5 replies to this topic

[PLCJim]

I own a couple of real tables, Addams Family and Harlem Globetrotter On Tour, and my wife and I were discussing buying one or two more machines when I found out about virtual cabs.  My inclination would be to build and to go big right out of the gate.  My thought is to build an ultrawide cab with a 48" OLED screen and so forth.

 

I chose the 48" C4 OLED because of a YouTube video talking about what the correct size was for a table monitor and 48 or 49 is the right playfield depth. It seems like most tutorials and such are centered around 42 inch monitors though. Are 48" machines considered optimum or do most people stick with 42" even if cost is not the driving issue? Realistically, by the time that you are talking OLED, there isn't that much cost difference between the two anyway.

 

I finally got to play an Ultra VP 7.5 today (which seems like it is in the league of what I would build except no OLED) and several things became apparent. Most standard size tables are stretched out to fit the full width of the table.  The whole intent of a 48" table was to get the right dimensions and aspect ratio.  Was this just something that Ultra VP did or can the correct aspect ratio be picked for most tables in the settings?

 

Also, there were times that the ball just moved too fast to even see what hole it went into.  I suspect this is a factor of frame rate, and the distance that the "ball" has to travel between refreshes, but the Ultra VP is no slouch and I am wondering if this is exaggerated by the size of the table and if a 42" does or does not have the same issue. Or do most people just accept that following the ball travel is not possible even on a high end monitor?

 

I think the owner had the playfield volume settings too low because I could never hear the ball rolling on the table.  I could hear the solenoids and contactors but that was pretty much it.  I can see why people recommend real flipper actuators and slingshots, too.  Am I thinking about this right or do you not normally hear the ambient sounds like the ball rolling? I have seen it hyped alot.

 

Finally, several games that we requested to see don't seem to be available.  The Stern Jurassic Park, Mandalorian, and some others were not there.  I recall hearing that the manufacturers have moved away from ROMs and that new games require actual coding techniques instead of relying on the ROM programming.  Is that why they are not available?  What is the cutoff for the easier to emulate table as opposed to new tables?

 

Thanks in Advance,

 

Jim

[robertms]

I chose the 48" C4 OLED because of a YouTube video talking about what the correct size was for a table monitor and 48 or 49 is the right playfield depth. It seems like most tutorials and such are centered around 42 inch monitors though. Are 48" machines considered optimum or do most people stick with 42" even if cost is not the driving issue? Realistically, by the time that you are talking OLED, there isn't that much cost difference between the two anyway.

 

I finally got to play an Ultra VP 7.5 today (which seems like it is in the league of what I would build except no OLED) and several things became apparent. Most standard size tables are stretched out to fit the full width of the table.  The whole intent of a 48" table was to get the right dimensions and aspect ratio.  Was this just something that Ultra VP did or can the correct aspect ratio be picked for most tables in the settings?

 

Hi Jim,

 

Welcome to the hobby! I recently upgraded my virtual pinball cab to a 48" OLED, which I managed to squeeze into a regulation size WIlliams WPC-95 widebody cabinet. My build thread answers some of your questions and includes pictures with tables presented at 1:1 POV ratio: https://www.vpforums...=32236&p=542441

 

Robert

[Fusionwerks]

Almost all of your questions can be user adjusted. Most table builders try to build the table to the correct dimensions. It is usually the end user that ends up skewing the table out of correct proportions because they want to fill their screen rather than have empty space. I personally think a 48 seems too wide.
The ball rolling volumes and such are also user adjusted to some extent. Some table authors make it easy to change volumes by adjusting a percentage in the tables script. Others you can just increase volume in the sound manager within VPX. It might sound confusing from the outside looking in, but it's not that hard once you start poking around within VPX editor. It can become a rabbit hole too.
About the newer tables... there is some time period that we have to respect between a real machines release and a virtual recreation. I don't remember the exact details of the "agreement" but it is a few years at least. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, have a look at my build in my signature if you like. I went all out with the exception of surround sound (which I do plan to do someday) I have had 0 regrets about building a full size cabinet machine.
Oh and my wife and I did the same as you. We couldn't decide on what games we wanted to buy either when we discovered virtual pinball, and it led us to have the ability to try out almost any game and see if we liked it. It also helps tremendously if you play leagues or tournaments because you can learn rules and what scores points at home without having to coin drop on location. Just don't expect the physics to be exact. Hope this helps

Edited by Fusionwerks, 02 February 2025 - 06:09 AM.

