4027 replies to this topic

[topper2k]

Is it expected that the 10.7 beta might result in slower table load times? Or am I just imagining it's slower?

My experience is the opposite. Loading seems slightly snappier

Hmmm... definitely not faster. I'll have to take a deep dive into the settings to make sure everything is the same.

It seems like it takes V0X itself longer to open and close.

[RusstyT]

 

Hi VP7 development team.

Id like to do some graphics and light adjustments for Wizball's ShovelKnight Table but Im unable to see the background image in VP7. Can you please give me some advice around the current playfield image view in the Editor

I ticked playfield image but  the image is not shown in the editor. Also there is no thumb nail image shown in the image manager like in VP6.  Is there something Im overlooking.

 

As a side note. I'm blown away by the direction this new software is heading virtual pinball. I cant stop playing JPs 3.0 tables. When opened the Pokerz and Gamatron tables I felt like Id unwrapped brand new real machines. They play. look and sound incredible.

 

Cheers and thank you for your help

RusstyT

 

VP7_RusstyT_4_6_21.png

 

Do not launch table to open for editing

Right click table file and pick Edit

 

Or open VPX and click file > Open

 

If you flat out launch a table, VPX opens in kind of dedicated play mode and it does not show editor graphics etc

 

Thankyou

[wiesshund]

I do not know that this is 100% 10.7 beta issue as 10.6 has it's own share of FSS issues but

 

If Table1.ShowFSS

 

this will only be true if fss bg space is check, and test DT is unchecked
which makes sense but....

 

If you set the POV of FSS, you have DT unchecked
you launch table, it tests great, all is well
You save table.

 

When you open later, test DT will be rechecked
the POV will be correct, but now table1.showFSS will be FALSE
so any showDT parts that you set to hide etc if ShowFSS = True, well they will of course not hide

So....

 

If you uncheck Test DT
The POV numbers will all remain correct BUT

the table depiction itself, will pop into the FS POV (And so will the table itself if you launch it)

 

and the only way to cure this with out botching everything up is to

hit F6, then quit to editor

then click in each POV entry field and simply hit enter, dont change any values, just click in each field and hit enter

now table will go back like you had it

 

Now you can hit play, and it is exactly how you had set it up

 

This is with the FSS table in 270 degree rotation

 

I do not seem to recall it being quite as flaky in 10.6 but maybe it is?

 

As a stop gap fix, could vpx be adjusted so that if show fss bg is checked then showDT is automatically 0 whether test DT is checked or not?
I know FSS is not that popular so does not warrant a lot of time spent on it, but maybe a little stop gap fix would prevent a few people from pulling their hair out

Edited by wiesshund, 06 June 2021 - 12:32 AM.

[topper2k]

Hmmm... 10.7 is definitely slower to load on my system. Average table start time is 25-30 seconds. With 10.6 I'm getting 12-15 second load times.

 

I checked the video settings and they're all identical between the two versions. I made sure I added an exception to Windows Defender for Visual Pinball 10.7.0 (plus I have an exception on the entire visual pinball folder).

 

What else might cause this? I know it might seem trivial, but when you're used to 12 second table loads, 30 seconds feels like eternity.

[wiesshund]

Hmmm... 10.7 is definitely slower to load on my system. Average table start time is 25-30 seconds. With 10.6 I'm getting 12-15 second load times.

 

I checked the video settings and they're all identical between the two versions. I made sure I added an exception to Windows Defender for Visual Pinball 10.7.0 (plus I have an exception on the entire visual pinball folder).

 

What else might cause this? I know it might seem trivial, but when you're used to 12 second table loads, 30 seconds feels like eternity.

 

10.7 does load longer, but it also seems to avoid having to load textures mid table, which 10.6 can do if a table swaps textures to ones that were not preloaded

[jpsalas]

Hmmm... 10.7 is definitely slower to load on my system. Average table start time is 25-30 seconds. With 10.6 I'm getting 12-15 second load times.

 

I checked the video settings and they're all identical between the two versions. I made sure I added an exception to Windows Defender for Visual Pinball 10.7.0 (plus I have an exception on the entire visual pinball folder).

 

What else might cause this? I know it might seem trivial, but when you're used to 12 second table loads, 30 seconds feels like eternity.

 

Don't run VPX 10.7 as administrator, if you do there will be an extra delay after the table is loaded before it runs. I used to run Total Commander as administrator to have access to all the c: drive in case I need to change anything. I have VPX as shortcuts in TC and that resulted in VPX 10.7 also running as administrator. That resulted in longer  running times than compared to 10.6. Some tables took longer than others. toxie and fuzzel never found out why this is happening, maybe it is a Windows thing doing the delay. So run VPX with normal user rights, and it will run the tables slightly faster than 10.6

Edited by jpsalas, 06 June 2021 - 03:23 AM.

[topper2k]

Thanks JP and Weisshund. I'm not running either version of VPX as admin. 10.7 is definitely doubling my table load times.

I've triple checked the video settings and they're identical for both versions.

I made sure 10.7 has an exception in Windows Defender. Not sure what else to try.

[Thalamus]

@topper2k : It can be anything really. If I remember correctly. Having teamviewer active was one users problem. So, take a look at other things running. It can be a good thing to run process explorer from system internals. If you see many calls from programs that are NOT VP when you run it, it might be the culprit.

[topper2k]

@topper2k : It can be anything really. If I remember correctly. Having teamviewer active was one users problem. So, take a look at other things running. It can be a good thing to run process explorer from system internals. If you see many calls from programs that are NOT VP when you run it, it might be the culprit.

Ok, I'll try that.

