740 replies to this topic

[gtxjoe]

Great idea. But these so called templates don't exist so there is no way to include them

Edited by gtxjoe, 18 September 2017 - 02:40 AM.

[LynnInDenver]

Great idea. But these so called templates don't exist so there is no way to include them

 

Yes, but if the user is allowed to add their own, it could be dramatically useful for the individual user. I could see having a template for myself that is already set up as a widebody, without having to mess with the apron, or open another table, strip down, and save. Or for those who make original tables, something that has a barebones scripting setup with things like UltraDMD already applied.

[Shockman]

@gtxjoe

There is a lot of VP features that use to not be there. How were they put in if they did not exist? Creation, I suspect. 

 

...........

@jferio

I support a user editable file for a new table simply because the "New" table is not a bare table. Unless you want to have your slings have lights as part of the sling routine, and be this unrealistic looking, and light, and light up exactly as these do light up, then we are where we always were since VPX came about The older versions had a blank tables, and a much better blank table than this newer version has. Close enough to a 80s Bally to be intentional. An honest blank table without someones concept with what could possibly be added actually added. 

 

I support your idea as a slot for a user file (custom), but not for a set of templates, because when we talk about real world tables there is nothing subjective about them.

...........

 

We are so close to having a blank table, and that, in my opinion is needed, and it can't be said that that don't exist because it almost does now again finally, but it is wrong, and dishonest because it is not blank but has someones lighting already coded that in my opinion is not even impressive, so is there for some egotistical reason, or some illogical reason.

Edited by Shockman, 18 September 2017 - 04:22 AM.

[hauntfreaks]

to make real a template feature would be one hell of a process.... it would need 40ish templates to accommodate the various table sizes.... and again make your own blank, problem solved

 

LOL... open> find table ....is to many steps??... lol... stop it
put your template tables in your the visual pinball folder, so there not lost in the table folder or use a "~" (Tilde) in front of the file name and it will always be the top table if sorted by name

 

this is way over thinking something IMO

Edited by hauntfreaks, 18 September 2017 - 04:53 AM.

[LynnInDenver]

to make real a template feature would be one hell of a process.... it would need 40ish templates to accommodate the various table sizes.... and again make your own blank, problem solved

 

LOL... open> find table ....is to many steps??... lol... stop it
put your template tables in your the visual pinball folder, so there not lost in the table folder or use a "~" (Tilde) in front of the file name and it will always be the top table if sorted by name

 

this is way over thinking something IMO

 

Maybe I am. Do remember, though, I'm used to using software that does support adding templates, even one of the pieces of hobbyist software I use supports changing the default template that loads up. They also don't ship 40+ templates with the software, and you don't have to make them. I'm fine with making my own set of templates, in fact, most of the software I use assumes the user knows best what additional templates they would need. I'd just like the option to add my own templates to the New Table selection screen alongside the two that are there.

 

If it's pie in the sky for you, or seems to be more work than necessary, that's fine. Although the seemingly immediate outright rejection, for something that seems fairly easy given that there are now TWO templates available in the software, does confuse me, because all I seem to be asking for is a way to add to that specific list that already exists. Even a hook into a folder called Templates, loading files found there into the selection screen, would be fine. Yes, I know this isn't a high production level environment, even JP isn't making more than a few tables per year, but sometimes, it's the little things.

[gtxjoe]

Can you or Shockman create the template to be included?

[DJRobX]

to make real a template feature would be one hell of a process.... it would need 40ish templates to accommodate the various table sizes.... and again make your own blank, problem solved

...

 

this is way over thinking something IMO

 

It could be done by programmatic updates to the blank table.   Maybe a combination of the blank table and adjusting the sizes to match what's in the dimension manager.    But as you say, it really seems like we're over thinking, and there are so many other areas of VP that are in more need of attention.   

[toxie]

One thing that's been driving me bat sh*t crazy dabbling with table development is that the script editor gets progressively slower and slower.

 

I tracked this down to a bug in the code editor stuff.  In CodeView.cpp at line 2000 change:

static int ParentLevel = 0;
 
static string CurrentParentKey = "";

to:

int ParentLevel = 0;
 
string CurrentParentKey = "";

What happens is the "CurrentParentKey" value keeps getting concatenated with different functions, and the list of subs in "Go to sub/function" fills up with more and more duplicates because it doesn't bulid unique keys.     When you do something like close the find window, it rebuilds this list.   After a while it starts to take 5-10-20 seconds just to do basic things in the editor, which gets maddening.  

 

I'm not really sure why they were static.  They are set up as if this were maybe recursive function, but from what I can tell it never calls itself.    I'm guessing nobody uses this feature since it quickly became worthless with it filling up with duplicate values.  

 

Thanks for the find.. I fixed it slightly differently, keeping the original idea alive.. Maybe it even does something useful in the end..