[PLCJim]

RobertMS,

 

Yes, that is a great solution and aligns well with what I had in mind.  I like the way your routed the cabinet out to hold the wider screen.

Did that model of LG need to be decased or was it a narrow bezel unit that just fit in?

Did you have any trickery to get the glass channel and side rails to attach to the narrowed edge?

In retrospect, would you have made you solenoid cross bars longer so that they fully contacted both sides or is this the way you wanted it and the dowels transfer the impacts sufficiently?

Why did you choose a 4070 over a 3070? I haven't messed with GPUs in a decade and not really sure how to assess the various manufactured versions of essentially the same chipset. (really two separate questions)

Do you feel like you can follow the flight of the ball with your rig?

 

Again, nice build and really close fit with my goals.

Fusionwerks, 

 

Thanks for your input.  Nice build.  I am particularly struck by the exterior.  How did you apply the paint?  It looks super smooth in the photos but you mentioned going back a brushing the back.  I don't have the equipment for LVHP painting which all the YT videos seem to want to use, so if you didn't spray it with an expensive rig I am interested in how you did it.  The gears are supremely subtle, too.

[Fusionwerks]

I applied the paint with a HVLP sprayer. I got it at harbor frieght for cheap, but I already had a compressor. You could spray it with a cheap Amazon electric sprayer if you practiced and got it just right first. I had to go back to paint the back by hand only because I forgot to paint that part when I sprayed. The paint I used had a very subtle glitter in it, so it sparkles a little in some lighting. The gears are just a vinyl wall decal that I bought and cut in half.

[robertms]

Did that model of LG need to be decased or was it a narrow bezel unit that just fit in?

Did you have any trickery to get the glass channel and side rails to attach to the narrowed edge?

In retrospect, would you have made you solenoid cross bars longer so that they fully contacted both sides or is this the way you wanted it and the dowels transfer the impacts sufficiently?

Why did you choose a 4070 over a 3070? I haven't messed with GPUs in a decade and not really sure how to assess the various manufactured versions of essentially the same chipset. (really two separate questions)

Do you feel like you can follow the flight of the ball with your rig?

 

I decased the TV to remove/relocate the protruding IR sensor on the bottom edge, but that's done just by removing the plastic back cover. The bezel around the screen is so thin I didn't have to touch it to make it fit.

For now I have the plastic glass channels double-side taped to the metal rails, but eventually I'm planning to J-B weld them permanently. It helps having a bit of the full-width plywood left at the top and bottom for additional support.

The cross braces provide additional structural support and are mounted solidly to the cabinet sides, sufficiently transmitting feedback from the contactors.

I went with a 4070 because it was the current generation card. This is the fourth GPU I've had in this cabinet and can assure you can never have enough GPU horsepower. Whatever is sufficient today will feel underpowered in a couple years.

There is no one-size-fits all answer to GPU selection. It all depends on your screen selections. In my case I'm running all high resolution screens: 4K120hz playfield, 2K60Hz backglass and 4K60hz DMD, and all the extra pixels need a lot of GPU power. In my case I was retrofitting newer screens into an existing cabinet so my choices were limited, but when building new I would limit the resolution of backglass and DMD monitors to 1080p. In my case I wish I had actually gone with a 4070ti, alas it was not in the budget.

With the OLED low latency and high refresh rate I don't have any trouble following the ball in play. I play a lot of real pinball and this is as close to real as it gets.