 

I have determined it's not Windows Defender. I disabled Defender and also tried installing BitDefender. Neither solved the problem.

 

I did a little testing and the delay seems to be in 10.7 loading the table file itself. 10.7 opens just as quickly as 10.6. And when I hit F5 to launch the table, 10.7 and 10.6 start the game within 8-10 seconds.

 

But when 10.7 tries to open the .vpx file, it takes 10+ seconds longer than 10.6 does to open the same file.

[gtxjoe]

 

I've had a go at using 10.7 as an editor and an immediate problem I've found was that the quick access filenames in the file dropdown are truncated more than they were in 10.6, and as I use version numbers as I version bump WIP tables I can no longer see them because they're over the limit.

 

If they need to be truncated could they at least show the end and clip the beginning, or for preference just revert to like 10.6 and show all the filename?

I tried my best to do this, but somehow the new UI refuses to comply..  :/

 

 

I just started using VPX7 beta again and I ran into this issue immediately also.  As an author, I think it makes the Recent Files list unusable, but probably not an issue for players. 

 

Is there another workaround possible?  Maybe tooltips to hover and get full filename or strip path and just display filename.  If not possible, it's okay, the File Open dialog will have to do

[topper2k]

OK, here's a video showing the load lag I'm experiencing. First is 10.7, you'll see Windows task manager register the VP process as "not responding" for a little while. Next is VP 10.6, which doesn't show a similar lag. I don't see anything unexpected launching in task manager and system resources aren't getting maxed out. Any idea what would cause 10.7 to not respond during table load?

 

Edited by topper2k, 06 June 2021 - 03:59 PM.

[Thalamus]

Any reason you didn't follow my advice ?

[topper2k]

Thought I was! Trying to watch what other processes are running when I try to load a table. I must have misunderstood.

[Thalamus]

https://docs.microso...rocess-explorer

 

A lot of great utilities there.

Edited by Thalamus, 06 June 2021 - 07:05 PM.

[toxie]

Could you also please try using the command line parameter "-LessCPUthreads" ?

[topper2k]

Could you also please try using the command line parameter "-LessCPUthreads" ?

This didn't make any difference. Will install Process Explorer and try that, probably tonight or tomorrow.

[wiesshund]

 

@topper2k : It can be anything really. If I remember correctly. Having teamviewer active was one users problem. So, take a look at other things running. It can be a good thing to run process explorer from system internals. If you see many calls from programs that are NOT VP when you run it, it might be the culprit.

Ok, I'll try that.

 

I have determined it's not Windows Defender. I disabled Defender and also tried installing BitDefender. Neither solved the problem.

 

I did a little testing and the delay seems to be in 10.7 loading the table file itself. 10.7 opens just as quickly as 10.6. And when I hit F5 to launch the table, 10.7 and 10.6 start the game within 8-10 seconds.

 

But when 10.7 tries to open the .vpx file, it takes 10+ seconds longer than 10.6 does to open the same file.

 

on a quick not very scientific test

vpx 10.6.x
clicking file and picking 1st table in the list

about 6 sec to table loaded

 

vpx 10.7 latest revision

clicking file and picking same table from the recent list

about 10 sec to open (in total, not 10 sec extra)

 

It may have to do with 10.7 setting up more threads

 

Once loaded, actual launch time seems to be the same, with maybe a slight edge for 10.7
launch time of course varies depending on what a given table has to pre-render, simple tables faster than complex ones with lots of prims

[topper2k]

Ok, I think I'm out of my depth with Process Explorer. I can't tell what's going on here. But I have found the culprit...

Here's what I see in Process Explorer:
https://youtu.be/ePpTSFoQnx4

Even though I couldn't make sense of what I saw in Process Explorer, Thalamus's suggestion of looking at background processes put me on the right track.

I run a program called Display Fusion for desktop/screen profile management. It helps me switch some screens off for certain MAME games I'm also running on the cab.

If I turn DF off, VPX 10.7 is lightning fast. I don't know why 10.6 is OK with DF and 10.7 isn't. Nor do I know what I can do about it. But I know where the problem is.

It's a shame because Display Fusion solved some problems that seemed impossible to solve without it. I'd hate to go back to the drawing board again. But I suspect it's too much to expect the VPX devs to care about this niche case.

Edited by topper2k, 07 June 2021 - 01:04 AM.

[wiesshund]

Ok, I think I'm out of my depth with Process Explorer. I can't tell what's going on here. But I have found the culprit...

Here's what I see in Process Explorer:
https://youtu.be/ePpTSFoQnx4

Even though I couldn't make sense of what I saw in Process Explorer, Thalamus's suggestion of looking at background processes put me on the right track.

I run a program called Display Fusion for desktop/screen profile management. It helps me switch some screens off for certain MAME games I'm also running on the cab.

If I turn DF off, VPX 10.7 is lightning fast. I don't know why 10.6 is OK with DF and 10.7 isn't. Nor do I know what I can do about it. But I know where the problem is.

It's a shame because Display Fusion solved some problems that seemed impossible to solve without it. I'd hate to go back to the drawing board again. But I suspect it's too much to expect the VPX devs to care about this niche case.

 

So turn it one for MAME and off for VPX ?

though i am not sure why you need to turn screens off for mame

I run mame with 4 screens attached, i even config different games to play on a different screen, depending on horizontal or vertical

cyberball, i have run on 2 screens, one for player 1 and one for player 2

temco bowl, i have span 3 screens

etc

 

Mame generally has no issues with you having 40 screens, it will go where you tell it and do what you tell it

[toxie]

Interesting. Yes, we saw some very weird behavior already in the past with other background apps, so why not this new one, too? :/