51 replies to this topic

[jpsalas]

File Name: Schuss (Rally 1968)

File Submitter: jpsalas

File Submitted: 12 Nov 2021

File Category: VPX Recreations

Author(s): jpsalas
wiesshund
Manufacturer: Other - Pinball
Year: 1968
Permission to MOD?: Yes, without approval

 Based on the table by Rally from 1968.
 
Table and graphics redrawn by me.
Thanks to wiesshund for the directdb2s, the pictures of the table, his first test table, and for tesing it.
Thanks to leeoneil for the DOF commands. 
 

Rules as implemented by me:
 
- 5 balls per game
- Top targets rise the center up-post
- Lower targets lower the center up-post
- Hit the 4 targets to award the extraball (shoot again light)
- Reaching scores of 6900, 800 and 9200 will reward an extra game.
- Each target lits its color lights to score more points.
 

Click here to download this file

[STAT]

Treasures ! Thank you both

[batch]

Thanks, JP & Weisshund for taking the time to do this one

 

French tables are more than rare in VPX !

 

Edit: I forgot to say this table is really beautiful !!!!!!!!!!

Edited by batch, 12 November 2021 - 12:07 PM.

[mopebe]

Hallo JP, vielen Dank für diesen seltenen Flipper, der Rallye-Flip-Tronic-Serie. Ich hatte das Glück, in meiner Jugend ähnliche Geräte ("Rally-Girl" und "Playboy") spielen zu dürfen. Das Besondere: Die Bumper und Sligshots der Flip-Tronik-Tische  funktionieren mit einer besonderen Technik, die dafür sorgt, dass die Reaktion schneller, kraftvoller und viel geräuschärmer ist. Fliptronik-Tische sind dadurch viel schneller, als Tische anderer Hersteller und nerven durch die quietschenden Computer-Sounds der Bumper und Slingshots. Dass nur 6 oder 7 Fliptronik-Tische (1966 - 1969) hergestellt wurden lag wohl daran, dass sie einfach viel zu schnell waren. Leider habe ich kein Video gefunden, auf dem man das sehen und hören kann. 

Lieber JP ich freue mich zwar sehr auf das Wiedersehen eines Fliptronic-Tisches, muss aber leider sagen, dass er viel zu langsam ist, dass die Bumper und Slingshots viel zu wenig Power haben und dass die Töne nicht passen. Vielleicht lässt sich da noch was machen. 

Liebe Grüße aus Hildesheim (Deutschland) sendet

Peter

[Mustang1961]

Dear JP, dear Wiesshund,

 

thank you for this rare table. I played one several times 44 years ago in North Italy (Alassio). The machine was very worn, Peter is right, the slingshot action was impressive - unkomparable with the U.S. designs.

 

Again thank you and best regards, Christian.

[jpsalas]

Hallo JP, vielen Dank für diesen seltenen Flipper, der Rallye-Flip-Tronic-Serie. Ich hatte das Glück, in meiner Jugend ähnliche Geräte ("Rally-Girl" und "Playboy") spielen zu dürfen. Das Besondere: Die Bumper und Sligshots der Flip-Tronik-Tische  funktionieren mit einer besonderen Technik, die dafür sorgt, dass die Reaktion schneller, kraftvoller und viel geräuschärmer ist. Fliptronik-Tische sind dadurch viel schneller, als Tische anderer Hersteller und nerven durch die quietschenden Computer-Sounds der Bumper und Slingshots. Dass nur 6 oder 7 Fliptronik-Tische (1966 - 1969) hergestellt wurden lag wohl daran, dass sie einfach viel zu schnell waren. Leider habe ich kein Video gefunden, auf dem man das sehen und hören kann. 

Lieber JP ich freue mich zwar sehr auf das Wiedersehen eines Fliptronic-Tisches, muss aber leider sagen, dass er viel zu langsam ist, dass die Bumper und Slingshots viel zu wenig Power haben und dass die Töne nicht passen. Vielleicht lässt sich da noch was machen. 

