24 replies to this topic

[bluejy2]

For the life of me, I cant get this to run 'correct' (I don't think).   I followed the PinScape Build Guide v2 and still seem to have some issues.  I even found and followed  the Major Frenchy online video's (thanks BTW)

 

In Play---12 v  ATX jumped Power Supply (also supplying 5v for LED Matrix and side LEDs which works fine); LedWiz (running fine for all buttons and Contactors (8); and SainSmart 12 V/5V board- (new to install and using only as a relay).

 

DOF runs fine minus the Shaker--no other cabinet issues that I am aware of:

 

Current Wiring Setup:

12V in and Ground from ATX to Power on Sainsmart (distributed from block)

Output from Sainsmart board to LedWiz-   In this case port 7. 

12V from Power Supply to Common on Sainsmart relay board- Port 7

Ground from Power Supply to Positive of Shaker

Negative from Shaker to NO of Sainsmart- Port 7

Diode between Shaker motor wires. 

 

I have configured DOF to have Shaker on output channel of LEDWiz and turned the intensity down to 1 to 12-  At 48 it shakes the holy hell out of the cabinet. 

 

What I see happening:

 

Shaker engages but buzzes first and then shakes. Feels off....

 

DOF question---without a voltage adjustment---anyone have a good intensity setting for the Stern Shaker Motor (from Pinball Life)-  no control board in play.  Mine are 1 (min) to 15 (max)

Wiring correct?  I will admit---it seems a little off to me.

 

 

Thanks for the help and support!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DDH69]

If you are using a relay board then you only have two intensities,0 and 255, that is on and off.  You cannot use Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) via a relay.  On some occasions if you have a relay on a PWM output you can get "buzzing" of the relay as the power is turned on / off very quickly which is effectively PWM.

 

Set your intensity to 100% / 255 / max when you go via a relay.

[Outhere]

Nudging & Tilt and Plunger Setup https://www.vpforums...e=3#entry413493
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shaker Setup

LEDWiz Setup With 4-Channel DC 5-24V Board

LEDWiz   --->  https://groovygamege...products_id=239

To Buy Mosfet

4-Channel DC 5-24V Green Board  --->   https://www.mondayki...-isolation.html
4-Channel DC 5-24V Green Board  ---> https://nl.aliexpres...2754736331.html

More Option --->  https://www.google.c...Q4dUDCAc&uact=5

 

Put the Port wire from the LEDwiz to in1

Run appropriate Power to the ground and VCC next to the input

Run the + to the Shaker, Solenoid or Fan

on other side of the board hook the ground from the power supply to GND

Then pick one of the outs and that will go to the shaker motor or solenoid

You may want to add a fuse in the circuit

Interconnecting grounds See  -- 45. Power Supplies for Feedback - See link next line

Don't forget about Diodes  --> 53. Coil Diodes - http://mjrnet.org/pi...01602xx&sid=toc

 img_2041-2.jpg   196.68KB   39 downloads

shaker motor

You may or may not need this

I put one of these in between the shaker motor and the output board because sometimes the shaker motor would just go crazy

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

To hook this up take the OUT wire and hook it to the power negative, take the 12+ wire from the power supply hook it to the power +

Then the motor plus and motor negative hook to the shaker motor

 

You may need this
https://www.vpforums...=38357&hl=nudge
https://www.google.c...OMQjJkEegQIDxAB

Edited by Outhere, 16 December 2021 - 05:44 PM.

[bluejy2]

Thanks much to both of you---you both helped a ton.  

 

One quick follow for those who can provide an opinion. Since I have another ATX power supply that can give me 5V---  can I just run this via 5V and not the 12V and have to step down/dial back the total voltage.  I know the LEDWiz can only handle the 5V (hence the relay board) but wondering if I can run the shaker with 5v and skip the relay and Sainsmart.  I really don't need to shake the holy hell out of the cabinet.  I really just want a gentle vibration.   

 

 

 

These forums and you experts provide so much to the newbies here like me---one day I hope to provide more and ask less.   I have learned a lot in the past 9 months of my build and this is the last toy I am adding.  Well maybe not the last----this feels like it is never done.  

Edited by bluejy2, 14 August 2019 - 07:05 PM.

