBri]

 

I had a another ribbon with what looks like the right pitch. But is there a trick to clamping the end on without specialized tools? Tried with a vice but worried pins will bend before the top clamps down. 

 

There is a special tool for this of course, but I've had pretty good luck with ordinary pliers in wide grip mode.  I don't actually think there's much danger of the metal pins bending since their whole purpose is to pierce the insulation (they're little razor blades - be careful handling them).  Unless your ribbon cable insulation is some super-tough kind that's not designed for IDC connectors, but that seems really unlikely because that's the only kind of connector anyone ever uses with ribbon cables.  The main thing to watch out for is breaking the plastic parts.  It's best to apply even pressure, across both sides.  A vice actually seems like a pretty good bet.

 

 

I've used a vice with success in the past for these type connectors.

[mjr]

I broke one end off the clamp. I think I'm just going to solder wire to the little PCB and get a standard 8 pin header for the main board. I have a lot of colored wire options from a backbox wiring harness that came with my donor cab.

 

Yeah, the plastic parts are the delicate parts in these.  Just out of curiosity, did you solder the connector to the board before trying to attach the wire and top clamp piece?  That's the right order - it lets you get a better grip on the bottom piece when it's already attached to the board.

 

 

BTW, the Mouser part number (164-9004-E)  on the CCD plunger sensor parts list is for a 40 pin IDC connector. I noticed on the optical encoder list, too. I don't see an 8 pin ribbon cable IDC connector at Mouser. I can't assume this is incorrect but seems like it. 

 

40 pin is definitely incorrect - either they changed the number on me (unlikely) or I just copied the wrong number.  There are a number of options for this on Mouser; try this search:

 

http://www.mouser.co...1z0xbmhZ1yzv7x1

 

This one looks like the type I use:

 

http://www.mouser.co...x?R=61200823021

 

You can also get the same thing more cheaply from Pololu.com: https://www.pololu.com/product/855

Oops, take that back - that's a 2x3.  Doesn't look like they have them after all.  But if you search for "idc 2x4 female" on Amazon or eBay, they have multiple options.  Be sure to get a 2.54mm (0.1") pitch type.

Edited by mjr, 26 July 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[mjr]

(Deleted - duplicate)

Edited by mjr, 26 July 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[Onevox]

 

I broke one end off the clamp. I think I'm just going to solder wire to the little PCB and get a standard 8 pin header for the main board. I have a lot of colored wire options from a backbox wiring harness that came with my donor cab.

 

Yeah, the plastic parts are the delicate parts in these.  Just out of curiosity, did you solder the connector to the board before trying to attach the wire and top clamp piece?  That's the right order - it lets you get a better grip on the bottom piece when it's already attached to the board.

 

I did not, soldered PCB on CCD first. I was worried that putting the PCB in a vise seemed like a bad idea, unless I had a special tool to protect it. I did get the connector clamped with channel lock pliers and secured with thin strips of electrical tape, but DMM showed only pins 1,2,6,7,8 made good connections. Since I have to get an IDC connecter, I may order another PCB connector (or two) and some fresh ribbon cable while I'm at it.

 

.Also wondered about just separating the wires on the end of the ribbon about a 1/8" and using my ethernet wire tool to push them onto the connectors.

 

 

 

 

[mjr]

 

.Also wondered about just separating the wires on the end of the ribbon about a 1/8" and using my ethernet wire tool to push them onto the connectors.

 

You could try, but those IDC connectors are very specifically designed to work with intact ribbon cables.  The insulation is what keeps everything aligned.

 

Given that you've already attached the PCB to the sensor, you probably won't be able to attach the ribbon cable with the connector already on the PCB, so you might be better off at this point using individual wires and a crimp housing, as you were thinking earlier.

[Onevox]

Sorry about the minutia. Especially on the disco'd plunger system.

 

8pin 1.27" pitch PCB connector (reorder) >> 1.27" pitch ribbon cable >>  2.54" 8pin IDC female plug

 

http://www.mouser.co...ey571-2178713-8

http://www.mouser.co...key517-3365/9FT

http://www.mouser.co...710-61200823021

 

I'm going to work up a little frame I can use to press the connector together without damaging the pins.

