19 replies to this topic

[edizzle]

 

Hello all, I came across the pretty cool EM table I hadn't heard of before from Williams,  called NAGS.  It's a horse racing-themed game and for being made in 1960, seems pretty ahead of it's time.  I was wondering if a B2S backglass would be suitable for handling the moving horses.  Or would something like PUPPACK be a better choice?

 

In addition to the cool mechanical backglass, the playfield has a carousel mechanism that rotates 6 Bumpers around, and each bumper advances the associated horse when hit.  Seems pretty neat. 

 

 

I'm sure one can make a moving bumper in VPX, but I have never done it myself.  I almost want to consider building this table but have never done an EM.  Plus, my short-lived days of table building are behind me.

[Thalamus]

I know that randr was working on a game where there where moving horses in the backglass. Maybe he has some tip in this area.

[unclewilly]

I'd love to do that backglass in vr. If someone releases that I'd like to do the vr conversion

[loserman76]

Hayburners is the one Randr & I worked on that has a similar type of backglass. it's a ton of work to get it to look right.

 

 

Nags would be awesome to do, but that rotating carousel of bumpers is something VPX can't handle. Someone did one in VP8 or VP9 where the bumpers were stationary and changed to "sorta" rotate, but it doesn't compare even close to the real thing.

 

-LM

[wiesshund]

You would almost need to do this table in FSS, as the horses have to have individual arbitrary movement
Be probably impossible in a PUP pack with out 17 million possible backglass animation frames to pick from
I would guess, same for B2S?

 

I would guess you can move the bumpers in VPX, since i already learned you can accidentally flop them around
by mistakenly putting one of their names into the parts of the kicker animation

 

 

[unclewilly]

I would think if you had 6 invisible bumpers. And rotated 6 non collidable prims it shouldn't be too bad. Maybe.
Or can they be hit while rotating?

[wiesshund]

I would think if you had 6 invisible bumpers. And rotated 6 non collidable prims it shouldn't be too bad. Maybe.
Or can they be hit while rotating?

 

The non collidable prims wont be hittable, even if moving
But the invisible real bumpers will be hittable in their fixed locations, even when the prims are moving
So you will have balls going through prims that are between locations, and hitting invisible bumpers when the prims are not in position yet.

 

[unclewilly]

Wasn't sure how the rotation worked.
And i guess the ball can end up in the middle. So the only real way i could think to do it would be oldschool vp9 way with a series of cylinder dropwalls that follow the non collidable prim bumpers as they rotate

[wiesshund]

Wasn't sure how the rotation worked.
And i guess the ball can end up in the middle. So the only real way i could think to do it would be oldschool vp9 way with a series of cylinder dropwalls that follow the non collidable prim bumpers as they rotate

[unclewilly]

If only i were a modeler. I could make it work decently. But unless fss or vr the bg is the issue

[wiesshund]

If only i were a modeler. I could make it work decently. But unless fss or vr the bg is the issue

 

Well, i think you can export a bumper out of VPX as a 3d object

But yea, the horse race in the backglass, i can only see doing inside VPX as an extension of the table, in an FSS format
Which would still be very cool

[unclewilly]

Yeah. For the bumpers i would just make a disc with all 6 bumpers attached as one model and rotate the whole thing. Then dropwalls for the hits.
Primitives would be the only way to do the bg. If someone built the table fss. Which i know nothing about. Id do the rotating bumpers and bg for them

[wiesshund]

Yeah. For the bumpers i would just make a disc with all 6 bumpers attached as one model and rotate the whole thing. Then dropwalls for the hits.
Primitives would be the only way to do the bg. If someone built the table fss. Which i know nothing about. Id do the rotating bumpers and bg for them

 

The FSS part is not too hard.
You literally just build your parts above the table, in the editor

And then you dick around in the script (which is a lot of trial and error for me) to have it rotate and adjust the objects as needed so when the table loads, the backglass
is standing up perpendicular to the table.

But you could build the mechanical aspects of it and make it work 1st in a totally flat fashion
So far, it seems that anything that can be rotated around the various axis, and moved etc via script, is valid for use in an FSS backbox.
So it would be primarily flashers, and prims.

I'd not be a candidate for helping because i barely understand what i am doing enough to be dangerous.
I did manage to get it working on the 2 tables i have made though

 

[edizzle]

Some good conversations going on about possible methods to create the table.  I hope it is possible.  I thought the rotating bumpers would be a challenge, but possible, and the horses do make sense in a FSS layout.  I guess you could also do a FS version with the horses placed on the top of the playfield screen, but I don't think that would look right.  

