1002 replies to this topic

[perplexicon]

T2 issues are (at a guess) due to the way it's rendering a custom flipper over the 'actual' flippers, I guess the scripting logic might be thrown a little by the updates and it doesn't render correctly under certain conditions? I see this on a bunch of recent tables that use custom flipper drawing/logic tinkering.

 

T2 does play rather splendidly though with a bit of tuning!

[Arcade4]

Just loaded the Abracadabra table to play with the settings. Had some success and some failure.

Here is what I could find and change easily using the "Crash Course"  and what I could not find and change  

 

 

Crash course to adjusting physics parameters for this version (numbers are rough starting values):

1. Backdrop > Physics & Graphics: set Gravity to 1; set Playfield Friction to 0.1 (No Problems here, very easy to find and set)
2. Make sure the table slope is correctly set (6-6.5 on most modern tables)  (Could not find this setting)
3. Select the flippers and adjust the physics parameters: Mass 1-2, Strength around 1000-3000, Elasticity 0.8-0.9, Friction 0.8, Return Strength Ratio 0.10  (No problems, easy to find and set)
4. Due to the extra energy needed to get the ball rolling, plungers, slingshots, bumpers, etc., typically all need to have their force upped by 20-40%. (Major problem here. Guess I need a walk through on this part) Clicking on the pop bumpers did not bring up anything useful. Same goes slingshots.

[slashbot]

Tableslope settings are under options --) physics For abracadabra i use these flipper settings see photo Also make sure tableslope is set to 4,4 For me these settings are perfect im getting a score around 200.000 points now. Anyone knows how to fix the script error on banzai run it happend with the new test2, on test1 it worked? Also anyone intrested in a modded version of the key west bingo machine, i modded al the rubbers so its more bouncy and more fun to play?

Attached Files

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•  ImageUploadedByTapatalkHD1397517706.507020.jpg   144.72KB   16 downloads

Edited by slashbot, 14 April 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[BigBoss]

I found out the the Delta Quarant ramp in STTNG has almost the same problem as the whirl pool ramp in WH2O - very difficult to shoot the ramp and sometimes the ball has an really odd behavior. Sometimes it falls off the wire ramp! And sometimes it appears on a other position after (almost) completing the ramp. Like the "ghost"-problem other users noticed in T2 or TAF. Sometimes the ball is stuck on the uppermost part of the ramp. Weird! Maybe you can look what's the problem there?

I played this game a while last night and it worked great. What are you physics settings and which table? I used:

Table pitch 6.5/6.5
Table physics: 1.0 / 0.1
Flippers: 1.0 / 3500 / .9 / .8 / .1

The game start tries to load 3 balls into the subway. It loads only one and then the balls it ejected were missing. Finally the software lets me start anyway and everything works great.

Found a little problem in t2 1.07 with the new physicsversion sometimes the ball goes straight trough the flippers, like the flippers dont exist.Can anyone confirm this?All the tables i did in the previous version have to be recalibrated anyway the physicsmod its still in a testing phase so no blame.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I have a different t2. I'm not sure how to tell which but it is one of the best playing tables. Maybe we should compare our two versions?

[Arcade4]

Thanks Slashbot.

Now how do you get to the Pop Bumpers, slingshots and the like to make them stronger? And what settings seem to be working best if I can ever get to their respective settings?

[DHogsett]

I exported the physics from the original Demo table posted by mukuste, and then changed the slope to 4.5 for Abra-Ca-Dabra and it really does play well, it keeps me coming back again and again. I attached the physics file from the original demo table just incase you cant find it (im sure its posted elsewhere as well)

[ClarkKent]

 

I found out the the Delta Quarant ramp in STTNG has almost the same problem as the whirl pool ramp in WH2O - very difficult to shoot the ramp and sometimes the ball has an really odd behavior. Sometimes it falls off the wire ramp! And sometimes it appears on a other position after (almost) completing the ramp. Like the "ghost"-problem other users noticed in T2 or TAF. Sometimes the ball is stuck on the uppermost part of the ramp. Weird! Maybe you can look what's the problem there?

I played this game a while last night and it worked great. What are you physics settings and which table? I used:

Table pitch 6.5/6.5
Table physics: 1.0 / 0.1
Flippers: 1.0 / 3500 / .9 / .8 / .1

The game start tries to load 3 balls into the subway. It loads only one and then the balls it ejected were missing. Finally the software lets me start anyway and everything works great.

I'm playing teppotee's VP920 HD GI 1.1 MOD. The new values are really better to play but the problem with the delta quadrant ramp is still there. I experienced that as soon as the ball passes the diverter on the uppermost part of the ramp, the ball suddenly appears on the lower right exit of the wire ramp (without rolling the way down there on the wire ramp)! There must be some kind of a bug with this specific version of VP in combination with this table. Can somebody check this?

