1103 replies to this topic

[Rappelbox]

For both power connectors there are parts listed in the charts.
4 pin molex for 2nd psu and
2 pin molex for 5V supply.

I was thinking about if it wouldn't be easier and much more convenient to replace these two with the old standard HDD connector (IDE, also known as molex), since it's still supplied with generic PC power supplies?!

Greetings,
Dom

[kiwiBri]

For both power connectors there are parts listed in the charts.
4 pin molex for 2nd psu and
2 pin molex for 5V supply.

I was thinking about if it wouldn't be easier and much more convenient to replace these two with the old standard HDD connector (IDE, also known as molex), since it's still supplied with generic PC power supplies?!

Greetings,
Dom

 

thanks Dom. I must have missed it.  Maybe the connector is more generic because MJR imagined the pinscape board at the front of the cab and the PSUs tend to be located at the rear of the cab, so an extension of some sort is required to be wired up?  Also, maybe more importantly, wasn't the 5V usually taken from the PC PSU, and the 4Pin from a second power supply. I think to keep them isolated. (I'm basing this on the discussion I read at the beginning pages of this thread)

[roar]

How the heck do you wire up that coin door switch, it has 6 connectors on it!

[Rappelbox]

@kiwibri: 5V connector is separate from the 2nd psu connector.

@roar: unnecessary to wire al of them. Normally you just need signal/no-signal detection.
All other wires are used for control of coin door switch etc. it detects in real machines wether the switch is broken/defective or not. Plus, in some machines, it's kind of 3 way switch.

Greetings,
Dom

[mjr]

 

I was thinking about if it wouldn't be easier and much more convenient to replace these two with the old standard HDD connector (IDE, also known as molex), since it's still supplied with generic PC power supplies?!

 

 Maybe the connector is more generic because MJR imagined the pinscape board at the front of the cab and the PSUs tend to be located at the rear of the cab, so an extension of some sort is required to be wired up? 

 

That's basically it - I figure you're going to have to add your own wires anyway since the PSU cables are only about 2' long.  Plus space is tight on the expansion boards.

How the heck do you wire up that coin door switch, it has 6 connectors on it!

 

@roar: unnecessary to wire al of them. Normally you just need signal/no-signal detection.
All other wires are used for control of coin door switch etc. it detects in real machines wether the switch is broken/defective or not. Plus, in some machines, it's kind of 3 way switch.

 

Right, the 6-wire switch is basically two separate switches that operate in parallel.

 

On the real machines, they use one of the two switches for a high-voltage interlock.  The high voltage playfield wiring (50V for the flippers and other coils) runs through the normally open side of the switch, which is (confusingly) normally closed, because the closed coin door pushes the switch in.  When you open the door, the switch releases, breaking the normally open side and cutting off power to the playfield high voltage.  It's there to protect careless operators from electrocuting themselves when opening the cab.  (Well, it's *really* there to protect Williams from the medical bills the careless operators send them after electrocuting themselves when opening the cab.)

 

That leaves the other half of the switch for the ROM signal telling the software when the coin door is open.

 

For virtual pinball use, you don't really need the high-voltage interlock because we don't tend to have high voltages in the first place.  If you're using real pinball coils with a 50V supply, and you want to add a measure of protection, you could follow the lead of the real guys and use the interlock.

 

For the VPinMAME coin door switch, just wire one set of terminals like this:

 

button controller common --->  COM 1 on the switch

button controller 'END' button port --->  NC 1 on the switch

 

Use the NC = Normally Closed side because of the reversed sensing - the switch is "on" when the door is closed and "off" when it's open.

Edited by mjr, 29 March 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[Rappelbox]

Plus space is tight on the expansion boards.

I know, I've built some...

[marie]

I've got a question concerning connecting my RGB-flipper leds to the pinscape main board. Is the underlying scheme correct for my common anode leds? 

 

[mjr]

I've got a question concerning connecting my RGB-flipper leds to the pinscape main board. Is the underlying scheme correct for my common anode leds? 

