25 replies to this topic

[Dazz]

Perhaps a table that has all of the standard and various parts that a table builder could use. Such as something with all of the different types of posts, rubbers, etc? Something that we can simply cut and paste into tables we are working on?

I'm finding that creating some of these different types of posts are a bit tedious... Any cheats or shortcuts when building a table would be greatly appreciated.

[Noah Fentz]

That concept has been discussed, and I think it's a great idea!

I have too much going on to do it, but my idea was to create a resource table for each major company and use a 'playfield' image to list what the objects are.

Good line of thinking.

If you ask around, I'm sure you can get permission to use other authors' parts in most cases.

[Dazz]

That concept has been discussed, and I think it's a great idea!

I have too much going on to do it, but my idea was to create a resource table for each major company and use a 'playfield' image to list what the objects are.

Good line of thinking.

If you ask around, I'm sure you can get permission to use other authors' parts in most cases.

So, do companies tend to stick with the same types of parts for different tables? I don't know who uses what well enough to do what your idea is, but something like that would be greatly appreciated.

[Noah Fentz]

Yeah, most do. Manuals can give you a great idea of the parts used, part numbers, etc. It makes recreations more authentic, IMO.

[Shockman]

Something that we can simply cut and paste into tables we are working on?

Absolutely not.

There would be a slew of resource tables if the cut and paste process did not rename each piece.
Until that issue is addressed they would be almost worthless. Might as well just grab them from any table that has them.

[Noah Fentz]

The object names of various posts aren't important, and that's what I'm talking about. There aren't many objects that actually need names on a table, really, so I believe this could be a valuable concept to pursue.

[destruk]

Shiva had a few of these, and I even have a few. I'm sure more authors have their own that they grab models from in a pinch.

[Shockman]

Yeah. I guess.
Anything Animated, or changing in any way like lighting, reflection, shadow, or simply dropping would need a rename.

A resource table would be good for posts, and rubbers, ball images, and textures, etc. now that you can export textures.
Sounds, generic scripts, and a lot of things now that you can export.

mmpac does not have a post, a rubber, or even a wall that is not named in the script though, but if they were not going to absorb or reflect light it would not be a problem.

To copy one of the custom built pop bumpers and paste it into another table, or even the same table and get it to work would be more work than building one from scratch, I guarantee, because they have to be renamed and scripted, or scripted to match the name, which you would have to check, and then put back in the same order, and there are two of every wall that makes them up.

So yes. It can be done. Anything can be done. But there is a reason why it's not been done.

[Dazz]

A resource table would be good for posts, and rubbers, ball images, and textures, etc. now that you can export textures.
Sounds, generic scripts, and a lot of things now that you can export

This is all I'm really looking for... generic bumpers, rubbers, posts and stuff like that.

I've created a couple posts on a different table that I am simply copy/pasting into my WIP table. So far I haven't had any problems, but then again what I'm doing is just basic and I am not scripting anything... yet.

[destruk]

Well, there is one way to get around your rename issue Shockman. If you have your lights all default named, and placed in order, then you can copy them to a table with no default light names and they will retain their original default names and sequence and positioning. Same with walls. ie if you rename all the walls on your table, then the next pasted wall will be Wall1. I do that a whole lot for the segmented light displays I use.

[Steve Paradis]

So, do companies tend to stick with the same types of parts for different tables? I don't know who uses what well enough to do what your idea is, but something like that would be greatly appreciated.

This is why we use library in FP. I think it s a good way to standardize production.

[Dazz]

So, do companies tend to stick with the same types of parts for different tables? I don't know who uses what well enough to do what your idea is, but something like that would be greatly appreciated.

This is why we use library in FP. I think it s a good way to standardize production.

I absolutely love the graphics engine and editor for FP, but that's about it. The lack of rom support and the horrid physics engine really kills it. I do love what you have been able to do with the FP engine. Your tables are nothing but amazing and are the only FP tables that I have on my pin. Every FP table seems like the table is at a 2 degree angle and the ball seems to float too much.

I know that you don't get it enough, but "THANK YOU VERY MUCH" for all of your work and excellent FP tables!

Edited by Dazz, 22 April 2010 - 10:20 AM.

[Shockman]

Well, there is one way to get around your rename issue Shockman. If you have your lights all default named, and placed in order, then you can copy them to a table with no default light names and they will retain their original default names and sequence and positioning. Same with walls. ie if you rename all the walls on your table, then the next pasted wall will be Wall1. I do that a whole lot for the segmented light displays I use.

