39 replies to this topic

[Curious Aardvark]

Just doing final designs and cutting lists on my build.
.it will be different to everything I've seen so far, as I intend the entire playfield to be hinged for easy access to the interior.

I envisage constant upgrading and fiddling and just thought this would be the easiest way to do it.
All the cabinet builds I've seen so far look like right bastards to get into and I dont want that
Physical Verisimilitude to a real pinball machines is unimportant to me, just so long as it plays like one.

So is there a cheap accelerometer I can get fir a few bucks from AliExpress that can be used as a physical nudge unit ?

I'm not bothered about a gazillion solenoids or shaker units or playfield LEDs, or toppers.
No frills is my aim.

It'll have decent speakers with internal sub woofer and flipper solenoids.

Just wondered if there was a cheap and cheerful way to add physical nudging that didn't involve a whole raft if other dof type stuff I'm not really interested in.

Edited by Curious Aardvark, 07 March 2022 - 03:56 PM.

[htamas]

One very cheap way is getting a Microsoft SideWinder Freestyle Pro along with the game port to USB adapter, mount it de-cased (just a simple circuit board) and use its built-in accelerometer. Usually easy to find on eBay, for example.

I had this setup for years before switching to the Oak Micros Pinscape Lite, and it worked very well for nudging.

Edited by htamas, 08 March 2022 - 12:50 AM.

[Thalamus]

Get the accelerator you want, but, don't forget the regular tilt bob !

[Curious Aardvark]

Who's 'bob'
And how much has he drunk ?

Not bothered about 'tilt' something I always disliked about pinball tables.
I mostly never nudge, but the number of uneven and badly setup tables ive had tilt on me over the decades, is shocking.

So a nudge without tilt would suit me perfectly :-)

[htamas]

Nudge without tilt is unfair playing 

With the Sidewinder, you can have both nudge and tilt if you want... it's all about the tilt sensitivity and other related VPX settings. If having crazy nudge without ever tilting is your thing, you can do that easily.

[gtxjoe]

Bare KL25Z running Pinscape software used to be a cheap $20 solution. Good luck finding one in stock nowadays

[htamas]

There are some Amazon sellers who claim it's in stock... not for $20 though.

One example

[softfish]

KL25Z are out of stock all over. Do you have a ps4 controller by chance?

[AnotherEngineer]

I found a kit on Newark a few weeks back that includes a KL25Z. The boot loader had to be updated, but so far it looks like it is working as expected. Since I ordered mine it has gone up a few dollars in price, but still on the low side. Not sure if that would be an option for you.

https://www.newark.c...ping-NA-Product

[softfish]

I found a kit on Newark a few weeks back that includes a KL25Z. The boot loader had to be updated, but so far it looks like it is working as expected. Since I ordered mine it has gone up a few dollars in price, but still on the low side. Not sure if that would be an option for you.

https://www.newark.c...l-sys-shipping-
 

Did you just take the board off the top?

[AnotherEngineer]

 

I found a kit on Newark a few weeks back that includes a KL25Z. The boot loader had to be updated, but so far it looks like it is working as expected. Since I ordered mine it has gone up a few dollars in price, but still on the low side. Not sure if that would be an option for you.

https://www.newark.c...l-sys-shipping-
 

Did you just take the board off the top?

 

Yes, exactly. It is attached via header pins (female connector on KL25Z), so you can just pull them apart by hand.

[Curious Aardvark]

That kl25z looks like overkill. Seems to come with a full atmospheric suite of sensors.

Im not into heavy nudging, I generally don't nudge real pinball tables at all.

Just never been a fan of tilt :-)

Just seemed like nice idea to have a physical nudge if it could be done fairly easily and cheaply.

[Curious Aardvark]

Currently thinking, has anyone ever made their own accelerometer ?

This is probably oversimplified, but a ball bearing in a shallow depression, and contacts on all 4 sides, should work quite well. Although I'd only need left and right contacts.
Along the lines of the Chinese earthquake detectors.

You could use the switches from 2 standard buttons, so that they closed when the ball hit the contact on that side.

It'd need some experimentation and a few prototypes, but thats what cad and 3d printers are for :-)

As I have buttons, ball bearings of various sizes and 3d printers, I think I'll give it a go.

Just set it up as nudge 'buttons' just not triggered by a button

It won't be fancy, just a simple on off nudge, but that's exactly what I'd get with buttons anyway.

You could adjust the sensitivity by the angle of the declivity, and you'd need to make sure normal play didn't activate it.

What do you reckon ?

[strells]

Currently thinking, has anyone ever made their own accelerometer ?

