61 replies to this topic

[woodsy15]

Hi Everyone, I am beginning a build of a 3 screen cab.  Spent countless nights :-) getting 190 tables all ready for B2S and DMD display.  I have left over Aura Bass Shaker Pro units from a home theatre couch I once had.  Thinking about using one or both in the cab for feedback.  For those not familiar they are a device that connects to the amplified sub woofer output of the sound system at 4 ohms and vibrate instead of creating sound waves.  So the idea is any flipper, bumper, popper noises that hopefully have some low frequency bass would cause the cab to shake.   Not sure if anyone has any experience with these shakers, or opinions on how well these would possibly work based on sound output ?  I know a bit about the use of proper shakers and LED wiz but info about those setups in comparison would be helpful too. (sorry, not too lazy to search for LED wiz threads, but just want to save hours of searching)  I do not want to spend $1000 + just on feedback if possible.  Thanks all for the help, this site is the best !

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[Sir Cheddar]

Lets just say what you are planning does make a difference for gameplay. It works pretty good for force feedback.

 

I'm doing something quite similar alongside to ledwiz feedback but had it running long before I installed the ledwiz.

 

But I'd suggest that you don't use that sucker with your primary sound system. Put a second sound system in your cabinet for mechanical sounds and boost that one with your bass shaker.

 

 

I'm using 2 decased Wavemaster MX3 in my build. The sub-woofer for the backbox sound system is set to sane levels, the one for the cabinet, well, isn't.

Edited by Sir Cheddar, 04 January 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[Pinball999]

Perfect timing. I've received two bass shaker yesterday and installed them this morning.

http://www.amazon.de...rds=bass shaker

 

At the moment, they are connected via a small amp plugged to a second sound exit. (no crossover)

I'm also using 8 contactors for FF.

 

First impression: It's great to feel each bounce from the balls on the playfield. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Problem is that I was not expecting the shakers to produce so much sound, and the quality is really poor for the hears. Is it the same for the Aura?

 

 

I'm now planning to surround them with sound isolating material, and see if it makes any difference.

[randr]

I would think this combo would be best simulation possible. True force feedback contactors, lights real stuff combined with the extra sound feedback I would think its as close to real life as it can be.


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[Pinball999]

Sir Cheddar, can you control the cab speakers volume separately from the shaker's intensity?

[Sir Cheddar]

Sir Cheddar, can you control the cab speakers volume separately from the shaker's intensity?

 

You can control the bass level at the volume knobs you see on the picture I posted above. For master volume the MX3 has a remote control on a long cable.

I've put those on the underside of my cab so I can control the volume of ROM and mechanical sounds separately.

 

 

 

Note: That Wavemaster thing I'm using is only a simple active 2.1 sound system and it doesn't qualify as bass shaker. It has only a rather smallish sub-woofer.

But still, that is more then enough bass to get the effect.

 

The speakers could be a bit better, for Pinball its more then enough but if I use my cab as jukebox I find them a bit lacking.

Edited by Sir Cheddar, 04 January 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[woodsy15]

Thanks for all the info. I did not know mechanical sounds could be separated. Will have to look into that. Some of the replies make me think there might be some confusion. These use the subwoofer feed but they are not subs or speakers. They are tactile transducers. They will not "sound" bad but instead shake the cab they are bolted to. I could definitely power them using their own amplifier and you would Y split the rca sub feed of the normal amp.
How do you separate Rom sounds from mechanical sounds ? Obviously need two sound cards I imagine...

[Sir Cheddar]

Separation of mechanical sounds works only for VPM-Tables at the moment. You can select a different sound card in VP's options so every sound VP generates goes to that device. vPinMame isn't influenced by that so it will send every ROM sound to the default device.

Non-VPM-tables can't separate mechanical sounds and will send all sound output to the cabinet speakers that way, which is ok for EMs but less than optimal for music template tables. I have put together an half-assed solution to switch the sound to the backbox speakers if somebody is interested.

 

FP doesn't support multiple sound devices. For Pinball FX2 I've requested it, but I don't see it coming.

Same for TPA.

 

Pro-Pinball looks better, Ade seems to like the idea. And Unit3D, I didn't get it to work on the pre-alpha, but it looks like there are already settings to select another sound card

 

 

How do you separate Rom sounds from mechanical sounds ? Obviously need two sound cards I imagine...

Yup. If you have one of your monitors connected with HDMI and said monitor has a speaker jack you can use this for a second sound card.

[Pinball999]

Thanks for all the info. I did not know mechanical sounds could be separated. Will have to look into that. Some of the replies make me think there might be some confusion. These use the subwoofer feed but they are not subs or speakers. They are tactile transducers. They will not "sound" bad but instead shake the cab they are bolted to. I could definitely power them using their own amplifier and you would Y split the rca sub feed of the normal amp.
How do you separate Rom sounds from mechanical sounds ? Obviously need two sound cards I imagine...

 

 

The confusion seem to come from the difference between the Aura and my shakers. They are not working like the Aura and are in fact passive speakers:

http://www.avforums....yo-amp.1775842/

 

I've followed feedback from Home Cinema users and got them connected to a cheap stereo amp. But it looks like I will need to find a sub amp to filter the frequencies.

Too bad the Aura are quite expensive in Europe, they seem to be way better!

Since you have them at hand, go for it, you won't regret it.

[woodsy15]

@Cheddar
Thanks for the info. I just finished setting up 189 VPM tables, no FP at all. So sounds like I should be good. And I still have to old stereo Kenwood receiver/amp that I used to power the shakers for home theatre. Should be able to cram it inside the cab !