[mjr]

Sorry I haven't gotten the TSL1410R PCB board into the build guide yet, but for reference for other people, the procedure I recommend for installing the IDC-to-board connector is in the AEDR-8300 section.  Search for "ribbon cable wiring".

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...hp?sid=aedr8300

[kiwiBri]

Hi MJR, 

 

been busy the past few days. Had a few issues to resolve (Fine tuning my VPX graphic options etc). 

 

So I have been actually "Playing" my Vpin now and I noticed something with the way the flipper buttons. I wasn't sure if it was a issue to do with the tables or VPX itself or the Pinscape board. I just did some testing with PinballFX2 and I am concluding the issue could be related to the way the Pinscape board reads inputs. 

 

Here is the scenario. While playing a game, you may often cradle a ball, then release the button then QUICKLY press the button again - Ie. A quick slap of the button or even a very quick press. (I actually noticed the issue when trying slap shots but was able to reproduce by the cradle method). So you can slap the button in , and even have the button pressed..   and the issue is the flipper does not flip. 

 

Now, I am using real pinball leaf switches. I swaped the wiring to my Magnasave buttons and was able to reporduce the issue on both the left and right flippers.. on both sets of buttons. So I dont think its a problem with a single button.  My thoughts are that the pinscape "misses" the button press because its so fast. 

Like I mentioned, I was able to reproduce this outside of VPX, in PinballFx2 and PinballX. 

 

Is there a delay built into the pinscape board for scanning the inputs and perhaps I'm now going faster than this repeat rate?

 

Otherwise, I'm very happy how my VPin has come out. 

[mjr]

Here is the scenario. While playing a game, you may often cradle a ball, then release the button then QUICKLY press the button again - Ie. A quick slap of the button or even a very quick press. (I actually noticed the issue when trying slap shots but was able to reproduce by the cradle method). So you can slap the button in , and even have the button pressed..   and the issue is the flipper does not flip. 

 

Is there a delay built into the pinscape board for scanning the inputs and perhaps I'm now going faster than this repeat rate?

 

There are multiple sources of key latency in the system, actually.  The big one is usually USB, since that normally polls every 10ms (1/100 of a second).  The pinball players (VP and others) also have their own latency according to how quickly they poll.  The Pinscape software does some debouncing, which involves waiting about 5ms to make sure that the electrical signal from the switch is stable.  

 

You might try firing up the button tester in the Pinscape config tool to see what it looks like there.  That updates about as fast as the video refresh, so it's not quite as fast as VP is updating but in the same ballpark.  Try doing your button taps there and watch the button status to see what's lighting up.  That'll give you a little more insight into the raw key input.  You can also bring up the Windows on-screen keyboard (type "on-screen keyboard" into the Start menu search box or Windows+S search box) - that will show you the status of the shift keys in pretty close to real time, so if your buttons are configured as shift keys, you can do the same raw key test there.

[kiwiBri]

MJR,

 

thanks for the explanation. With that in mind, I did some testing last night. I ended up remounting my leaf switches better against the buttons, and things improved. I think the issue was that the leaf switches were ever so slightly off the button, and the leaf switches have these rounded "nubs" on the leafs which make contact. They were perhaps not contacting straight enough when I was pressing the button fast.  Thats all I can think what is going on. With me moving the leaf switches, the contact point is much better.  I will continue to monitor this. 

Using the On-Screen Keyboard option was a good choice as It was easier to see the indication the buttons were being pressed with the larger display. Thanks again,

Now back to the PinballX setup..  

[mjr]

Great, glad you were able to improve it.  The leaf switches can be a little fiddly, even on the real machines, although you really can't beat them for feel.

[Onevox]

Got the KL25Z set up, until I got to the plunger sensor. The sensor window in the Pinscape setup, during the calibration process, and after, is spastic. Not a nice smooth black and white bar. When "contrast" added, looks like a spastic bar code. And the rest/max are jumpy as well.