Hi Toxie, i have an "issue" in vpx4, in the material editor :

In the vpx3 version, there is a particular thing, that we can go over the normal values. A very interresting thing for me

In the vpx4 for some parameters, it's stil possible, but in this case it works in real time but when you launch a new time the table, it comes back to the "max value".

Is it possible to let "Edge Opacity" and Thickness free of use ???? like before for the other parameters ????

Or is it possible to change it in real time with scripting commands ? i don't have found them if they exist...

 

Thank you very much for all your impovements !!!!!

 

 

Spooky..

 

Are you sure you really need that and could not do it differently?

I would rather prefer to actually really limit both to 0..1 as-is now..

 

rev3209 is up:

 

- fix touch support detection and the corresponding message

 

thanks fuzzel, is there any way to just turn off the message? I have a touchscreen on my laptop that I do most of my table building on, and I really don't need to see those instructions every time I load a table.

 

you may also want to mention top left corner for coin.

 

 

Would it be okay to just show it once per VPX being started?

[BorgDog]

 

 

rev3209 is up:

 

- fix touch support detection and the corresponding message

 

thanks fuzzel, is there any way to just turn off the message? I have a touchscreen on my laptop that I do most of my table building on, and I really don't need to see those instructions every time I load a table.

 

you may also want to mention top left corner for coin.

 

 

Would it be okay to just show it once per VPX being started?

 

 

That would be better.

[Thalamus]

Better, but, these kind of messages doesn't have any other function than being annoying once the user know what they say ... each time.

Happy that I don't have a touch screen enabled monitor when running through pbx ... each table is a new start.

Edited by Thalamus, 18 September 2017 - 11:09 PM.

[LynnInDenver]

Can you or Shockman create the template to be included?

 

Um, not quite what I was trying to suggest, but thanks for at least offering.

 

What I'd really like to see in terms of the template idea, formally:

 

A folder in the VP folder called "Templates", where I can drop a VPX file.

 

On launch, VP scans the folder, and adds the VPX files within to the New List under the two existing New Table entries in my local instance. It only needs to do this once a session, needing to close and relaunch the software if I add one would be fine, as it isn't normally expected I'd need to do so and then immediately access it. It also does not need to add them permanently, just scan and add each time it launches, so there shouldn't be a need to permanently track the entries. Selecting one from the session-appended New menu should open the table, rename it to "Table#", and otherwise treat it as if it was a brand new file that I will need to save out elsewhere.

 

Obviously, if I want to share a template, I'd use the established channels of publishing one like I would publish a complete table on one of the websites. VP does not need to be set up to allow me to share with other installs.

 

Odds are good that personally I'd only be setting up two templates: a standard body UltraDMD setup with a skeleton game framework (something like what you can get for pyroc/Mission Pinball Framework), and a matching wide body setup. I would be surprised if people put in more than a half dozen on their personal installs, with a leading possibility being a VPinMAME "feed it a ROM and already have the calls for solenoid activations".

 

Having the Example template provided in that folder, instead of embedded within VP's file structure, would be splendid, but not strictly necessary.

 

Regarding fear of saving over any manual template: I work professionally in the print industry, and our workflow is set up specifically so that we have fallbacks from accidentally doing so, and it has actually saved me headaches because I have done so without meaning to. Granted, I should have other fallbacks for such things in my personal workflow, but like a lot of things, I really prefer to cultivate multiple options.

 

Regarding programmatically adjusting the table, I think that is actually overthinking the process; each person is going to have a different idea of what needs to happen when you go from standard to wide body table design in terms of lanes, apron, and flipper positions, which would make doing it automatically a nightmare on almost all levels.

[hauntfreaks]

just for laughs i'll add one last comment about templates.... how many new tables per week, per week, per month are you, or someone making???  some builders make 1-2 tables a year, taking months and months to make one.... 
so if its not really being a daily function... and also remember I would NEVER protest any new feature ever, the more the better.... but I would like to see 100's of new ideas worked on and implemented...

[LynnInDenver]

just for laughs i'll add one last comment about templates.... how many new tables per week, per week, per month are you, or someone making???  some builders make 1-2 tables a year, taking months and months to make one.... 
so if its not really being a daily function... and also remember I would NEVER protest any new feature ever, the more the better.... but I would like to see 100's of new ideas worked on and implemented...

 

And now, you're just trolling. I'd like to make more than a couple a year, honestly, and I'd like to make them with the option to create a template and have it in place.

 

Oh, and please, do NOT make fun of someone's preferred workflow. If only because, there are many ways to make a pinball table, but this is how jferio would like to make.

[Thalamus]

Stop it !

[randr]

Every table in my collection turns into a template table one way or another! I copy bits of code from all sorts of released tables I like the default table for slings, rolling ball sounds and now even has ninuzzu's ball shadow and bill's ball control! Really every table can be used as template would be tough to satisfy every need

[Shockman]

Can you or Shockman create the template to be included?