 

Yes, that looks right.  The resistors are optional, so you can leave them out entirely if it's convenient.  I know people tell you ALWAYS USE THE RESISTORS! ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!, but this is an exception.  Those outputs have built-in current limiting, so you can connect the LEDs directly with no resistors and they'll still be limited to the correct current.  The current limit is set by R5 on the expansion board.  If you used the default 2.2K for R5, those outputs are throttled at 20mA, which is the typical requirement for small LEDs.  The

[kiwiBri]

Finally wiring up the buttons.. so  I kinda got to laugh a bit about this..  So I spent about 1hr crimping some test crimps and then went ahead and crimped up 20 odd lengths of wire for the 26 pin header.. to find out that my 22AWG wire looks to be too big for the molex connector! agh! I tried to squeeze it thinner and jam it into the hole but the crimp connector would not go all the way in. Its now 1:30am and I dont have any other wire or many spare crimp connectors. I went to plan "B". Use my rainbow coloured "Dupont" cable, and connect 3 short lengths end to end to make a two 10 wire ribbon cable. The 1x1 pins stay locked into the header due to friction. Done in 30mins! Dang  late night.. 3am in bed..

The plan is to connect them to a terminal block and then back out to the buttons. I'll post more details in my build thread when I do my next update. 

[Rappelbox]

Yeah, wiring all buttons, leds, etc is a real pain in the a...! But after you're done you'll never regret it.

I was thinking about a secondary breakout board with screw terminals or similar. Any suggestions anyone?

Dom

[kiwiBri]

Yeah, wiring all buttons, leds, etc is a real pain in the a...! But after you're done you'll never regret it.

I was thinking about a secondary breakout board with screw terminals or similar. Any suggestions anyone?

Dom

 

I am planning to just use a terminal strip/block. I crimped connectors to the switch wires now, so I just need to connect to the terminal strip/block then do the same with the leads to the pinscape.  Hopefully the wire fits the other connectors I have for the RGBs and strobe outputs. 

I'm assuming I just need to connect the wires from the Pinscape , then when I set up the pinscape, I just go through and assign pinscape button 1..25 etc to a function base how I have set up my wiring.?

[kiwiBri]

So I started reading from page one.. working my way through yet again.. I'm starting to understand how all this stuff is put together..  because I am a visual learning person, I am trying to picture (pun intended) how the boards are powered.  I plan to use another PC power supply for the secondary power supply for my toys (shaker, RGBs, LEDs, strobes etc etc) 

 

Here is how I *THINK* its supposed to be hooked up for what I want to do... ???

 

 

 

 

 Can someone confirm, comment etc?  Thanks so much!!

 

ps- sorry about the poor diagram!  

Edited by kiwiBri, 03 May 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[mjr]

That's 

 

So I started reading from page one.. working my way through yet again.. I'm starting to understand how all this stuff is put together..  because I am a visual learning person, I am trying to picture (pun intended) how the boards are powered.  I plan to use another PC power supply for the secondary power supply for my toys (shaker, RGBs, LEDs, strobes etc etc) 

 

Here is how I *THINK* its supposed to be hooked up for what I want to do... ???

 

 

Your diagram looks right to me, except for the wire color conventions.   On the standard PC PSU connectors, yellow is +12V and red is +5V.  (You could always test with a voltmeter just to make sure your PSU isn't wired differently, but I'd be really surprised since it's so standardized.)

Edited by mjr, 03 May 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[kiwiBri]

 

 

Your diagram looks right to me, except for the wire color conventions.   On the standard PC PSU connectors, yellow is +12V and red is +5V.  (You could always test with a voltmeter just to make sure your PSU isn't wired differently, but I'd be really surprised since it's so standardized.)

 

 

Thanks MJR!  lol

 

One more -   I drew up how I understand the outputs are to be used..Ie. in the diagram below (with the incorrect colours for the wire  )   I have used a RGB LED as an example. My understanding is that you connect the +12v, +24v, +5v or whatever is powering the device to the device, then from the powerboard you connect one line back to the device via a fuse for added protection. 