[Pinball999]

Hi woodsy15,

I've finally managed to correctly install my bass pumps III in the cab and played a few tables.
At the moment, the mechanical sounds are splitted and sent a small amp connected to a good HC center speaker, and to a subwoofer amplifier connected to the bass Pumps III.
This allows to adjust the volume and the "shakes" separately.

If the effect is great on some tables (like T2 or Cirqus Votaire), you have to be prepared to spend a lot of time tweaking all the tables with sounds with too much low frequencies (TAF Gold,
or T3 i.e.).
For these last tables, the shakers are kicking too much and make the all cab rattling.


For the plus:
-Better immersion on tables with good mechanical sounds (you can really feel the ball bumping everywhere)
-Could replace the contactors if you don't want to use both (my preference goes to the contactors though)
-Works great in parallel with contactors as the feeling between the systems is different.

For the cons:
-A lot of tweaking in perspective to find the best sounds
-If used too strong, the shakers can cover the contactors and you can't perceive anymore which one of them is triggered.

What I'm planning to do is to make a selection of all the sounds working best in my tables, and import them to the problematic ones.

I will also use an audio software to adjust these sounds to my liking and get the best frequencies.
Alternative and quick options are:
Switching the sub amp off in case the bass are too strong
Use the feature in VP to deactivate some sounds (like bumpers or slingshots for instance). The contactors would be there to still hear and feel these sounds.

Another thing on the to do list is to learn how to add ball rolling sound to the tables where it's missing. Once you have tested it, you don't want to go back


It would be great if we could use this thread to share our experience on the shakers once yours have been installed.
I would also love to hear from other users, especially if someone can compare two types of shakers like in the link below.

[Pinball999]

Just spent some time testing different tables. Breakshot seems to be a good base to get shaker sounds.

[miracle]

Great idea ! 

I tried to use bass bumper for force feedback in my first cab. I don't think to use bass kicker, great idea !

 

Do you think it can replace contactors or it's better with both ?

I just order my siemens contactor, so it's a bit late

 

Another question i want to ask.

When you use contactor, do you disable the related table sound ? (it seem strange to me to get the sound of the contactor and the wave sound of the flipper...)

 

Thanks for feedback.

Ced

[miracle]

Hi,

Here a mini bass shaker that can be interesting for table sounds.

 

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_e_3

[arngrim]

Bass bumpers can't replace contactors, because contactors are rom controlled so the effect can be area located, the bass not

 

there's the CV, and WCS table that disable all the redundant sounds with an option, for the other tables and until we have a proper solution in place, i manually disables all these sounds from all my tables

 

flippers

slings

bumpers

targets

droptargets

targetreset

autoplunger

drain

ballrelease

ejectholes

knocker

motor

[kickthefog]

Arngrim,

Is there a quick, easy explanation how you disable these sounds manually? I mean an idiots guide... For people like me? Hehe.

My contractors are installed and ready, just don't have some other needed parts yet, but I will be looking to disable my table wav sounds very soon.

Thanks!

Pat


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[Sir Cheddar]

I fear I have to disagree with this one, Arngrim

 

Bass + contactors is better then contactors alone when you have an dedicated sound system for the mechanical sounds.

The contactors give the twump in the right location while the cab speakers give some variety for those sounds. It doesn't even matter that those sounds only come from one direction as long as those speakers are inside the cab, not inside the backbox.

 

So I pretty much like to leave those "redundant" sounds on. It gives even more bang for the buck and it sounds better.

 

If you have a single sound system for both rom and mechanical sounds it's a completely different matter.

[ringorian]

I fear I have to disagree with this one, Arngrim

Bass + contactors is better then contactors alone when you have an dedicated sound system for the mechanical sounds.
The contactors give the twump in the right location while the cab speakers give some variety for those sounds. It doesn't even matter that those sounds only come from one direction as long as those speakers are inside the cab, not inside the backbox.

So I pretty much like to leave those "redundant" sounds on. It gives even more bang for the buck and it sounds better.

If you have a single sound system for both rom and mechanical sounds it's a completely different matter.

i use contactors and a shaker together for parts like bumpers and slingshots and contactors alone for example targets. Since these are all rom controlled it is a feedback when it has to be, nice and short. I can delete all the mechanical sounds which are sometimes really annoying and have klick klack from the contactors and feedback from the shakers.
Only sound from the table is rolling sound and some which are not mechanical related.
Like it, have reduced my sound to 2 pairs of car speakers and 2 amps ..

[Sir Cheddar]

 

i use contactors and a shaker together for parts like bumpers and slingshots and contactors alone for example targets. Since these are all rom controlled it is a feedback when it has to be, nice and short. I can delete all the mechanical sounds which are sometimes really annoying and have klick klack from the contactors and feedback from the shakers.
Only sound from the table is rolling sound and some which are not mechanical related.
Like it, have reduced my sound to 2 pairs of car speakers and 2 amps ..

 

I see your point, I guess its all a matter of taste. I think me using a sub instead of shakers does make a difference too.

And I agree about some sounds being annoying on some tables, mainly older ones. On some of them the ball rolling sound really rubs me the wrong way.

But still, I stay with my previous statement. For me both sounds and contactors works best most of the time

Edited by Sir Cheddar, 14 January 2014 - 06:39 PM.

[arngrim]

I just said that bass or shaker can't replace contactors, but i agree they can be a super combination with a second sound system inside the cab.
So do uou think that adding just two speakers on middle left and right inside is enough?