8 replies to this topic

[griffindodd]

I'm trying to squash a few bugs with my system regarding black screen video crashes. 

 

Machine specs in my sig.

 

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason/pattern to the black screen crashes that I am seeing which last about 4-5 seconds before recovering (long enough to drain your ball of course).

 

I use VPX 10.8 x64 GL for most of my tables unless a table has any noticeable issues then I'll assign Popper a custom exe for that table. Plenty of my tables run quite heavy Pup packs, some without any hint of issue, others, even without pups will 'sometimes' crash when the table is rendered in VPX, (I haven't managed to isolate a specific table that will always crash). Crashes are always temporary and recover.

 

The first hint of a crash is mangled/pixelated video playback or stalling on either a Pinup Popper loading video or a DMD or Topper screen. It seems like the CPU is choking or memory is having issues. I've noticed that initially, it will not happen for a while during a session of updating tables, config etc (lots of swapping between tables and menus) but then when it does start to happen can effect many tables in a row.

 

Also I sometimes see it happen when trying to adjust views/camera angles on a table. When I bring up the F12 menu, sometimes the display will crash 3,4 or 5 times in a row before it will settle enough for me to work on the settings.

 

Video driver updates don't seem to have any effect on this behavior.

 

I work in IT and have been building rigs for 20+ years so I'm pretty seasoned in this for the most part. My suspicions are CPU overload, perhaps heat creep but I feel pretty confident that my rig is well cooled and ventilated. 

 

Wondering if anyone else has come across this kind of behavior and managed to work it out?

Edited by griffindodd, 21 April 2025 - 06:56 PM.

[griffindodd]

I gave this post to Grok and received some interesting things I can try, pasting here for reference.

 

Key Points

• It seems likely that black screen crashes in VPX 10.8 x64 GL are related to rendering or resource issues, possibly linked to BAM Headtracking or memory leaks.
• Research suggests adjusting settings like disabling BAM Headtracking and setting Display Mode to Windowed may help stabilize performance.
• The evidence leans toward monitoring system memory during extended sessions to identify potential leaks contributing to crashes.
• There’s some controversy around table-specific compatibility, so testing with different VPX versions might be necessary.

Direct Answer

Introduction

You’re dealing with frustrating black screen crashes in VPX 10.8 x64 GL, lasting 4-5 seconds and affecting your pinball simulation experience. These crashes seem random, with no clear pattern, and can occur during gameplay, view adjustments, or after prolonged sessions. Given your IT background and experience building rigs, you’ve already ruled out heat issues and found video driver updates unhelpful. Let’s break this down into actionable steps to troubleshoot and potentially resolve the issue.

Suggested Steps to Address Crashes

• Check BAM Headtracking: Open VPX, go to Video/Graphics Options, and uncheck "BAM Headtracking" if enabled. This has resolved similar issues for some users, as seen in discussions on VPUniverse Forums.
• Adjust Display Mode: Ensure the Display Mode is set to Windowed in Display Settings, as this is recommended for the GL version to avoid performance issues, according to Pinball POV.
• Optimize Synchronization: Set Synchronization Mode to Frame Pacing in Video/Graphics Options to ensure smooth frame delivery and reduce crash likelihood.
• Nvidia Settings (If Applicable): If using an NVIDIA GPU, in the Nvidia Control Panel, set Vertical Sync to OFF and Low Latency Mode to ULTRA to improve performance.
• Monitor Memory Usage: Use Task Manager to track RAM usage during extended VPX sessions. If memory steadily increases, it might indicate a leak, which could correlate with crashes, especially given reports of memory issues in earlier VPX versions on VPForums.

Additional Considerations

• Some tables may be more resource-intensive, so identify which ones crash consistently and test them in VPX 10.7.4 if possible to see if the issue is version-specific.
• Since you use Popper with custom EXEs, ensure these are compatible with VPX 10.8 GL to avoid rendering inconsistencies.
• If crashes persist, consider reporting the issue on the VPX GitHub page (vpinball/vpinball) with detailed logs and specs for further community or developer support.

These steps should help stabilize your setup, but given the complexity, monitoring and testing will be key to pinpointing the exact cause.

