16 replies to this topic

[lukpcn]

[!HELP! !HELP! !HELP!]

I still have sticky keys (not those by windows, because they are off) but just every 200-300 keypress there is no reaction of pressing a button or button is not registering that is not pressed anymore...

 

I've reinstalled windows from scratch, didn't install pinup popper or player. Only VPX + DOF.... and the problem is only happening if I use Directoutput (DOF).

If I set Disable b2s in VPX and don't used DOF then it doesn't happen...

 

Can any1 check my DOF log files and config files ? Maybe the answer is out there ? Or maybe You have some answer to my problem ?

 

I've set all the settings of the backglass, hundred times, nothing helps... there is no stutter, no other problem only those 1 frame lost not registered keypresses....

Help! Please!

here is my dof config files and log: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AszhfOiAjudYg4YSLUXl1JiJ57o-bg?e=7nPL9J

[lukpcn]

any1? please help..

in addition:

I did the test when all the toys PSUs are OFF, then turned off the teensy Leds PSU still getting sticky keys sometimes...

tried changing my leaf switches flipper buttons to ultimarc gold leafs, and for standard poor microswitches - the same....

if I check disable b2s all problems connected to sticking seems to be gone...

but then I have no toys or leds.... I'm gonna go nuts....

[cmt26]

What are you using as your button encoder? A pinscape board or a zero delay encoder?

When I had a zero delay encoder, I had a similar issue. The board would temporarily disconnect from windows. It appeared with my solenoids firing it created too much interference or vibration and I would see the zero delay encoder disconnect from windows. Have you tried looking at your devices on windows and playing and watching to see if any of your board disconnect?

I eventually ditched the zero delay and used the pinscape board for button input only. I also added those wire shield things, cant remember what they are called, but they go around wires to help with feedback (you see them a lot one tv power cords back in the day). I dont know if it helped but maybe.

Also make sure your toys are clean (diodes stuff like that) and also your power supply is good and sending clean power (I originally was using the original 1978 power supply from the pinball cab and repurposed and that power supply had some issues with electrical interference and surges)

Also make sure everything is properly grounded.

Maybe someone can look at your DOF logs and see the issues, thats not me. Im just letting you know what I ran into, and it ended up being lots of interference and that board disconnecting.

Also, I assume you mean button presses do not register and flippers stop working, correct? Not, button presses register but you do not hear Your flipper solenoids firing every time?

[lukpcn]

What are you using as your button encoder? A pinscape board or a zero delay encoder?

When I had a zero delay encoder, I had a similar issue. The board would temporarily disconnect from windows. It appeared with my solenoids firing it created too much interference or vibration and I would see the zero delay encoder disconnect from windows. Have you tried looking at your devices on windows and playing and watching to see if any of your board disconnect?

I eventually ditched the zero delay and used the pinscape board for button input only. I also added those wire shield things, cant remember what they are called, but they go around wires to help with feedback (you see them a lot one tv power cords back in the day). I dont know if it helped but maybe.

Also make sure your toys are clean (diodes stuff like that) and also your power supply is good and sending clean power (I originally was using the original 1978 power supply from the pinball cab and repurposed and that power supply had some issues with electrical interference and surges)

Also make sure everything is properly grounded.

Maybe someone can look at your DOF logs and see the issues, thats not me. Im just letting you know what I ran into, and it ended up being lots of interference and that board disconnecting.

Also, I assume you mean button presses do not register and flippers stop working, correct? Not, button presses register but you do not hear Your flipper solenoids firing every time?

I use KL25Z, the power of the toys should not be a problem because the sticking happens regardles if the power supplies of the toys and leds are shut down or if the are running.
That sticking is really hard to diagnose because one time I run the table and press flipper and it sticks up at 1st keypress and the other time I can play for half an hour without issue...

[lukpcn]

as to the button press registering or not,,, it's like it is not registered and flipper stays down or it is registered pressed, flipper goes up but when released it stays up (it looks like there was some frequency difference between registered presses/depresses and the visual representation in VPX). I was thinking it might be some difference in one of the monitors refresh rate, but checked them and they are all at 60hz.

[gtxjoe]

Try tuning off antivirus software

[lukpcn]

no 3rd party antivirus, the one in windows is disabled, defender is off, VPX in excl. full screen mode or windowed mode (doesn't matter too)

[mjr]

I don't have any guesses about what's going on - I don't think I've heard of anything quite like this before, so I don't have any past experiences to draw on.  But based on the debugging steps you've tried so far, here's what I might try next

 

1. Physically disconnect all of your feedback devices from power

2. Now run with DOF ENABLED as you normally do and see if the problem still happens

 

The reason I propose this is that it might help you distinguish between a hardware problem and a software problem.  One of the theories that's been raised is that you have some kind of electrical interference going on.  If you disconnect all of the toys from power and the problem goes away, even with DOF running at the software level, that would tend to support the electrical interference theory.  If the problem remains even with the toys not physically firing, it would point to a software or USB problem.

 

If the result points to a hardware issue, I would try re-connecting devices ONE AT A TIME, and testing to see if the problem comes back.  That might potentially narrow it down to a single device, in which case you have some options even if it's not obvious how to fix the device, such as just getting rid of that device or replacing it with something similar that might not have the same problem.