I probably sound bitter, and argumentative, but that's not the way I feel. I love VP. And I have always felt it was more capable than most ever seemed to.
I don't mind the trouble or even hassle of doing anything with it as long as it's going to work in the end. I did not hesitate to use your technique for digits made from lights on my mmpac update. Well more than your technique, I used your digits. I knew when I copied them that when I pasted them that the work had just begun. I did not mind renaming all 250 or whatever lights because I knew it would be worth it in the end. It's a great technique for numeric displays, that is faster than text displays, and less problematic than using drop walls. Both of which I was using before.
It would be wonderful if VP could maintain the names though. I think it would be easier too, and I'm not talking about the end user, but the VP programmers. It is programmed to fill in gaps. For example if you have ten walls and they are named in default terms and delete or rename wall5 and wall6 because they have action like scripted to drop, then copy and paste for another pop or box or whatever, they will be named
wall5,wall6,wall11,wall12,wall13,wall14,wall15,wall16,wall17,wall18
That's by design. VP runs an algorithm to fill in the gaps. It eliminates the problems that would arise from multiple objects with the same name. So effort went into providing this function. As effort went into the function of auto naming of the elements in the first place.

So I'm not beating the drum for adding much of anything to VP in this context, nor taking anything out. If I had a firm handle on C++ and the VP program, I would make a build that did not auto name elements unless it was flagged to do so. Both for creation and for copy/paste.

Another technique that could be used is appending element names automatically if they match the database. Windows does it, graphics programs does it, and other types as well. If you have a wall named Wall1 and you pasted two more of it you would have Wall1, Wall1(1) and Wall1(2) then only when no effort when into the naming at creation would you have unuseable elements, but you would still know what you had and fixing it would be simpler. It makes more sense when you imagine names like PopRing, PopRing(1), PopRing(2), etc.

To me, a good resource table would provide the scripting snips as well as the group of elements.

I admit that even with these drawbacks that a resource table would have it's uses, but I still think that working with even your own resources could be made much simpler.

I'd probably download a resource table today if there was one with all types of posts, and all colors of rubbers, because I do need to replace mine with something that renders better in VP9.

A table with scores of ball images and spots and scratches etc. would be popular as well.

A table with a number of plungers at different angles and textures would be worth the renaming effort as well.

A table with a slew of generic sounds would surly be a hit.

A table with all of that would be very handy indeed.

[Noah Fentz]

I'm with you on a lot of points, and I especially like the appended object names, instead of renaming them altogether.

As far as images and sounds, I've been working on compiling a library of both, and will continue adding to it. If you'd like, I can focus on ball images and generic sounds next, once I get back from the dentist today. (Just fillings this time).

I've already asked JP if I could use some of his objects in an object resource table some months ago, and he said it was cool, so perhaps I can start on that, too.

Perhaps this would be a good time for other authors to provide the necessary permission as well? Guys like Eala, destruk, TAB, GRONI, Scapino, etc ... Can I use some of your objects in such a project to compile a complete object resource table? Please?

[Shockman]

I don't have much to add. My table is so old now.
I do like this ball though. It actually looks like it is rolling, and for example on the rails above the flipper it always seems to roll in the right direction as well. It has just a little sparkle around the light reflection on top and the scratches are very subtle. I use it in just about all tables.

Attached Files

•  HBall.zip   13.42KB   21 downloads

[Noah Fentz]

Would you like me to add that to the ball image library, Shockie?

I have a good number of user-submitted ball images (all in good taste, I assure you ), so I'd love to add this one, too.

[Shockman]

Sorry Noah.

Yes.

Like I said. I don't have much, but it's all free in every sense of the word.

[destruk]

I'd still like to get the naming issue improved in a future VP sometime - just priorities takes me away from stuff like that lately.

[faralos]

ok ok ya' forced me hand! here is MY resource table which I use to speed things up a bit when I need either a post, colored rubber (of course they are ez to make once you know how!) a post, etc... a pic of it AND a zip of the table for you guys who asked my table skeleton posted here has the custom plunger in it this one is just assorted stuff...

Attached Files

•  Demo_stuff_table.zip   91.64KB   17 downloads
•  resource_table.jpg   52.38KB   68 downloads

Edited by faralos, 23 April 2010 - 02:36 AM.

[MajikBubble]

Proper inlane/outlane dividers, pop-up ball saver, etc.