In the below example the LED needs resistors inline , and also 3 lines for Red Green Blue...  

 

 

 

Similar connection for a shaker, or beacon flasher etc. ..

 

actually, for example, can you connect hi power item like a 24v compactor this way? given that there is a step-up board to go 12v->24v then connect the contactor to the +24v line would you connect it to the pinscape power board in the same way as the other devices? ie. to output port?

Edited by kiwiBri, 03 May 2017 - 05:54 PM.

[mjr]

One more -   I drew up how I understand the outputs are to be used..Ie. in the diagram below (with the incorrect colours for the wire  )   I have used a RGB LED as an example. My understanding is that you connect the +12v, +24v, +5v or whatever is powering the device to the device, then from the powerboard you connect one line back to the device via a fuse for added protection. 

In the below example the LED needs resistors inline , and also 3 lines for Red Green Blue...  

 

That all looks right.

 

(I know you're just using the flasher by way of example, but I want to point out that for your *actual* flashers, you'll probably want to use the dedicated flasher outputs on the main board instead of power board outputs.  The main board flasher outputs are lower powered than the power board outputs, so they're perfect for flashers but not beefy enough for some of the bigger toys.  You *can* connect flashers to the power board outputs if you want, but that kind of wastes the dedicated flasher outputs.)

 

 

Similar connection for a shaker, or beacon flasher etc. ..

 

actually, for example, can you connect hi power item like a 24v compactor this way? given that there is a step-up board to go 12v->24v then connect the contactor to the +24v line would you connect it to the pinscape power board in the same way as the other devices? ie. to output port?

 

Right, the same basic wiring pattern applies to all devices.  The MOSFETs are safe for up to about 50V for the device power supply.

 

Remember to use diodes for motors, contactors, solenoids, knockers, etc - basically anything with a magnetic coil or motor.  (See http://mjrnet.org/pi...php?sid=diodes)

[kiwiBri]

 

 

(I know you're just using the flasher by way of example, but I want to point out that for your *actual* flashers, you'll probably want to use the dedicated flasher outputs on the main board instead of power board outputs.  The main board flasher outputs are lower powered than the power board outputs, so they're perfect for flashers but not beefy enough for some of the bigger toys.  You *can* connect flashers to the power board outputs if you want, but that kind of wastes the dedicated flasher outputs.)

 

:

 

Right, the same basic wiring pattern applies to all devices.  The MOSFETs are safe for up to about 50V for the device power supply.

 

Remember to use diodes for motors, contactors, solenoids, knockers, etc - basically anything with a magnetic coil or motor.  (See http://mjrnet.org/pi...php?sid=diodes)

 

 

 

thanks MJR. Feeling confident now I am understanding everything. So much information online for other expansion boards that I just wanted to be sure in regards to Pinscape. 

I thought something was not quite right when drawing up the diagram - forgot about the dedicated RGB outputs on the Mainboard. - I think I was just reading about Roar's implementation of flashing buttons from the mainboard early on in this thread that I forgot.  

 

I have a bunch of the 4007 diodes for the devices .  Oh, and if anyone else  hasn't looked yet, take a look at the .pdf schematic in the Pinscape project  (http://mjrnet.org/pi...rd/download.php ) There's good information in the comments contained in the schematic drawings. 

 

thanks again.

[kiwiBri]

 

(I know you're just using the flasher by way of example, but I want to point out that for your *actual* flashers, you'll probably want to use the dedicated flasher outputs on the main board instead of power board outputs.  The main board flasher outputs are lower powered than the power board outputs, so they're perfect for flashers but not beefy enough for some of the bigger toys.  You *can* connect flashers to the power board outputs if you want, but that kind of wastes the dedicated flasher outputs.)

 

 

 

 

Question 1: if using the mainboard for the LED flashers, do I still need fuses for each line out ? (I have some 500ma ones) or is there some sort of protection/limit from the boards? (I'm assuming the pins of the header are in R-G-B order ie. pin 2-4-6 are R G B  etc as the schematic describes them. I'll most likely power them from the Pinscape board via pin #15.