Liebe Grüße aus Hildesheim (Deutschland) sendet

Peter

 

I added first a slingshot, but by the pictures it looked more like a simple leaf switch rather than a slingshot. So for now here are the things that can be updated:

 

- make the table faster

- more power to the pop bumpers

- add an active left and right slingshots

- reduce the volume of the bumper and slingshot sounds

- new sounds? I simply added a few "pong" sounds since I haven't a clue how it sounded 1968 computer/electronic sounds? 

 

I knew someone would remember this table and give a little input about the workings of the table

 

All tips are welcome

Edited by jpsalas, 12 November 2021 - 02:05 PM.

[STAT]

Maybe someone remember about the Sounds, examples at another Table would be a help for sure - love the things like the real one too, of course ...

But sorry, never played at this Machines ... or i was drunk in my youth ( * 1972 ) 

 

Add: had a few Coins now, heh thats fast enough for me

Edited by STAT, 12 November 2021 - 02:33 PM.

[mopebe]

Hallo JP,

ich denke, dass das mit Pong-Sounds gut zu machen ist. Ich kann mich noch recht gut an die Töne erinnern und gebe Dir gerne Rückmeldung, ob sie ok sind.

Was die Bumper anbelangt gibt es bei Fliptronic-Tischen ein anderes Funktionsprinzip, als bei normalen Bumpern: Bei Einem normalen Bumper saust bei Berührung durch eine Kugel ein keilförmiger Ring runter und schlägt sie weg. Bei Fliptronic ist der Bumper eine ca. 1 cm hohe Plastikscheibe, die nach allen Seiten durch die Kugel verschiebbar ist. Sobald sich die Scheibe verschiebt sorgt ein starker Magnet dafür, dass sie augenblicklich wieder in die Ausgangsposition gezogen wird. Dadurch wird die Kugel weggestoßen. Bei einem normalen Bumper ist es ein lauter Schlag, bei Fliptronic ein leiser, schneller, kräftiger Stoß, den man praktisch nicht hört. Man hört nur, dass die Kugel auf Plastik trifft. Bei den Slingshots ist es das Gleiche. Hier ist es das Plastik-Rechteck, welches durch die Kugel verschoben wird und sofort wieder in die Ausgangsposition gebracht wird (kein Gummi). Da muss sicher improvisiert werden, weil diese speziellen Bumper und Slingshots keine normalen VPX-Elemente sind.

 

Ich hoffe, dass ich etwas zur Klarstellung konnte und sende viele Grüße

Peter   

Edited by mopebe, 12 November 2021 - 04:48 PM.

[jpsalas]

Thanks Peter, I understand how those bumpers and slingshots work. That I can fix.

About the sounds: that won't be easy, the best should be to find a video of a similar table from that era which had electronic sounds. I guess I'll spend some time with YouTube

[wiesshund]

Slingshots:

From the limited amount of photos of the bottom side of the playfield, and detailed photos of the topside there are no slingshots
and no mechanisms for them, did not appear to be any magna-coils present (What fliptronic used, instead of a solenoid operated arm).
Maybe they are missing but no way to tell, If someone has other photos, they would be much appreciated

 

Sounds:
Unless someone can find or present a living example of the sounds for JP to work with, it is all up to someone's imagination
Absent any kind of example or evidence, JP made the logical choice for a piece of 1968 electronics

 

As far as my part in this, all i did was take photos of the table, and make a rough mock up
then i tried to get info on the table, complete gameplay, a scrap of manual, video, anything, but no one could offer anything.
The most i got was very conflicting different sets of memories.

And it just sat on the PC, and i thought well that is kind of a waste because it would be kind of a neat looking table, even if someone did it totally to their own design
in lieu of any material to build it differently, so i showed it to JP because it seemed like the kind of thing he could have fun with recreating it to his own imagination.

 

So i really did not do anything but show him some vpx parts sitting on top of a playfield photo, and a zip file of photos.

 

At the end of the day, this is totally JP's work, and it is not a "Recreation" but a "What if JP Salas was the one making this in 1968" table.

Not enough concrete material is present to do a proper recreation, human memory is too flawed, as i have had several people tell me, in french, that they remembered playing this table when they were young adults, and how the multiball was very hard, which is impossible as the table has no multiball, it has no place for the multiple balls to exist at.
As well as totally conflicting memories of the rules, beyond the very short and incomplete text description
So....
 

