38 replies to this topic

[SmilesLikeJoker]

Brand new person trying to figure out some of this stuff so any help is appreciated.

So.. I'm trying to play on a standard desktop (Win 11 if important).  I ran the latest installer according to the post (VPX72) and that went off without a hitch.  I put on the .exe's in admin as written.  Next, I started up VPinballX.exe and just loaded up the flex demo.  I knew I had setup my controller so I figured I'd get that sorted first.  That's where I'm stuck at.

I have a standard wired XBox controller.  I searched around to try and find what controller buttons correspond to 'Button's in VPX.  I couldn't find anything that just laid things out and all suggestions I could find just didn't work.  Well.. I figured I'd just do it the hard way.  I assigned Buttons 1 - 24 to the left flipper to see which was which.  My results were not what I was expecting..

- Only 10 buttons are recognized.  No buttons were recognized for the D pad at all or the big XBox logo button.
- The L2 and R2 are being recognized Z axis controls.  I had to play around to figure this out as the plunger was auto-assigned.
- Nudge was fine on X and Y axis controls.  Those are currently on the left analog stick.
- Moving the plunger to reverse Y axis put it on the right analog stick.

I'm trying to get my flippers on L2 and R2, but at a loss on how to do that since they are recognized as Z axis controls (can't pick them).  I'm also trying to get some functionality on my D pad.

Again... Any help is appreciated.

Smiles 

[Tesla]

1. I have a standard wired XBox controller.  I assigned Buttons 1 - 24 to the left flipper to see which was which.  My results were not what I was expecting. Only 10 buttons are recognized.  

 

2. - The L2 and R2 are being recognized Z axis controls.  I had to play around to figure this out as the plunger was auto-assigned.
- Nudge was fine on X and Y axis controls.  Those are currently on the left analog stick.
- Moving the plunger to reverse Y axis put it on the right analog stick.

3. I'm trying to get my flippers on L2 and R2, but at a loss on how to do that since they are recognized as Z axis controls (can't pick them).

 

4. I'm also trying to get some functionality on my D pad.
 

 

Let's see if we can get you going in the right-direction here ...

 

First ... don't be afraid to temporarily connect a keyboard and mouse during Visual Pinball setup. Keep a short list of main keys.

 

1. In Windows-11/Settings/Game Controller ... you should be able to see the Xbox-Controller and test it's buttons. Write down which are which.

 

2. All that sounds about right. In VPX/Prefs/Keys ... I thought you could assign a button for a function by starting the assignment and then clicking the actual button. 

 

3. Right ... seems like either the triggers or the shoulder-buttons would be appropriate. Plunger is often on analog joystick because a real plunger has motion.

 

You can play VPX-Tables with just these 6 buttons: 2-Flippers, Insert-Coin, Start, Launch-Ball and Menu-Back.

 

4. Well, there is no actual use for "cursor keys" on a pinball machine. But if you really want them ... it turns-out they are strange for some reason. If you really want them to work, you will need to install and configure JoyToKey . 

 

JoyToKey is also handy to remap any buttons and joysticks ... if you need to do it beyond what VPX allows natively. I suggest you only use JoyToKey if there is an actual reason-to because (while it's neat) it adds another-layer of complexity to your VPX installation. 

Edited by Tesla, 19 April 2023 - 03:59 PM.

[SmilesLikeJoker]

Thanks for the reply!

I'm not sure why, but there isn't any 'Game Controller' listed under Settings.  There is 'Gaming', but it's related to the XBox Gaming Bar and some other stuff.  The controller is listed under Devices, but 'Uninstall' is the only option.  However, just randomly playing around, I typed 'setup gaming controller' in the Start Window and found the right window to open lol.  This might come in handy if another newb like myself comes along lol.

Yep... I had the keys all figured out correctly.  Oddly enough, the D pad is listed as 'Point of View Hat' versus any type of button.  If I want to add functionality to the D pad or use L2 / R2 as the flippers, I will have to use mapping software of some sort.  I 'can' use the L1/R1 as the flippers, but it just doesn't feel right to me.

I'll check out JoyToKey to see if it is going to add the functionality I'm looking for.  I do like to keep things simple though...

Thanks Tesla!
Smiles

[Tesla]

1. I typed 'setup gaming controller' in the Start Window and found the right window to open lol.  

2. Oddly enough, the D pad is listed as 'Point of View Hat' versus any type of button. 

 

3. use L2 / R2 as the flippers, I will have to use mapping software of some sort.  I 'can' use the L1/R1 as the flippers, but it just doesn't feel right to me.

 

4. I'll check out JoyToKey to see if it is going to add the functionality I'm looking for.

 

1. Yes, that is one way (there are several ways).

 

2. Yes, it shows in Windows but they are separate/unique ... different than others (that's what I meant).

 

3. Again, not sure why you don't just assign the buttons YOU DO WANT TO USE in VPX/Prefs/Keys. That is the simple-way. Any button shown in the Windows-tool should be able to be configured into VPX directly/natively.

 

The exception would be if it doesn't let you for some reason, then yes ... you will need to use JoyToKey.