This is probably oversimplified, but a ball bearing in a shallow depression, and contacts on all 4 sides, should work quite well. Although I'd only need left and right contacts.
Along the lines of the Chinese earthquake detectors.

You could use the switches from 2 standard buttons, so that they closed when the ball hit the contact on that side.

It'd need some experimentation and a few prototypes, but thats what cad and 3d printers are for :-)

As I have buttons, ball bearings of various sizes and 3d printers, I think I'll give it a go.

Just set it up as nudge 'buttons' just not triggered by a button

It won't be fancy, just a simple on off nudge, but that's exactly what I'd get with buttons anyway.

You could adjust the sensitivity by the angle of the declivity, and you'd need to make sure normal play didn't activate it.

What do you reckon ?

 

That's basically a tilt bob, not an accelerometer, since you're talking about just turning on digital switches when nudging.

 

If you're not a fan of nudging, why are you looking for a complicated solution?  The KL25Z, if you can find it, makes it easy.  Or just stick with software-based nudging.  See the guide:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...de.php?sid=tilt

[gtxjoe]

Nudging with buttons
Nudging with mercury switches
Nudging with tilt bob hitting switches
Nudging with Sidewinder Pro
Nudging with KL25z bare board

[JLPicard001]

Currently thinking, has anyone ever made their own accelerometer ?

This is probably oversimplified, but a ball bearing in a shallow depression, and contacts on all 4 sides, should work quite well. Although I'd only need left and right contacts.
Along the lines of the Chinese earthquake detectors.

You could use the switches from 2 standard buttons, so that they closed when the ball hit the contact on that side.

It'd need some experimentation and a few prototypes, but thats what cad and 3d printers are for :-)

As I have buttons, ball bearings of various sizes and 3d printers, I think I'll give it a go.

Just set it up as nudge 'buttons' just not triggered by a button

It won't be fancy, just a simple on off nudge, but that's exactly what I'd get with buttons anyway.

You could adjust the sensitivity by the angle of the declivity, and you'd need to make sure normal play didn't activate it.

What do you reckon ?

Sorry sounds awful. Button nudge also sounds awful. Kl25z is cheap and easy with it's built in accelerometer. Overkill? Perhaps. Future proof? Yep.

[Curious Aardvark]

Good point.

But if you go back to earliest tilt mechanisms, they would have been 100% analog.

So why not go with kl25z, assuming I can find one in the UK.

Several reasons.
1) I'm keeping this build as cheap as I can, expensive ,(relative I realise) electronics are not part of the initial build.
2) I like designing and making things from scratch. So creating a low tech nudge mechanism with hi tech tools appeals to me.

3) my cabinet is designed with Simple and easy access to the full interior.
It's going to be an ongoing project and no doubt all sorts of things will be added, removed and tried.
The computer will definitely be upgraded to a decent Ryzen apu, when prices return to sane level's or I acquire some better faster components for minimal Dosh.

4) I suppose there are at least 2 approaches to virtual pinball.
A) make something as close to an actual physical pinball machine as possible.
B) use the whole idea and concept to change the things you don't like, or just feel like experimenting with.

I'm very definitely in camp B.

And yes making my own accelerometer might not be a great idea, although the concept of analog accelerometers goes back thousands of years, it'll be fun and cheap, and you never know - it might even work :-)

[softfish]

Maybe play with the legs balanced on 4 logs that are floating in your pool or some other body of water, when it tips over you tilted?

 20 bucks and you have a solution for buttons, plunger and nudge with a kl25z, not sure how much cheaper u can get tbh.

[mjr]

And yes making my own accelerometer might not be a great idea, although the concept of analog accelerometers goes back thousands of years, it'll be fun and cheap, and you never know - it might even work :-)

 

If you're committed to a DIY approach, you might consider picking up a MEMS accelerometer breakout board from one of the hobby electronics vendors like Adafruit or Sparkfun.  Adafruit has one for $5.95.  Then you just need something that'll interface it to USB - any microcontroller board will work, from a Teensy to an Arduino to a Raspberry Pi Pico ($9.95).  All of those have sample projects for joystick HID implementation, which is what you need to connect it to VP.  Cheap, DIY, and it should give you proper analog nudge sensing.

[softfish]

I found a kit on Newark a few weeks back that includes a KL25Z. The boot loader had to be updated, but so far it looks like it is working as expected. Since I ordered mine it has gone up a few dollars in price, but still on the low side. Not sure if that would be an option for you.

https://www.newark.c...ping-NA-Product

I went ahead and ordered one for my build. I assume by updating the bootloader you flashed it with the pinscape software? First build here sorry for the dumb question

Edited by softfish, 09 March 2022 - 03:08 AM.