 

Question 2: When I run 5v from the Main PC to the Pinscape & power boards, do these have to be from 2 different Peripheral outputs on the PC PSU  or is 5v from one line ok to be shared to both pinscape connections?

Edited by kiwiBri, 04 May 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[mjr]

Question 1: if using the mainboard for the LED flashers, do I still need fuses for each line out ? (I have some 500ma ones) or is there some sort of protection/limit from the boards?

 

Fuses are still a good idea - there aren't any fuses built in to any of the board outlets - but I don't think they're an absolute must for LEDs.  The LEDs themselves already act like short circuits when they're operating normally - that's why we need those resistors inline - so it's not like they're going to make things worse if they malfunction.  Really the main reason to have fuses on these is to protect against human error (dropping a screwdriver while the power is on and shorting something out, say) or similar mechanical problems (a wire shakes itself loose and shorts something out).  In practice, the chances of those sorts of problems are pretty puny if you take reasonable precautions like turning the power off when working inside the cab and securing your wires well.

 

For the bigger devices like solenoids and motors, there's some chance that the device itself could malfunction and cause an overload, so fuses on those are justified even without extreme paranoia.

 

 

Question 2: When I run 5v from the Main PC to the Pinscape & power boards, do these have to be from 2 different Peripheral  outputs or is 5v from one line ok to be shared to both pinscape connections?

 

They can be shared or separate.  It all ends up wired together as a shared connection anyway no matter how you do it, since all of the 5V wires connect together inside the power supply.  (Likewise, all of the 12V wires connect together inside the PSU, and all of the 0V/GND wires connect together.  The various plugs and wires coming out of the PSU are just for the sake of convenience; they're not electrically isolated in any way.)  The way I did was built my own connector that plugs into a single PSU output on one end, and then branches off to connect to each Pinscape power input.

[kiwiBri]

MJR, thanks for the feedback.  I had the same thoughts about the fuses and LEDs. From memory your cab has 2 sets of RGB flashers. Did you just wire them in series . Ie For RGB1 , Red1 is connected to RED2 on RGB2, same for BLUE1->BLUE2 and GREEN1->GREEN2.

[mjr]

MJR, thanks for the feedback.  I had the same thoughts about the fuses and LEDs. From memory your cab has 2 sets of RGB flashers. Did you just wire them in series . Ie For RGB1 , Red1 is connected to RED2 on RGB2, same for BLUE1->BLUE2 and GREEN1->GREEN2.

 

Mine are wired in parallel (I hope my ASCII art makes sense):

 

+5V -------  + Red LED 1 - --resistor ---------- output port

        |                                                       |

        ------- + Red LED  2 - --resistor -------

 

With parallel wiring, use a separate resistor for each LED.  The resistor value is the same in this case as if you're wiring just one LED, so you can add a second (and third) set to an existing system later if you want.  Note that each LED you add in parallel adds to the total current through the output port - if it's 350mA per LED, the port will be handling 700mA with two LEDs in parallel and 1050mA with three LEDs in parallel.  The expansion board flasher outputs are good to 1.5A (1500mA) each, so they can handle three or even four in parallel.

 

 

Wiring them in series is also possible, but you'll probably have to go to 12V instead of 5V and use a different resistor value:

 

+12V --------- + Red LED 1 - -------- + Red LED 2 - ----- resistor ---- output port

 

To figure the proper resistance, use a multi-LED calculator (e.g., http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz), and tell it you have two LEDs.  

 

With series wiring, it's the voltage drop that's additive instead of the current, which is why you'll probably have to increase the supply voltage to 12V.  The green and blue LEDs usually drop 3.2V to 3.4V, so two of them in series drops 6.4V to 6.8V.  The supply voltage has to be higher than the total voltage drop of the LEDs, so 5V won't cut it with two in series.  (The reds are usually around 2.2 to 2.4, so you actually can get away with 5V for two of those, but it obviously complicates the wiring to use different voltages for the different segments.)  The current stays fixed at the single LED current (probably 350mA) in this case, so you don't have to worry about additional load on the output port.