 

4. Good. No, it is not hard.

 

and also this:

 

https://wagnerstecht...setup/#JoyToKey

Edited by Tesla, 19 April 2023 - 06:48 PM.

[X Vector]

3. Again, not sure why you don't just assign the buttons YOU DO WANT TO USE in VPX/Prefs/Keys. That is the simple-way. Any button shown in the Windows-tool should be able to be configured into VPX directly/natively.

 

The exception would be if it doesn't let you for some reason, then yes ... you will need to use JoyToKey.

 

That's exactly the issue, the analogue triggers on the gamepad can't be directly mapped in VPX, which is something I wish can be remedied in a future release.

I'm using AntiMicro and that does the trick, but it would be preferable to be able to assign all functions of the controller directly.

[Tesla]

 

3. Again, not sure why you don't just assign the buttons YOU DO WANT TO USE in VPX/Prefs/Keys. That is the simple-way. Any button shown in the Windows-tool should be able to be configured into VPX directly/natively.

 

The exception would be if it doesn't let you for some reason, then yes ... you will need to use JoyToKey.

 

That's exactly the issue, the analogue triggers on the gamepad can't be directly mapped in VPX, which is something I wish can be remedied in a future release.

I'm using AntiMicro and that does the trick, but it would be preferable to be able to assign all functions of the controller directly.

 

 

I guess it's just a "feature request" that you might want to ask of VPX developers.

 

I think it is possible because games like Farsight's The Pinball Arcade and Zen's Pinball-FX3 allow it natively. 

 

I have an Xbox controller (but it's in the closet now-days). My connection to this issue:

When my ALP-cabinet is in OTG-Mode, all it's buttons and plunger are addressable though a on-board generic game-controller. Windows sees it as a generic HID-Interface and it ends-up being similar to how an Xbox-Controller is seen in Windows and even VPX.

 

All my buttons are viewable in Windows-tool, and therefore assignable directly in VPX. I think the reason why some Xbox buttons are (but the main-triggers are not) is because they are "two stage".

 

There is also the issue that all "Xbox Controllers" are not the same (but people like to group them all together). I think the older ones (like 360) are better suited for this use-case while the newer ones are more-intelligent and might still require additional software to work. I think this part is handled by whether or not Microsoft fully-supports said controller to be connected directly to a Windows computer for playing Windows-games (without 3rd-party software or hack).

Edited by Tesla, 20 April 2023 - 04:18 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

3. Again, not sure why you don't just assign the buttons YOU DO WANT TO USE in VPX/Prefs/Keys. That is the simple-way. Any button shown in the Windows-tool should be able to be configured into VPX directly/natively.

 

The exception would be if it doesn't let you for some reason, then yes ... you will need to use JoyToKey.

 

That's exactly the issue, the analogue triggers on the gamepad can't be directly mapped in VPX, which is something I wish can be remedied in a future release.

I'm using AntiMicro and that does the trick, but it would be preferable to be able to assign all functions of the controller directly.

 

 

You can
Put controller into Dinput mode

then shoulders will work native

[X Vector]

Using the shoulder buttons for the flipper function is not a viable option to me, mostly for ergonomic reasons (I use them to add coins and they work as is).

It's the analogue triggers and the d-pad that I'd like to see natively supported.

[wiesshund]

Using the shoulder buttons for the flipper function is not a viable option to me, mostly for ergonomic reasons (I use them to add coins and they work as is).

It's the analogue triggers and the d-pad that I'd like to see natively supported.

analog triggers ARE shoulder buttons
put controller in d-input mode and you will see

 

though personally, i would not use the digital shoulder buttons for coins
how will you play tables that require 4 flipper buttons?

 

X-Input needs a lot of work, analog shoulder buttons probably being the least of it
X-Input nudge does not even work presently

has to wait until toxie has time to play with that input api

[X Vector]

My analogue triggers aren't buttons, but parts of the Z axis (positive and negative halves).

As far as four seperate/independent flipper buttons go, I either haven't played such a table or the flippers were linked two by two.

I have recently played VPW's Starship Troopers (which is quite excellent BTW), where the right smaller flipper is activated by both the right magnasave and the lockbar button - respectively "B" and "home" on my Xbox 360 controller.

I've noticed analogue nudging doesn't work correctly, but the issues seem to be an enormous deadzone and the inability to nudge sideways.

In my case direct input has the same problems and even causes the table to (temporarily) go into bizarro physics/gravity mode after nudging.

[wiesshund]

My analogue triggers aren't buttons, but parts of the Z axis (positive and negative halves).

 

they are in d-input mode

 

 

As far as four seperate/independent flipper buttons go, I either haven't played such a table or the flippers were linked two by two.

 

Try playing something like haunted hotel where you have balls active on 2 playfield and 6 flippers in play, at the same time.

 

 

 

I've noticed analogue nudging doesn't work correctly, but the issues seem to be an enormous deadzone and the inability to nudge sideways.

In my case direct input has the same problems and even causes the table to (temporarily) go into bizarro physics/gravity mode after nudging.