[DDH69]

The LEDWiz board can handle a lot more than 5V.  It runs on 5V, which can come from the USB connection or external, and from memory can switch directly 48v (someone please correct me) and 1 amp combined per bank of 8 outputs.  There are 4 banks of 8 outputs to which you can connect a +ve voltage per bank.  This +ve connection really just provides the equivalent of a flyback diode as the LedWiz switches -ve.

 

If your shaker runs the way you want it on 5V and starts every time (test this with a switch or similar), then yes you could run it on 5V.  From my experience though, a 12V motor on 5V is a long way from what its designed to do, but if it works the way you want - go for it.

 

The correct way to adjust the intensity of the shaker motor is via PWM and a solid state booster circuit rather than a mechanical booster like a relay.  So with a relay you will always have compromises.

[Outhere]

I use a ATX power supply

I use  the 12v with my LEDwiz For my RGB Lights and power for the shaker

I use  the 5v for the addressable LED strips with the Teensy board

[bluejy2]

I use a ATX power supply

I use  the 12v with my LEDwiz For my RGB Lights and power for the shaker

I use  the 5v for the addressable LED strips with the Teensy board

  Top Notch!  Thanks again for the input and discussion.   Anyone want a Sainsmart board?  

[viper]

I used one of these with a LEDWiz   --->  https://groovygamege...products_id=239

4-Channel DC 5-24V

https://www.ebay.com...872.m2749.l2649

 

Put the Port wire from the LEDwiz to in1

Run appropriate Power to the ground and VCC next to the input

Run the + to the Shaker, Solenoid or Fan

on other side of the board hook the ground from the power supply to GND

Then pick one of the outs and that will go to the shaker motor or solenoid

Don't forget about Diodes  -->   http://mjrnet.org/pi...01602xx&sid=toc

img_2041-2.jpg

 

shaker motor

You may or may not need this

I put one of these in between the shaker motor and the output board because sometimes a shaker motor would just go crazy

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

To hook this up take the OUT wire and hook it to the power negative, take the 12+ wire from the power supply hook it to the power +

Then the motor plus and motor negative hook to the shaker motor

 

 

 

i just hooked my contactor up with this method on a pinscape (kl25 board) and as soon as i connect the output 1 wire to the pinscape board it triggers the contactor instantly, in the software the on/off trigger doesn't seem to work at all, i'm using 12V +/- from the pc psu and from the diagram on the opposed side the single ground is coming from the other 24v PSU that controls the contactor, + from that PSU hooked straight upto the contactor's + and ground to the mosfet board same one as your diagram and as i just menioned. little bit confused why its not working and instantly triggering as soon as i connect to the controller board.

 

[clovisvb]

Hello Viper i was having The same problem, it took me 3 months to solver. You need to put a 1k resistor on The dupont wire that goes from The kl25z output to The relay board. And do not put The 5v and The grn wire where you put The inputs on The relay board. You also need to configurate your output as active-low on The pinscape config software.

Edited by clovisvb, 11 November 2020 - 10:33 AM.

[futuremoves]

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm no electronics tech. I don't have a good understanding of how most of this stuff works at the electrical level but I can' follow directions pretty well. Long story short I am experiencing the same issue with ports on my 16 port Sainsmart relay burning out. This issue is ONLY isolated to my solenoids. I have replaced the board 3 times now due to ports no longer working. I have the 1N4007 Diode in place on each of my solenoids.

 

So, I read this thread and picked up a couple 4-Channel DC 5-24V Green Board to work with my 4 solenoids. The issue is I cannot get it to work with my LEDWIZ. I am guessing I have it hooked up incorrectly? Maybe somebody could tell me if this sounds right?

 

I connect the outgoing port from my LEDWIZ (8 in this case) to IN1 of the 4-Channel Mosfet.

I connect the Power/Ground (VCC/GND on the same side as IN1-IN4) to the + and - outputs of my 24V power supply.

I connect the + from my 24V power supply (Solenoid is capable of 5v-36v) directly to my solenoid.

I connect one of the grounds of my 24V power supply to the GND on the other side of the MOSFET board (Same side as OUT1-OUT4 / VCC)

Finally I connect OUT1 on the MOSFET directly to my solenoid.

 

Next I test and it hasn't worked a single time. I've tried two different boards.

 

If I connect the solenoid to one of the working ports of my 16 Port Sainsmart it works without issue.

 

Stumped.