[njk70]

Not sure if this is helpful. But this is a table from the same manufacturer around the same time. 

Kinda unique sounds, but not many of them.

[wiesshund]

Thanks Peter, I understand how those bumpers and slingshots work. That I can fix.

About the sounds: that won't be easy, the best should be to find a video of a similar table from that era which had electronic sounds. I guess I'll spend some time with YouTube

 

Unfortunately i can not find a video anyplace, of any flop-tronics machine in operation
not even Rally Girl. And as far as a schematic, which would at least give one an idea of what sounds could be generated, yea forget it, may as well have been created in 10,000 BC

It's funny how stuff vanishes, i could better tell you what Ramses had for lunch on his 45th birthday, than the circuitry of the sound board of an object from only a little while ago.
To me 1968 was not that long ago, i can look in my desk and find the manual to that RCA console stereo/TV that was bought at Steinberg's
I mean it was only a few years ago right?

[jpsalas]

Thanks njk70! Those are definitive some unique sounds

[wiesshund]

Not sure if this is helpful. But this is a table from the same manufacturer around the same time. 

Kinda unique sounds, but not many of them.

 

Yes, that is very helpful.

It's a "Horn" generator
sounds like what? 3 tones?

@JP do NOT make it stick on like that, no never ever ever do that LOL

Look at sounds from motorcycle horns and small euro cars, could probably use them as a base

 

@JP you are right, table noise should be hideously loud
Bumpers need to be hideously loud like ball hitting hard plastic LOL

 

Appear to be no slingshots down by the flippers there either, so then Schuss is probably correct as it is in that respect

 

Present Ball speed seems to match as well?
Bumpers would need to be more violent
and i guess if one wanted a correct appearance, disable the rings so that are not visable?

 

I wish Schuss did have slingshots, cause i love the upper left slingshot going all KKND mode on things
VPX could do a slingshot like that just fine, it's all in the animation and the timer speed 

Sound effect: Motorcycle Horn 4 (epidemicsound.com)

 

might be able to repurpose some of these?

[jpsalas]

 That table "Comics" is built very similarly to "Schuss". I'll check that video very closely

[mopebe]

Die Töne vom Video-Clip passen perfekt. Ich habe "Rally-Girl" und "Playboy" genau so in Erinnerung. Es gab bei den beiden Fliptronic-Tischen auch kaum unterschiedliche Töne, sondern nur 2 oder 3.

Ich muss auch ehrlich sagen, dass in unserer Spielhalle viele Jahre ein Fliptronic "Rally-Girl" stand, der aber nicht sehr beliebt war. "Rally-Girl" sah billig aus, war durch die leichte Bauweise wackelig, nervte durch einen grauenvollen Sound und erzeugte kurze, frustrane Spielverläufe. Es gab auch kein Multiball-Spiel oder sonstige Extras. Trotzdem freue ich mich sehr, mal wieder einen Fliptronic-Tisch spielen zu dürfen. Es hat für mich einen großen Erinnerungswert.

[jpsalas]

Thanks for your info, mopebe. I'll upload a new version in a few hours

[jpsalas]

UPDATE

 

1.0.1 Updated 13.11.2021

- made the table faster

- added Fliptronics bumpers

- added more strength to the pop bumpers

- added an active left and right slingshots

- reduced the volume of the bumper and slingshot hit sounds to simply plastic hits

- new electronic sounds

 

I have updated the table based on the feedback received and based the sounds on the video of Rally Comic from the same company.

As I understand, the bumpers and slingshots worked not like the american bumpers, which used solenoids, but they worked with magnets, returning the object to their rest position after a hit. This way they used to hit the ball quite powerfully, and in all directions, as seen in the video at about 2:50 minutes where the ball hits the side of one of the slingshots, and keeps hitting the ball from the slingshot's side  

 

So lets test it

[STAT]

Running down into gameroom ...

Thanks

Edited by STAT, 13 November 2021 - 10:53 AM.

[Thalamus]

Appreciate the efforts to get this as close as possible to the original guys - thanks !

All new to me this one.

Edited by Thalamus, 13 November 2021 - 10:38 AM.