34 replies to this topic

[miracle]

Hi,

I try the Vsync option, and it's worst... the display is less smoth... i don't know why.

Ced

[toxie]

It's broken in the official 9.1.4 release.. Sorry for that..

To test it for real, please use a nightly build by koadic..

[htamas]

I'm running the build in koadic's signature, but the occasional hiccup is stil present. And this may be just in my head, but with vsync active somehow the whole view of the table is less pleasant. Can't exactly point my finger to why, just a feeling.

 

But this isn't too surprising since I read on many forums that people don't like vsync for the same reason.

[toxie]

I mainly added it because of 3D stereo rendering, where the tearing can actually be very unpleasant, as one eye might get a different frame then the other -> nausea..

 

But now i also use it in 2D as for me it seems to be more smooth most of the time..

[miracle]

I don't have hardware rendering activated, maybee it's the reason why i don't have a smooth experience with sync activated ?

[Rawd]

I am running windows 7 with a 3 screen setup. Playfield is on a 560ti, an the backglass and DMD are running on a 280gtx. I seem to get some micro-stutter from some of the newer tables.

I set the adaptive vsync option on, and the stutter went away, and these tables run smoother than ever. However, now my pinmame rom sounds are skipping and stuttering really badly.

Does anyone know how this vsync option is possibly affecting my rom sounds? Any idea on a fix?

Thanks

Edited by Rawd, 09 October 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[toxie]

Did you try a new 9.1.6 build and set the vsync there to something like 120?

[Rawd]

Did you try a new 9.1.6 build and set the vsync there to something like 120?

Thanks for the quick reply Toxie..  Here is what I have tried...

 

VP915 - Adaptive vsync on - Rom sound stutter, problem tables play nice and smooth.

VP916-676 - Adaptive vsync @ "1" (auto), and "60" - Rom sound stutter, problem tables run smooth.

VP916-676 - Adaptive Vsync @ "120" - Rom sound stutter, and playfiled lights stutter now.  (tried a moment ago at your suggestion)

Any VP - Adaptive vsync off, or "0" - Most tables play great, some micro-stutter on a few newer tables.

 

I tried turning adaptive vsync to "0", and forcing Vsync with my Nvidia settings - Doesn't do anything.

 

I was thrilled to see that this option fixes my micro-stutter, but I am baffled as to how it affecting the rom sounds.

Edited by Rawd, 10 October 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[jimmyfingers]

@Toxie - I found the same sorta things like Rawd since the first VP version where this option was included.  I had aspired to be able set the frames manually and hopefully get syncing like at 60 but with, for example, a 120 seting chosen to benefit from both the sync as well as the faster VP / physics processing that seems to affect some things like flippers, trigger hits, and I suppose here with Rawd, the DMD / sound issues (as it's a factor of 2 and should seemingly sync still with it being perfectly drawing every other frame at the rate of a standard TV / monitor).  I've been meaning to get back to you via my findings since our PMs and after you included this option / suggestion as I had hoped (thank you by the way).  However, it doesn't seem to be really working unless still set manually to one's exact monitor refresh rate or at the auto (0) which matches it to the same anyway but at least fixes situations where people have a 75Hz or other display Hz setting. I had hoped and the main reason I was suggesting this option / code change, was that we could then set it to something like 240 manually, be still essentially synced with a 60Hz monitor  (for smooth / consistent play) at every 4th frame, but benefit from the higher FPS for reasons of the issues above. 

 

If you wish, I can take this off-line and resume some troubleshooting / discussion back in our original PM thread. 

[htamas]

For me, VP's adaptive Vsync still causes ball hiccups, even with the latest build. Not constant micro-stutter but the occasional slight stutter that is still annoying, so much so that I cannot use this feature. I'd like to have it on because it fixes my unique sound issue that - as it turns out - is caused by my crappy speakers (whine on some tables due to too high frame rates). The ball hiccups are a deal breaker though.

I'll probably have to replace my speakers which is fine except that this will require more serious surgery on my cab than I'd like, so I'm dragging my feet, LOL.

Edited by htamas, 10 October 2013 - 02:13 AM.

[toxie]

@jimmyfingers: right, my implementation isn't really the most intelligent when cranking up the frames in vsync..

i'll see what i can fix..

[toxie]

Hmmm, it's not really simple, as just 'skipping' vsyncs is even more jerky..

In theory one should decouple the physics, etc from rendering completely to have vsync but no stutter somewhere else, but this is currently not really possible, once again because of the evil region update logic..

So maybe this can be enhanced, too, as soon as we have the fully dynamic rendering with DX9 going at some point..

[sleepy]

How is the Adaptive VSync applied? Is it a Boolean / Switch value ( -1, 0, 1) or or a range value (say a value of 60 for 60 FPS)?

For some reason when I apply a -1 value to the VSync textbox and play a table, then exit back to the editor and check the value in the box, I instead find a value in the thousands has replaced the -1, and if I apply a range value of 60 (FPS) and start a table and press the F11 key to display VP frame rates, I am still seeing FPS above 60 FPS, usually when the animation is still. 

[toxie]

0 is off, 1 is automatic (usually thats 60 then, depending on your monitor/TV), everything above is Hz (negative numbers are parsed as unsigneds, thus the high number afterwards)

 

If you have 60 in there, then it's normal that rarely you might see a FPS number higher than 60, but at least the average FPS should be 60..

[jimmyfingers]

Hmmm, it's not really simple, as just 'skipping' vsyncs is even more jerky..

In theory one should decouple the physics, etc from rendering completely to have vsync but no stutter somewhere else, but this is currently not really possible, once again because of the evil region update logic..

So maybe this can be enhanced, too, as soon as we have the fully dynamic rendering with DX9 going at some point..

Thanks for looking further into this again and I imagine that ultimately decoupling the physics and graphics cycles / frames is a good stragtegy going forward.  One more thing to look forward to once a DX9 version / port can be made