 

1. I have checked continuity on the ribbon cable between all pins. That's good. I've checked all the solder points and reflowed a couple of them.

2. I have the small PCB aligned properly with the CCD.

3. I have the red ribbon cable side to Pin1 arrow on small PCB and Pin1 Arrow on main board. 

4. I don't know if I have the light source correct yet but can't imagine that the light source is the issue since I've tried different light sources. 

5. I haven't hooked up any buttons yet. Just the plunger and two USB cables. 

6. I haven't fully tested the main board, just the KL25Z, so maybe something on the main board (?)

 

Thoughts? Seen it before? Worried the CCD is bad...

 

Edit: Dawned on me that I haven't hooked up power to the main board, so if I'm reading the schematic correctly, which is always in doubt, the sensor isn't getting the 5V it needs? 

Edited by Onevox, 07 August 2017 - 07:27 PM.

[mjr]

Got the KL25Z set up, until I got to the plunger sensor. The sensor window in the Pinscape setup, during the calibration process, and after, is spastic. Not a nice smooth black and white bar. When "contrast" added, looks like a spastic bar code. And the rest/max are jumpy as well.

 

1. I have checked continuity on the ribbon cable between all pins. That's good. I've checked all the solder points and reflowed a couple of them.

2. I have the small PCB aligned properly with the CCD.

3. I have the red ribbon cable side to Pin1 arrow on small PCB and Pin1 Arrow on main board. 

4. I don't know if I have the light source correct yet but can't imagine that the light source is the issue since I've tried different light sources. 

5. I haven't hooked up any buttons yet. Just the plunger and two USB cables. 

6. I haven't fully tested the main board, just the KL25Z, so maybe something on the main board (?)

 

The first thing I'd do is try a strong light and see if you can get any response out of it.  A couple of people have had similar problems that turned out to be a simple matter of not enough light.  Try something like a desk lamp a foot or two away from the sensor pointing right at it.  See if there's any difference between the light on and off, and try covering portions of the sensor to see if you get any reaction in different areas.

 

It it's still not working, the next thing I'd to is double-check that the connector board orientation is right.  Here's a diagram of how they should line up.  The sensor in this view has the glass window facing up, and the connector board has the silkscreened text facing up.

 

 

(The intended way to install it is to flip the sensor over from this view and install the connector board on its back, so that the board sits squarely over the sensor rather than sticking out to the side like this.   But you can also install it sticking out the side like this if you prefer - they're equivalent electrically since the pins on the front and back of the sensor are the same.  Flipping it over just minimizes the combined footprint to make it easier to install in a confined area.)

 

If the orientation looks good, I'd trace the continuity all the way from the KL25Z pads to the sensor pads, since there are several solder points and connectors in between.  You can find a full pin diagram of the KL25Z here:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...sid=kl25zPinOut

 

What I'd do is open up the config tool and write down the three pin assignments you have for the sensor, then disconnect everything from USB and do the continuity checks to each of those KL25Z pin pads.  Touch one probe to the KL25Z pad for one of the pins and touch the other probe to the TSL1410R pad for the corresponding pin, and make sure it goes all the way through.  I'd use the pads on the opposite side of the sensor from the one where you soldered the connector board to make sure you're actually touching the sensor pin and not the solder.

 

Next, check continuity between the following pins on the TSL1410R directly:  

 

  SI1 = HOLD1 = HOLD2

  CLK1 = CLK2
  AO1 = AO2

  SO1 = SI2

  Vpp = GND

 

Next, plug the board into USB and power it up.  Switch your meter to DC Voltage mode.  Measure the voltage from red probe = Vdd to black probe = Vpp - both the pins pads on the TSL1410R again - and verify that you read +3.3V. 

 

 

Edit: Dawned on me that I haven't hooked up power to the main board, so if I'm reading the schematic correctly, which is always in doubt, the sensor isn't getting the 5V it needs? 

 

The sensor actually gets power directly from the KL25Z's 3.3V regulator, so I'm afraid that's not the problem.

Edited by mjr, 07 August 2017 - 09:59 PM.