Survey Note: Detailed Analysis of Black Screen Crashes in VPX 10.8 x64 GL

This section provides a comprehensive analysis of the black screen crash issue in VPX 10.8 x64 GL, based on the user’s description and extensive research into community forums, GitHub issues, and performance guides. The goal is to offer a thorough understanding of potential causes and actionable solutions, ensuring all relevant details are covered for a seasoned IT professional with 20+ years of experience building rigs.

Background and User Context

The user reports intermittent black screen crashes in VPX 10.8 x64 GL, lasting 4-5 seconds and recovering, which is long enough to disrupt gameplay (e.g., draining the ball). These crashes lack a clear pattern but are triggered during various activities, including:

• Playing tables, especially those with heavy Pup packs or even without, with no consistent table-specific trigger.
• Adjusting views/camera angles via the F12 menu, sometimes causing multiple crashes in succession.
• After prolonged sessions of updating tables and configurations, suggesting a resource buildup over time.

The user notes that the first sign of a crash is mangled/pixelated video playback or stalling on Pinup Popper loading videos, DMD, or Topper screens, hinting at CPU overload or memory issues. They’ve ruled out heat and ventilation problems, given their confidence in their rig’s cooling, and found video driver updates ineffective. They primarily use VPX 10.8 x64 GL, switching to custom EXEs via Popper for tables with noticeable issues, which adds complexity to the setup.

Potential Causes Identified

Based on research, several factors could contribute to the observed black screen crashes:

1. BAM Headtracking and Rendering Issues:
   • Community discussions, such as on VPUniverse Forums, indicate that enabling "BAM Headtracking" in VPX 10.8 GL can cause black screen issues. One user resolved a similar problem by unchecking this setting, though it affected compatibility with VPX 10.6 tables.
   • Given the user’s description of rendering-related symptoms (mangled video, pixelation), it’s plausible that BAM-related features, if enabled, are interfering with the OpenGL pipeline.
2. Display Mode and GL Version Specifics:
   • The GL version of VPX 10.8, which uses OpenGL, has specific recommendations for performance, as outlined in Pinball POV. Setting Display Mode to Windowed is advised to avoid performance drops, such as slideshow effects, which could manifest as temporary black screens.
   • GitHub issue #1145 (vpinball/vpinball) reports a similar 4-second black screen on playfield during loading and exiting in VPX 10.8 GL, suggesting a rendering pipeline issue specific to this version.
3. Synchronization and Frame Delivery:
   • Performance guides recommend setting Synchronization Mode to Frame Pacing to ensure smooth frame delivery, which can prevent crashes during resource-intensive tasks like view adjustments or table switching. This is particularly relevant given the user’s experience with the F12 menu causing multiple crashes.
4. Memory Leaks and Resource Management:
   • While specific memory leak reports for VPX 10.8 are scarce, VPForums documents a memory leak in VPX 10.7, where memory usage increased over time (e.g., from 700MB to 1.6GB in 2 hours), leading to lag. Given the user’s observation of crashes after prolonged sessions, a similar issue in VPX 10.8 could be at play.
   • The user’s mention of crashes starting after extended configuration sessions suggests resource buildup, possibly exacerbated by swapping between tables and menus, which could strain memory or CPU.
5. Table-Specific Compatibility:
   • Community reports, such as on VPForums, highlight crashes with newer 64-bit tables in VPX 10.8, while older tables work fine. This aligns with the user’s experience of some tables crashing even without Pup packs, suggesting table-specific resource demands or compatibility issues.
   • The use of Popper with custom EXEs adds another layer, as different renderers or settings might introduce inconsistencies, especially if not optimized for VPX 10.8 GL.
6. GPU and System Load:
   • The user suspects CPU overload, and while they’re confident in cooling, extended sessions could still lead to thermal throttling or GPU strain, especially during rendering-intensive tasks. Performance guides suggest optimizing Nvidia settings (e.g., Vertical Sync OFF, Low Latency Mode ULTRA) to mitigate this, as seen in Pinball POV.