[mrjcrane]

I use a ATX power supply

I use  the 12v with my LEDwiz For my RGB Lights and power for the shaker

I use  the 5v for the addressable LED strips with the Teensy board

I have a similar setup: Sainsmart 8 plus ATX as my power supply. Take 12v. lead over to the shaker motor (Stern Spike Munsters Shaker), is more than enough to shake the table and almost break my glass, I have it throttled back (with a variable resistor) to somewhere between 6 and 9v, and I also have a diode on it to stop de-energizing power from going backward into the Sainsmart. No LED Whiz in my setup, all solenoids also running off the 12v from the ATX supply.

 

Then 5v to illuminate all my buttons running from. USB Control board like this though mine not an exact match this one is very close with improved wiring connector cables.

 

https://www.amazon.c...4081762&sr=8-17

Edited by mrjcrane, 12 October 2021 - 11:38 PM.

[billycarp77]

I'm having a problem with the relays on the Sainsmart board. It worked well for a few days and then not so much. I can hear the relays clicking but there's no output voltage. I'm using 24vdc that is connected to the middle terminal on the relay and the terminal to the left feeds 24vdc to the contactor. I'm using a diode on the contactor. This seems to be a common issue witht the Sainsmart board, no? 

 

What's the best alternative to using the Sainsmart? 

 

Thank you.

[garnel]

I'm having a problem with the relays on the Sainsmart board. It worked well for a few days and then not so much. I can hear the relays clicking but there's no output voltage. I'm using 24vdc that is connected to the middle terminal on the relay and the terminal to the left feeds 24vdc to the contactor. I'm using a diode on the contactor. This seems to be a common issue witht the Sainsmart board, no? 

 

What's the best alternative to using the Sainsmart? 

 

Thank you.

This sounds like your contactors draw too much current for the Sainsmart relay contacts, overdriving and causing them to break/bend over time.

What are you using for contactors? Which Sainsmart board are you using? Lets make sure your Sainsmart has enough drive current capacity - from your problem description it sounds like it may not.

 

FYI - I've removed the Sainsmart relay board in my cab due to poor reliability - the mechanical relays wear out/break over time - after having three fail in a little over a year, I'm now using mosfet drivers that connect directly to the ledwiz. If you decide to go the mosfet route, make sure you have a power supply with enough capacity - my toys run mostly on 12v except for the chime unit and knocker which are 24v. Each one drives four channels and have been working flawlessly in my cab for months now. Four of these replace the 16 channel Sainsmart board. Mosfets require more power - a 12v, 30 amp supply works well. 

 

https://www.ebay.com...pMAAOSwr0ZXNv7d

 

 s-l1600.jpg   40.31KB   5 downloads

 

All the best with your build,

garnel

Edited by garnel, 19 June 2022 - 09:05 PM.

[billycarp77]

 

I'm having a problem with the relays on the Sainsmart board. It worked well for a few days and then not so much. I can hear the relays clicking but there's no output voltage. I'm using 24vdc that is connected to the middle terminal on the relay and the terminal to the left feeds 24vdc to the contactor. I'm using a diode on the contactor. This seems to be a common issue witht the Sainsmart board, no? 

 

What's the best alternative to using the Sainsmart? 

 

Thank you.

This sounds like your contactors draw too much current for the Sainsmart relay contacts, overdriving and causing them to break/bend over time.

What are you using for contactors? Which Sainsmart board are you using? Lets make sure your Sainsmart has enough drive current capacity - from your problem description it sounds like it may not.

 

FYI - I've removed the Sainsmart relay board in my cab due to poor reliability - the mechanical relays wear out/break over time - after having three fail in a little over a year, I'm now using mosfet drivers that connect directly to the ledwiz. If you decide to go the mosfet route, make sure you have a power supply with enough capacity - my toys run mostly on 12v except for the chime unit and knocker which are 24v. Each one drives four channels and have been working flawlessly in my cab for months now. Four of these replace the 16 channel Sainsmart board. Mosfets require more power - a 12v, 30 amp supply works well. 

 

https://www.ebay.com...pMAAOSwr0ZXNv7d

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

All the best with your build,

garnel

 

 

 

According tto the specs, it should be able to handle the load. This is the one that I purchased:

 

 

https://www.amazon.c...ct_details&th=1

 

 

I like the solid state solution that you're using. I'm gonna give that a shot. Thanks so much for the advice. Cheers. 