 

If the evidence points to a USB or software problem, I have no guess about where to look next, but it would at least focus your search a bit more.

[cmt26]

Could it also possibly be a bad kl25z board? If after doing MJRs diagnoses, and you still have issues, could maybe be something up with the board. When you soldered the pins, maybe one pins solder is touching the other pin? Thats if you soldered your own, even if you didnt, maybe something is touching and causing an issue when things start to fire? MJR would know more on that than me.

[lukpcn]

Could it also possibly be a bad kl25z board? If after doing MJRs diagnoses, and you still have issues, could maybe be something up with the board. When you soldered the pins, maybe one pins solder is touching the other pin? Thats if you soldered your own, even if you didnt, maybe something is touching and causing an issue when things start to fire? MJR would know more on that than me.

But if I check disable b2s in vpx kl25z acts as normal, no sticky at all, not a thing. Only running b2s and direct output framework is making problems.

I don't have any guesses about what's going on - I don't think I've heard of anything quite like this before, so I don't have any past experiences to draw on.  But based on the debugging steps you've tried so far, here's what I might try next
 
1. Physically disconnect all of your feedback devices from power
2. Now run with DOF ENABLED as you normally do and see if the problem still happens
 
The reason I propose this is that it might help you distinguish between a hardware problem and a software problem.  One of the theories that's been raised is that you have some kind of electrical interference going on.  If you disconnect all of the toys from power and the problem goes away, even with DOF running at the software level, that would tend to support the electrical interference theory.  If the problem remains even with the toys not physically firing, it would point to a software or USB problem.
 
If the result points to a hardware issue, I would try re-connecting devices ONE AT A TIME, and testing to see if the problem comes back.  That might potentially narrow it down to a single device, in which case you have some options even if it's not obvious how to fix the device, such as just getting rid of that device or replacing it with something similar that might not have the same problem.
 
If the evidence points to a USB or software problem, I have no guess about where to look next, but it would at least focus your search a bit more.

Thanks, will start by disconecting my dof toys

Edited by lukpcn, 05 March 2022 - 07:57 PM.

[lizard]

I have had this and have seen other posts about it, it used to happen mainly on the first time i loaded a new table.

Have you tried removing the b2s file from the tables folder and running with dof still.

[lukpcn]

I have had this and have seen other posts about it, it used to happen mainly on the first time i loaded a new table.
Have you tried removing the b2s file from the tables folder and running with dof still.

Nope, isn't backglass file needed for dof to work? I think that is not my case because before clean install windows i had the same symptops running T2 with pup pack instead of backglass.

[lukpcn]

@mjr, I disconected all my toys and the problem is still there

[Outhere]

@mjr, I disconected all my toys and the problem is still there

 

Try this move your directoutput folder and The plugins shortcut folder to a thumb drive then try running a game if DOF is causing the problem the problem should be gone

[mjr]

@mjr, I disconected all my toys and the problem is still there

 

Probably a software or USB problem, then.  I would tend to suspect USB, since DOF doesn't have anything to do with the keyboard directly.

 

One thing you might try, which is more a workaround and a test than a solution, is to remap the affected keys as joystick buttons.  The USB keyboard protocol only sends one USB packet each time a key state changes, so if a packet gets dropped at the Windows USB driver level, the key change will get lost forever.  The joystick protocol sends continuous updates whether or not anything changes, so if a packet gets dropped, the change will still register on the next packet a few milliseconds later, and you'll never know that anything went wrong.  So you might give that a try for the flippers and see if the problem goes away.  If it does, I would conclude that you're losing USB packets in your Windows USB drivers, and maybe look into things like (1) making sure drivers are up to date, and (2) removing any "gamer accelerator" software you're running that messes with the USB packet timing.

[lukpcn]

 

@mjr, I disconected all my toys and the problem is still there

 
Probably a software or USB problem, then.  I would tend to suspect USB, since DOF doesn't have anything to do with the keyboard directly.
 
One thing you might try, which is more a workaround and a test than a solution, is to remap the affected keys as joystick buttons.  The USB keyboard protocol only sends one USB packet each time a key state changes, so if a packet gets dropped at the Windows USB driver level, the key change will get lost forever.  The joystick protocol sends continuous updates whether or not anything changes, so if a packet gets dropped, the change will still register on the next packet a few milliseconds later, and you'll never know that anything went wrong.  So you might give that a try for the flippers and see if the problem goes away.  If it does, I would conclude that you're losing USB packets in your Windows USB drivers, and maybe look into things like (1) making sure drivers are up to date, and (2) removing any "gamer accelerator" software you're running that messes with the USB packet timing.

Thx mjr, will investigate more tomorrow.

Edited by lukpcn, 07 March 2022 - 06:21 AM.

[lizard]

 

I have had this and have seen other posts about it, it used to happen mainly on the first time i loaded a new table.
Have you tried removing the b2s file from the tables folder and running with dof still.

Nope, isn't backglass file needed for dof to work? I think that is not my case because before clean install windows i had the same symptops running T2 with pup pack instead of backglass.

 

Backglass file isn't needed just b2s installed, DOF still works without a backglass. But like you say probably not your problem. 

Edited by lizard, 07 March 2022 - 05:55 AM.