Detailed Solutions and Recommendations

To address the black screen crashes, the following steps are recommended, ordered by ease of implementation and potential impact:

1. Adjust VPX Settings

• BAM Headtracking: In VPX 10.8 x64 GL, navigate to Video/Graphics Options and uncheck "BAM Headtracking" if enabled. This resolved similar issues for users on VPUniverse Forums, though it may affect older table compatibility.
• Display Mode: Ensure Display Mode is set to Windowed in Display Settings, as recommended for GL version to avoid performance issues, per Pinball POV.
• Synchronization Mode: Set Synchronization Mode to Frame Pacing to ensure smooth frame delivery, reducing crash likelihood during resource-intensive tasks.
• Maximum Framerate: Set Maximum Framerate to match your playfield monitor’s refresh rate (e.g., 60Hz for a 60Hz monitor) to reduce GPU strain.

2. Optimize GPU Settings (If Using NVIDIA)

• Open the Nvidia Control Panel, go to Global Settings, and:
  • Set Vertical Sync to OFF to reduce latency.
  • Set Low Latency Mode to ULTRA for improved performance.
• These settings, as per Pinball POV, can help mitigate GPU-related crashes, especially during rendering-intensive tasks.

3. Monitor System Resources

• Use Task Manager or Resource Monitor to track CPU, GPU, and RAM usage during VPX sessions, particularly after extended use. Look for:
  • Steady increases in memory usage, which could indicate a leak, as seen in VPX 10.7 reports on VPForums.
  • CPU or GPU spikes during crashes, which might suggest overload.
• If memory usage correlates with crash onset, consider restarting VPX periodically to reset resources.

4. Investigate Table-Specific Issues

• Identify tables that consistently crash and check their settings or configurations. Test these in VPX 10.7.4 if installed, as some users report better stability with older versions, per VPForums.
• Ensure any custom EXEs assigned via Popper are compatible with VPX 10.8 GL, as inconsistencies in rendering or settings could contribute to crashes.

5. Update and Report

• Ensure VPX is updated to the latest stable version (e.g., 10.8.0 or later), as performance improvements might address the issue.
• If crashes persist, report the problem on the VPX GitHub issues page (vpinball/vpinball) or VPForums, providing:
  • Detailed system specs (e.g., CPU, GPU, RAM, OS).
  • Crash logs, if available.
  • Description of the issue, including when crashes occur.

Comparative Analysis of Settings

To organize the recommended settings, here’s a table summarizing key adjustments:

Setting Location

Setting Name

Recommended Value

Notes

VPX 10.8 - Video/Graphics Options

BAM Headtracking

Unchecked

May resolve black screen issues, per

VPUniverse Forums

.

VPX 10.8 - Display Settings (GL)

Display Mode

Windowed

Recommended for GL version to avoid performance drops, per

Pinball POV

.

VPX 10.8 - Video/Graphics Options

Synchronization Mode

Frame Pacing

Ensures smooth frame delivery, reducing crash likelihood.

VPX 10.8 - Video/Graphics Options

Maximum Framerate

Match monitor refresh rate

Reduces GPU strain, enhancing stability.

Nvidia Control Panel - Global Settings

Vertical Sync

OFF

Reduces latency, per

Pinball POV

.

Nvidia Control Panel - Global Settings

Low Latency Mode

ULTRA

Improves performance, per

Pinball POV

.

Conclusion and Future Considerations

The black screen crashes in VPX 10.8 x64 GL likely stem from a combination of rendering pipeline issues (e.g., BAM Headtracking, GL-specific settings) and potential resource management problems (e.g., memory leaks, CPU/GPU overload). By adjusting the settings outlined above and monitoring system resources, you should be able to stabilize your setup. Given your experience, these steps should be straightforward to implement, but if issues persist, engaging with the VPX community on GitHub or forums will provide additional insights, especially as new updates or fixes are released.

This analysis covers all relevant details from community reports, performance guides, and GitHub issues, ensuring a comprehensive approach to resolving your problem.