[garnel]

Just curious - what are you using for contactors?

[billycarp77]

This is what I'm using: 

 

Baomain AC Contactor CJX2-1810 24V 50/60Hz Coil Normally Open 3 Pole 32A

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.c...product_details

[garnel]

This is what I'm using: 

 

Baomain AC Contactor CJX2-1810 24V 50/60Hz Coil Normally Open 3 Pole 32A

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.c...product_details

That's the problem!

The coil is designed for 24 VAC, not 24 VDC that you are using. Try a contactor such as the Siemens 3RH1140-1BB40 or equivalent - with a DC coil.

 

I'm using 12 volt SW3 Ford starter motor solenoids in my cab. You can get them for $10 to $15 each. On average, one fails per year - but they are so inexpensive its no big deal.

 

Here's a link:

https://www.ebay.com...yxoCu1cQAvD_BwE

 

All the best,

garnel

Edited by garnel, 20 June 2022 - 05:32 PM.

[billycarp77]

 

This is what I'm using: 

 

Baomain AC Contactor CJX2-1810 24V 50/60Hz Coil Normally Open 3 Pole 32A

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.c...product_details

That's the problem!

The coil is designed for 24 VAC, not 24 VDC that you are using. Try a contactor such as the Siemens 3RH1140-1BB40 or equivalent - with a DC coil.

 

I'm using 12 volt SW3 Ford starter motor solenoids in my cab. You can get them for $10 to $15 each. On average, one fails per year - but they are so inexpensive its no big deal.

 

Here's a link:

https://www.ebay.com...yxoCu1cQAvD_BwE

 

All the best,

garnel

 

 

 

I didn't even catch that. You've been a lot of help. I ordered the Ford solonoids. Thanks for all of your help. 

[mrjcrane]

Without reading the entire thread; I am using a Sainsmart8 with a Stern Spike "Munsters" Shaker motor without issue ... it will run fine with +12v but that is actually too powerful for my cabinet so I tend to throttle it back to between +5 and +9 volts ... is more than enough for that monster. I do also add a diode across the poles so power does not come back down the line towards the Sainsmart relay when it de-energizes ... that may be overkill but I don't take any chances so I run diodes across all my connected toys to keep it uniform.

[billycarp77]

 

 

I'm having a problem with the relays on the Sainsmart board. It worked well for a few days and then not so much. I can hear the relays clicking but there's no output voltage. I'm using 24vdc that is connected to the middle terminal on the relay and the terminal to the left feeds 24vdc to the contactor. I'm using a diode on the contactor. This seems to be a common issue witht the Sainsmart board, no? 

 

What's the best alternative to using the Sainsmart? 

 

Thank you.

This sounds like your contactors draw too much current for the Sainsmart relay contacts, overdriving and causing them to break/bend over time.

What are you using for contactors? Which Sainsmart board are you using? Lets make sure your Sainsmart has enough drive current capacity - from your problem description it sounds like it may not.

 

FYI - I've removed the Sainsmart relay board in my cab due to poor reliability - the mechanical relays wear out/break over time - after having three fail in a little over a year, I'm now using mosfet drivers that connect directly to the ledwiz. If you decide to go the mosfet route, make sure you have a power supply with enough capacity - my toys run mostly on 12v except for the chime unit and knocker which are 24v. Each one drives four channels and have been working flawlessly in my cab for months now. Four of these replace the 16 channel Sainsmart board. Mosfets require more power - a 12v, 30 amp supply works well. 

 

https://www.ebay.com...pMAAOSwr0ZXNv7d

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

All the best with your build,

garnel

 

 

 

According tto the specs, it should be able to handle the load. This is the one that I purchased:

 

 

https://www.amazon.c...ct_details&th=1

 

 

I like the solid state solution that you're using. I'm gonna give that a shot. Thanks so much for the advice. Cheers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, I ordered the same mosfet drivers & solonoid that you recommended but I'm little confused on how to wire it up. 

 

 

On the input side I wired it like this:

 

 

V+ (12v)

R (output from LED WHIZ)

 

Output

 

Power + (12v+)

Power - (12v-)

R (to solonoid positive)

I have the negaive terminal of the solonoid run straight to negative of 12 volt power supply.

 

What am I doing wrong? 

Edited by billycarp77, 23 June 2022 - 05:04 PM.