 

Absolutely not. It could be done, but it would be silly. The correct way would be to have no models of templates at all, and the program render the table using only math..The first part would simply be  to change the 1000X2000 default table to use variables, the rest would be along the same lines and just as easy. I would never expect a shitload of table models and scripts be added to VP.

 

We have what the devs are calling a "New" table that still has to be stripped in elements and parts of scripts to get going..

 

It's not about the tables released, as should be understood, but concepts, experiments, element building, etc. To think the only time the editor is used by anyone is to build a fully functional table is just silly.

Edited by Shockman, 19 September 2017 - 03:25 AM.

[hauntfreaks]

 

just for laughs i'll add one last comment about templates.... how many new tables per week, per week, per month are you, or someone making???  some builders make 1-2 tables a year, taking months and months to make one.... 
so if its not really being a daily function... and also remember I would NEVER protest any new feature ever, the more the better.... but I would like to see 100's of new ideas worked on and implemented...

 

And now, you're just trolling. I'd like to make more than a couple a year, honestly, and I'd like to make them with the option to create a template and have it in place.

 

Oh, and please, do NOT make fun of someone's preferred workflow. If only because, there are many ways to make a pinball table, but this is how jferio would like to make.

 

well i'm lost now...   I wasnt trolling,... trolling is a pointless post like, "well you're ugly"... or "STFU Fatty"   something like that.... nor was a making fun of anything... also I've been in the graphic art business for over 25yrs... so... I for sure understand that there are many ways to skin a cat.... oh and I love cats... 

 

Can you or Shockman create the template to be included?

 

Absolutely not. It could be done, but it would be silly. The correct way would be to have no models of templates at all, and the program render the table using only math..The first part would simply be  to change the 1000X2000 default table to use variables, the rest would be along the same lines and just as easy. I would never expect a shitload of table models and scripts be added to VP.

 

We have what the devs are calling a "New" table that still has to be stripped in elements and parts of scripts to get going..

 

It's not about the tables released, as should be understood, but concepts, experiments, element building, etc. To think the only time the editor is used by anyone is to build a fully functional table is just silly.

 

 

the blank table is more than adequate to test or experiment  needed to be done.... and I reperfer asshole over silly... ok fella     shock i know you missed me... lets talk about those reflections or how vp8 is the best.... I miss the good ol' days

[LynnInDenver]

 

 

just for laughs i'll add one last comment about templates.... how many new tables per week, per week, per month are you, or someone making???  some builders make 1-2 tables a year, taking months and months to make one.... 
so if its not really being a daily function... and also remember I would NEVER protest any new feature ever, the more the better.... but I would like to see 100's of new ideas worked on and implemented...

 
And now, you're just trolling. I'd like to make more than a couple a year, honestly, and I'd like to make them with the option to create a template and have it in place.
 
Oh, and please, do NOT make fun of someone's preferred workflow. If only because, there are many ways to make a pinball table, but this is how jferio would like to make.

 

well i'm lost now...   I wasnt trolling,... trolling is a pointless post like, "well you're ugly"... or "STFU Fatty"   something like that.... nor was a making fun of anything... also I've been in the graphic art business for over 25yrs... so... I for sure understand that there are many ways to skin a cat.... oh and I love cats...

 

First, what you don't see as trolling? Others do see as trolling on the internet. Especially when you're trying to be clever with it, and I'd agree with author John Scalzi, and that is that the failure mode of clever is a**hole, and the internet makes that failure mode about four times more likely. Plus, a useful post can still include trolling, subject to the same failure mode.

 

Secondly, you did spend more than a few posts basically saying, "I don't think this workflow is even worth considering for inclusion." Thalamus and JPSalas at least just said something once against, then let it be. And Shockman agreed that the feature recommendation was a good idea. Nor did you give any indication of any features you'd like to see included that aren't, that should take priority over my recommendation. Yes, you have your reasons for saying it's not a good idea and it'd be a waste of time, but I've tried to explain that I think the potential usefulness is there, and on top of that you don't have to use the feature if it's included, there's enough room for both workflows to exist.

[Thalamus]

Please refrain from answering these questions HF. This is not the place to discuss a feature that for most seems to be irrelevant. If you need to continue this debate, start a new thread somewhere !

[jipeji16]

Hi Toxie, and thank you for your answer.

 

No i don't have found any solution to solve it instead of coming back to vp9 tricks !!!!!

My problem is that there are two lights behind my backwall. my backwall image is made with alpha transparency on the guns.

Why blocking this wonderfull trick ? how do you determine that "1" is the maximum value to this parameter or others ? as you know it can be go further, and as you see, results can be better and sometimes surprising  And the last part is a gift you made for creators, to go further.

You can perhaps let it to 1 max, but change the scale of the effect

 

Big thank you for all you do with the VP Team !!!!!!

 

PS : And for the scripting cmd ? it could be the solution if you don't want to change it ?

Edited by jipeji16, 19 September 2017 - 03:02 PM.