 

Edit: I just got a script error on right that place: Line 1817 Overflow "Cint" (in rascal's ball rolling script). This must be the reason!?

Edited by ClarkKent, 15 April 2014 - 06:17 PM.

[Ahigh]

Nice job on going to higher frequencies.  I recently wrote a post on another forum that I linked to from this forum (in a post about display motion artifacts) explaining how to do just this type of thing.

 

 

Here's a big smile from me a few days ago when I saw my patented "arcade keypad" in one of the latest coin-op games.

I love seeing stuff like this.  BIG THUMBS UP!!!  And good job!

 

I also made the changes from tying the physics update to the graphical framerate on Visual Pinball in 2005 to updating multiple iterations when the framerate drops before handing the physics over to another coworker at UltraCade, as well as implementing visual-framerate independent game update loops in multiple production games over the last couple of decades.

 

Before the changes I made in Visual Pinball, VP was COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE in multiball due to framerate issues with the graphics.  IE: it actually was worse than until 2005 believe it or not!

Edited by Ahigh, 16 April 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[gogo69]

have to say the new physics change everything for me , it adds so much new feel to the tables it is incredible !

thank you very much mukuste !

 

it's time for a happy dance

Edited by gogo69, 16 April 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Pinball999]

The new physics really change the experience, BUT.. I'm having some serious stutter with it, and also with the latest non official DX9 builds.

It's not the case though with the official 9.2.1 or the DX9test 13.

 

I've read somewhere that someone else had the same problem, but wanted to check if more people were in this situation.

[zeenon]

The new physics really change the experience, BUT.. I'm having some serious stutter with it, and also with the latest non official DX9 builds.

It's not the case though with the official 9.2.1 or the DX9test 13.

 

I've read somewhere that someone else had the same problem, but wanted to check if more people were in this situation.

 

I also see a very very small micro stutter on the VP_Phymod, but to tell you the truth I just dropped it into my vpinball dir and started to play so there may be a setting I have to tweak. No stutter on any of the other versions especially the lastest DX9 r980 (I think) which is what I've been playing now.

 

Z

[rockyrocket]

So here is something different,

I just placed the phymod exe in my perfectly working vp install and now the right flipper button is not seen?.

Works fine in all the other emu`s` and is still mapped correctly to R shift , but if I try to remap it then hit R shift then Vp just will not see it?.

Works fine in unit3d, but neither test13 or 9.2.1 recognize a keypress anymore?.

Anyone have any insight into this?.

[ckovanda]

I still can't get physmod to run.  if I run it as admin, it won't even get to the editor window, it will just give me an endless hourglass and show up as a process in the task manager that you can't kill without rebooting. 

if I run it as a non-admin, it will at least open to the editor window, but trying to open a file won't show any "open file" window and eventually the editor window will just disappear and again i'm left with a process in the task manager that I can't kill without rebooting the computer.

 

I really would like to try out this mod.  I've been using VP and dx9 versions without any problems.

[mukuste]

Nice job on going to higher frequencies.  I recently wrote a post on another forum that I linked to from this forum (in a post about display motion artifacts) explaining how to do just this type of thing.

 

 

What post? I couldn't find anything in your history, but I guess you were talking about display framerate, not the physics timestep?

 

So you worked on the initial VP9 version at UltraCade?

 

 

 

The new physics really change the experience, BUT.. I'm having some serious stutter with it, and also with the latest non official DX9 builds.

It's not the case though with the official 9.2.1 or the DX9test 13.

 

I've read somewhere that someone else had the same problem, but wanted to check if more people were in this situation.

 

 

All the latest DX9 versions (beyond Test13) use their own registry key, so you'll have to set up all the options again. Make sure that everything is identical.

 

 

I still can't get physmod to run.  if I run it as admin, it won't even get to the editor window, it will just give me an endless hourglass and show up as a process in the task manager that you can't kill without rebooting. 

if I run it as a non-admin, it will at least open to the editor window, but trying to open a file won't show any "open file" window and eventually the editor window will just disappear and again i'm left with a process in the task manager that I can't kill without rebooting the computer.

 

I really would like to try out this mod.  I've been using VP and dx9 versions without any problems.

 

Unfortunately I have no idea what those weird crashes are about. Are those on Win8.1 again? Do the latest revXXX builds in the DX9 thread work for you?

Tableslope settings are under options --) physics For abracadabra i use these flipper settings see photo Also make sure tableslope is set to 4,4 For me these settings are perfect im getting a score around 200.000 points now. Anyone knows how to fix the script error on banzai run it happend with the new test2, on test1 it worked? Also anyone intrested in a modded version of the key west bingo machine, i modded al the rubbers so its more bouncy and more fun to play?

 

For Banzai Run, just comment that line out. The MaxBallSpeed option doesn't exist anymore.