 

No, Xinput nudging does not work at all, all roads lead to UP, all strengths lead to UP, everything leads to UP
D-Input does work though, you have to put controller in D-Input mode
AND

Set VPX to use D-Input API

 

And then use the nudge test table to adjust nudge parameters so you dont have nuclear powered nudging.

 

If you had a Logitech gamepad, you'd be in business, those you can program all kinds of nifty things, even progressive flippers on an analog axis.
With MS or generics, i think you are pretty much stuck with Xbox standard?

[Tesla]

My analogue triggers aren't buttons, but parts of the Z axis (positive and negative halves).

 

 

So, they are more like "Joysticks". That is why you use JoyToKey (it's actually in the name ... translate Joysticks To Keys of Keyboard). 

Edited by Tesla, 22 April 2023 - 04:31 AM.

[X Vector]

I already use AntiMicro for that; there's no issue binding the triggers to the shift keys that way, it would just be preferable if there was no need for these type of programs.

 

As for DirectInput, I can select that mode in the VPX preferences but I can't find any info on changing between XInput and DirectInput in my controller software (it's probably done automatically on that end).

Perhaps I should give the 10.7.4 beta a go:

 

 

FIXES:

• fix analogue nudge not working for joysticks/gamepads in XInput mode

   

Edited by X Vector, 22 April 2023 - 10:27 AM.

[wiesshund]

 

I already use AntiMicro for that; there's no issue binding the triggers to the shift keys that way, it would just be preferable if there was no need for these type of programs.

 

As for DirectInput, I can select that mode in the VPX preferences but I can't find any info on changing between XInput and DirectInput in my controller software (it's probably done automatically on that end).

Perhaps I should give the 10.7.4 beta a go:

 

 

FIXES:

• fix analogue nudge not working for joysticks/gamepads in XInput mode

   

 

 

it will fix nudging, but there is no function presently to look for an axis, and equate it to a digital function
only have button ID choices for flippers and other button type inputs.

Depending on what game pad you have, it is possible it cannot do d-input
i think that unfortunately real xbox 360 controllers cannot switch modes, may also be same deal with the xbox1 controllers?

 

Logitech F310(wired) and F710(wireless) are programmable and also mode switchable.
The programmable part would be useful for what you said you would want to do
you can program the trigger axis to do like from deadzone to 50% send button A
and from 51% to 100% send buttons A and B (or shift and control keys etc)
that would equate to a progressive leaf switch basically.

I am not sure if anyone else makes and sells and programmable xbox type gamepads anymore
most are just chinese clones that if you are lucky do xinput dinput and android

[X Vector]

My gamepad is a (real) Microsoft Xbox 360 controller for Windows; it's probably got an internal cable fracture so I've had to MacGyver a cable loop solution I've found on the internet, but it still works.

Unfortunately that 10.7.4 beta didn't work out too well (after a nudge, I found I could directly control the ball with the left thumbstick), so it's back to digital nudging for now.

It's a bit of a shame as a lot of tables tilt rather easily when using this method.

[wiesshund]

My gamepad is a (real) Microsoft Xbox 360 controller for Windows; it's probably got an internal cable fracture so I've had to MacGyver a cable loop solution I've found on the internet, but it still works.

Unfortunately that 10.7.4 beta didn't work out too well (after a nudge, I found I could directly control the ball with the left thumbstick), so it's back to digital nudging for now.

It's a bit of a shame as a lot of tables tilt rather easily when using this method.

that means your nudge is not adjusted
you have to adjust nudging using the nudge test table
wrong settings and yes, you can drive the ball around the table

and dont forget to have deadzone or you will always be nudging.

 

And sadly no, ms xbox 360 controllers support nothing but xinput

[rob046]

Is there a guide somewhere that can guide me on how to set up my controller for VP? Mainly I'd need help with how to enable analog nudging 

[Tesla]

1. Is there a guide somewhere that can guide me on how to set up my controller for VP?

2. Mainly I'd need help with how to enable analog nudging 

 

1. How about a forum thread. I've seen several around here.

 

I think what we have documented here is that many "controllers" work with VPX natively (as long as they appear in Windows as Game Controllers). If you desire functionality beyond that you can also run JoyToKey (or similar) software.

 

To be more specific, we would have to know what "controller" you have (or plan to use).

 

2. AFAIK, to enable variable analog-Nudge you need an Accelerometer ... preferably (or possibly only) in your cabinet. 

[wiesshund]

you can analog nudge with a gamepad
left thumbstick is what most people use

 

accelerometer simply equates to a joystick axis

You have to use the nudge test table to adjust the values though
or nudging will equate to driving balls around the table

Also nudging is just that, NUDGE
Dont grab the stick and sling it around
just flick it.

[rob046]

you can analog nudge with a gamepad
left thumbstick is what most people use

 

accelerometer simply equates to a joystick axis

You have to use the nudge test table to adjust the values though
or nudging will equate to driving balls around the table

Also nudging is just that, NUDGE
Dont grab the stick and sling it around
just flick it.

 

Currently the left stick will nudge. However it only seems to do forward nudge. Flicking it left/right still only gives me forward nudge. VP 10.7.4