[wiesshund]

Some good conversations going on about possible methods to create the table.  I hope it is possible.  I thought the rotating bumpers would be a challenge, but possible, and the horses do make sense in a FSS layout.  I guess you could also do a FS version with the horses placed on the top of the playfield screen, but I don't think that would look right.  

 

Probably not.
More likely, just adjust the POV of the FSS table to use up the screen

You could just have the B2S do some fantasy extra stuff if you really wanted, or something.

 

This would be a theoretical question for @Toxie

Would it be possible, with out great difficulty, to allow a VPX table to span screens, somewhat like VP9 did?

Designate a surface as screen2 for example?
Or a table flag that says span screen?, then you could just adjust the POV to push the part that would be the backbox onto the other screen?

Could definitely do some neat things


 

Edited by wiesshund, 09 November 2020 - 11:56 PM.

[edizzle]

 

Some good conversations going on about possible methods to create the table.  I hope it is possible.  I thought the rotating bumpers would be a challenge, but possible, and the horses do make sense in a FSS layout.  I guess you could also do a FS version with the horses placed on the top of the playfield screen, but I don't think that would look right.  

 

Probably not.
More likely, just adjust the POV of the FSS table to use up the screen

You could just have the B2S do some fantasy extra stuff if you really wanted, or something.

 

This would be a theoretical question for @Toxie

Would it be possible, with out great difficulty, to allow a VPX table to span screens, somewhat like VP9 did?

Designate a surface as screen2 for example?
Or a table flag that says span screen?, then you could just adjust the POV to push the part that would be the backbox onto the other screen?

Could definitely do some neat things


 

 

That was my other thought as well...if it was possible to span screens.  I never knew it was done before, and the more I thought about it, seemed like it would be difficult to do so, but it was just a guess on my part.  

[wiesshund]

 

 

Some good conversations going on about possible methods to create the table.  I hope it is possible.  I thought the rotating bumpers would be a challenge, but possible, and the horses do make sense in a FSS layout.  I guess you could also do a FS version with the horses placed on the top of the playfield screen, but I don't think that would look right.  

 

Probably not.
More likely, just adjust the POV of the FSS table to use up the screen

You could just have the B2S do some fantasy extra stuff if you really wanted, or something.

 

This would be a theoretical question for @Toxie

Would it be possible, with out great difficulty, to allow a VPX table to span screens, somewhat like VP9 did?

Designate a surface as screen2 for example?
Or a table flag that says span screen?, then you could just adjust the POV to push the part that would be the backbox onto the other screen?

Could definitely do some neat things


 

 

That was my other thought as well...if it was possible to span screens.  I never knew it was done before, and the more I thought about it, seemed like it would be difficult to do so, but it was just a guess on my part.  

 

 

You can span the screens now, but
1) it requires making the table to non table dimensions, and it will come out a bit monitor specific
2) it requires running your OS in a spanned virtual resolution
3) it will jack up playing every normal table on your setup

It does work, but it is a very specific video setup and table layout that would be utter crap for everything else

[Mitchell]

When I saw the moving racers. I thinking of moving toys. Can toys move across the screen on the VPX? I seen toys spin around looking at the ball. Also move like a cannon.

 

Picture a Ghost toy chasing the ball. Would be cool someone make a Devil Crash pinball with moving demons. Something like that.

Edited by Mitchell, 10 November 2020 - 03:05 AM.

[scarBrick]

These great recreations by Loserman76 and Ukexpat71 answer the OP's question from Nov (practically yesterday   ) ....yes:

 

Hayburners

https://www.vpforums...&showfile=16187

 

Jalopy

https://www.vpforums...showtopic=47879

 

Great conversions though these are, I hope a version of NAGS for VPX comes soon. The playfield is just a cut above the two above (imho) due to the:

- flippers ... operable separately and facing what became the 'standard' way (ie. what we would consider 'normal' today)

- the outlanes....still tough, but slightly more forgiving (and bumper posts more likely to deliver the ball to a flipper) than Jalopy or Hayburners

- the carousel. Appreciating this sounds difficult - a recreation that simply changes the colours (a la the VP9 version) is still playable/enjoyable 

 

Anyway, if anyone's working on NAGS and needs some 'grunt work' done, I'd be very willing to lend a hand.

 

I don't know my way around vpx very well yet, but I've done some basic coding professionally and have a published app where I did all the graphics from scratch.

 

Cheers,

 

sB

 

[wiesshund]

When I saw the moving racers. I thinking of moving toys. Can toys move across the screen on the VPX? I seen toys spin around looking at the ball. Also move like a cannon.

 

Picture a Ghost toy chasing the ball. Would be cool someone make a Devil Crash pinball with moving demons. Something like that.

Prims can do anything really

they can move spin rotate etc