Edited by mukuste, 16 April 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[Ahigh]

Here's the post on the other forum where I described 1000 Hz game update and updating independent of the visuals:

 

http://forums.blurbu...ic.php?f=7&t=59

 

I was hopeful you had found that because of the coincidence of the timing but it sounds as if you already knew or figured it out on your own.

 

In any case, great job!  And yes, I am the programmer that made the initial changes to VP for cabinets.

 

Here's another post describing some of my history with Visual Pinball and UltraPin.

 

http://forums.blurbu...ic.php?f=2&t=17

 

We also hired Stephen Riesenberger at NanoTech Gaming Labs a few weeks ago and he's working with me now too (he's shown playing Steve Ritchie's AFM at Atari).

Edited by Ahigh, 16 April 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[mukuste]

Here's the post on the other forum where I described 1000 Hz game update and updating independent of the visuals:

 

http://forums.blurbu...ic.php?f=7&t=59

 

I was hopeful you had found that because of the coincidence of the timing but it sounds as if you already knew or figured it out on your own.

 

In any case, great job!  And yes, I am the programmer that made the initial changes to VP for cabinets.

 

It's funny that you write "But to be clear, if the graphical update rate changes how the game plays, in my humble opinion, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!" when VP9 did exactly that

 

No, I didn't read your post before... it's not even about the inputs, it's simply making the physics simulation more accurate and stable by using a smaller timestep. I don't know why you're talking it up to be some black art, it's literally changing a timestep constant from a larger value to a smaller value and recompiling. Getting the actual physics right (ball spin, flipper mechanics etc) is the challenging part and the meat and potatoes of this mod.

 

Perhaps the vertical throw of the ball has not yet been implemented or not working properly, the ball does not move when the kicker shoots upwards (eg VUK).
Re-launching the table several times the frames dropping down progressively.
 

Thank you very much, this is another big step.

 

Max

The VUK to work needs a lot of upward thrust to overcome the force of gravity.
With the strength launch to 150, the kicker2 almost does not move the ball, with one more unit 151 fires a missile.
Below I have attached the default table with the addition of VUK.

 

Thanks

 

Max

 

default-table-physmod-VUK.vpt

 

 

Thanks for the test table. It seems to work fine when setting inclination (the 3rd parameter to Kick) to something close to 90 degrees, but not quite, e.g.:

 	Kicker2.Kick 0,40,89.5

It seems when the angle is very close to 90°, the ball gets caught in the kicker immediately again. I'll have a look at it when I have time.

[ckovanda]

I still can't get physmod to run.  if I run it as admin, it won't even get to the editor window, it will just give me an endless hourglass and show up as a process in the task manager that you can't kill without rebooting. 

if I run it as a non-admin, it will at least open to the editor window, but trying to open a file won't show any "open file" window and eventually the editor window will just disappear and again i'm left with a process in the task manager that I can't kill without rebooting the computer.

 

I really would like to try out this mod.  I've been using VP and dx9 versions without any problems.

 

Unfortunately I have no idea what those weird crashes are about. Are those on Win8.1 again? Do the latest revXXX builds in the DX9 thread work for you?

 

I'm running win 7, I haven't tried the newest dx9 build, the last build i was using was version 12 just before you took a break from that project.  I'll try the newest version tonight and see what happens.

[Ahigh]

 

Here's the post on the other forum where I described 1000 Hz game update and updating independent of the visuals:

 

http://forums.blurbu...ic.php?f=7&t=59

 

I was hopeful you had found that because of the coincidence of the timing but it sounds as if you already knew or figured it out on your own.

 

In any case, great job!  And yes, I am the programmer that made the initial changes to VP for cabinets.

 

It's funny that you write "But to be clear, if the graphical update rate changes how the game plays, in my humble opinion, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!" when VP9 did exactly that

 

No, I didn't read your post before... it's not even about the inputs, it's simply making the physics simulation more accurate and stable by using a smaller timestep. I don't know why you're talking it up to be some black art, it's literally changing a timestep constant from a larger value to a smaller value and recompiling. Getting the actual physics right (ball spin, flipper mechanics etc) is the challenging part and the meat and potatoes of this mod.

 

Thanks for the response.  I think.  .. (?)  LOL.  I wish I had time for these forums, really.  Good luck to all you guys and back to the grindstone for me.

Edited by Ahigh, 16 April 2014 - 05:14 PM.

[rockyrocket]

Fixed my right flipper issue - seems that installing physics mod 2 without first installing mod one was the cause.

Installed ver1 and could then use the right flipper on all the other Vp versions again.

 

Oh and thanks for all the hard work going into this!.

Edited by rockyrocket, 16 April 2014 - 05:59 PM.

[BigBoss]

I have been avoiding reporting things as bugs that are table specific. On Independence Day and Apollo 13, the ball never appears in the shooter lane with this version. Anyone have an idea how to fix (at the table level) or why?