Key Citations

• Playfield not rendering black screen in VPX10.8 beta 4 and 5 all tables
• Black screen with vpx 10.8 Visual Pinball Support Virtual Pinball Universe
• VPX Repair Visual Pinball Bug Report Pinball Nirvana
• Getting a black screen with nearly all VPX tables r/virtualpinball
• VPX GL 10.8.0 BAM PinballX Blank Screen Visual Pinball VPForums.org
• VPX 10.8 GL Version r/virtualpinball
• Black screen when loading and quiting a table on VPX 10.8 GL rev1773 and other rev Issue 1145 vpinball/vpinball
• About at the end of my rope backglass images not displaying in VPX r/virtualpinball
• Getting the Best Performance out of Visual Pinball VPX Version 10.8 Pinball POV
• RESOLVED Problem exiting tables General Spesoft Forums
• 10.8 RC1 Crashing frequently on table load to editor with Fish Tales Issue 1415 vpinball/vpinball
• VPX 10.8.x Crashes loading any table Installation Support Forum VPForums.org
• VPX 10.8 64 bit crashing on newest 64 bit tables VP Help Center VPForums.org
• VPX table crashes when loading scripts Visual Pinball VPForums.org
• RESOLVED PinballX Loading some VPX Issue Please Help General Spesoft Forums
• Table crashes after script edits VPX 10.8 Pinball info
• emulator_vpx PinUP Virtual Pinball System
• Memory Leak in 10.7 Visual Pinball VPForums.org
• Releases vpinball/vpinball
• VPX 10.8 Update Vpin Hub

[griffindodd]

Following up on this just to document progress.

 

Graphics Prefs for 10.8 x64 GL

 

- Windowed Mode (4k resolution)

- Frame Pacing

- Max frames match Monitor (100)

 

NVidia Control Panel

- V-sync off

- Low latency Mode - Ultra

 

Working for about 90 mins on tweaking POVs, moving between tables and menus frequently. Saw some display crashing and recovery on a few tables during the menu and adjustments process but nothing crashing during play so these tweaks seem to have helped a little, unless it's an environmental (heat) issue and the room happened to be cooler last night. 

 

Anecdotal

- Crashes seem to be related to heavy load so if a table is particularly heavy and/or a beefy pup pack then crashes seem more likely.

- Also saw a few crashes on older tables during POV adjustments which could be more of a compatibility issue with 10.8 - unsure.

Edited by griffindodd, 22 April 2025 - 03:59 PM.

[griffindodd]

Small update for the record.

 

Last night I sat down to continue working through my table collection as I update, adjust POVs etc. The computer was off and cold. The first table I started to edit had a display crash as soon as I went into the F12 menu so I feel pretty confident that this isn't a thermal load issue with my rig. 

 

Testing continues.

[griffindodd]

to follow up on this.

My issue was actually an overheating DisplayPort to HDMI cable. Running at 4k 100fps was torching the inline converter.

Managed to switch to a 8k rated hdmi cable, no conversion and its running even faster now at 120hz 4k and its rock solid.

you live and learn.

[Emanoel299]

to follow up on this.

My issue was actually an overheating DisplayPort to HDMI cable. Running at 4k 100fps was torching the inline converter.

Managed to switch to a 8k rated hdmi cable, no conversion and its running even faster now at 120hz 4k and its rock solid.

you live and learn.

Yeah

 

I had a similar issue.

Windows works fine all time long.

When start any table a few minutes later the playfield crash to a black screen.

When press scape return to windows fine again.

I had a problem about to loose FPS in other machine but was the cooler that was not enough for CPU.

For this machine was the DVI/HDMI cable converter.

I changed the converter and now works fine.

[rickh]

to follow up on this.

My issue was actually an overheating DisplayPort to HDMI cable. Running at 4k 100fps was torching the inline converter.

Managed to switch to a 8k rated hdmi cable, no conversion and its running even faster now at 120hz 4k and its rock solid.

you live and learn.

I never thought that these DP to HDMI adapters used active electronics inside.  So what type of adapter did you replace? Was it rated for 4K@100FPS? 

 

 

Rick

[griffindodd]

It was an 8k rated cable I cant remember the brand. I got the clue from guys over on the PS5 forums who were having similar issues and tracked it down to overheating cables especially ones that convert from one signal type to another. I guess for these very high frame rates at 4k its best to avoid conversion of any kind.

[rye74]

I honestly think this is a nvidia driver issue. I get a black screen crash when using vpinball_gl64 as well. I think it has something to do with G-Sync, but thats just a hunch. im using a straight DP cable.