10 replies to this topic

[lololol]

hi

I often use kl25z with a relay card and powerful solenoid.

 

but the problem that left and right flippers solenoid heat up too much when  flipper right and left in action.

 

is there any solution to modify the firm of the  kl25z . we can modify the output time of two output kl25z for flipper right and left max 2 seconds holding? 

 

thanks 

[mjr]

You can do something like this using the "Flipper Logic" option for the output ports.

 

If you open the Config Tool and go to the Output section in the Settings page, you'll see a little flipper icon next to each output.  Click that for each of your flipper outputs and set the timing like this:  

 

Initial time - 800ms (maximum setting)

Hold power - 0%

 

The maximum is only 800ms, so it's not quite as long as you have in mind.  But it'll have the right basic effect - it'll cut the solenoid power to 0% after they've been held on longer than 800ms, which will turn off the relay and in turn turn off the solenoids.  So at least you won't have the overheating problem.

 

 

The way Flipper Logic is really intended to be used is that you don't cut the power to 0% after the initial time - you cut it to some safe low PWM level that will keep your solenoids engaged but won't overheat them even if you leave the power on for long periods.  So you'd set it to 20% or 30%, whatever works for your solenoids.  Unfortunately, since you're using relays, you can't take advantage of that - you can only use ON and OFF with relays, 100% or 0%.  If you ever want to upgrade to a MOSFET driver circuit, you should be able to get a much better effect by using the PWM power reduction.  That way the solenoids would be able to stay on as long as you want, so you'd get the correct feedback effect no matter how long the player holds the button on.

Edited by mjr, 01 February 2018 - 10:12 PM.

[STV]

This problem is also alternatively solved by using contactors for the flippers rather than solenoids.   Contactors don't mind staying engaged for as long as you want to hold the button, they do not have the problem with melting like solenoids do.  They can be found for ~$20-30 each.   I used 24V contactors for the flippers and the slings just for variety.  Solenoids for the pop bumpers.   Connected like you describe, using a relay board to send power to the toys. 

[mjr]

This problem is also alternatively solved by using contactors for the flippers rather than solenoids.   Contactors don't mind staying engaged for as long as you want to hold the button, they do not have the problem with melting like solenoids do.  They can be found for ~$20-30 each.   I used 24V contactors for the flippers and the slings just for variety.  Solenoids for the pop bumpers.   Connected like you describe, using a relay board to send power to the toys. 

 

Yeah, I think this is in fact exactly why the Seimens contactors became the device of choice for this.  It's not so much that they're the perfect replica, it's that they don't blow up when stuck on for long periods.  But I can understand the desire to use something that produces a more convincing effect; there's a definite trade-off between realism and simplicity of setup with these.  If price isn't a factor, the perfect option is a real pinball flipper coil assembly, which obviously produces the exact effect, and also solves the overheating problem in its own way.

[lololol]

thank you will test this 

[Outhere]

You have a few options, by Contactors or buy these little Timer relays And wire them in.. They come in 5v and 12v

https://www.ebay.com...Delay &_sacat=0

Or replace your existing hardware with hardware that has that built in

-
Or Go to the DOF config tool website, Under table configuration look up the name of the table , On the right side add some information which will control how long the solenoids stay on every time goes on....

After you make the changes on the site, go to the bottom of the page save configuration and then click on generate config and put those files Where you normally Put them...

Here are some examples of what you will find generally the solid state games are S46/S48 And for the EM tables it's generally E with a number after it, And sometimes there's a combination of both....
...
Here are some examples...

Make sure you put a space between the number that's there and the 60 or 120 that you add Like in the sample

Or add this  @t@ in place of the 60 or 120... it will match the duration you have set for Targets On the DOF website

Example: Add 120 Which stands for .120 tens of a second or Add 30 stands for 3 tens of a second

S46 120

S1 30/S2/S48 60

E105 120/E112

E107 60

E109 120/E112

S46 @t@

DOF website - https://configtool.v...se.com/app/home

 

Or use this little program that this person came up with....

I personally have not tried this program

https://www.vpforums...topic=42108&hl=
 

Edited by Outhere, 11 May 2025 - 03:31 PM.

[lololol]

wow thanks 

[rickh]

You have a few options, by Contactors or buy of these little Timer relays And wire them in..

https://www.ebay.com...=item282f4268b8
[snip]

Sweet!  Thanks!

 

Rick

[DJM3SA]

You have a few options, by Contactors or buy of these little Timer relays And wire them in..

https://www.ebay.com...=item282f4268b8
Or Go to the DOF config tool website, Under table configuration look up the name of the table , On the right side add some information which will control how long the solenoids stay on every time goes on....

After you make the changes on the site, go to the bottom of the page save configuration and then click on generate config and put those files Where you normally Put them...

Here are some examples of what you will find generally the solid state games are S46/S48 And for the EM tables it's generally E with a number after it, And sometimes there's a combination of both....
...
Here are some examples...

Make sure you put a space between the number that's there and the 60 or 120 that you add Like in the sample

Or add this  @t@ in place of the 60 or 120... it will match the duration you have set On the DOF website

Add the 120 Which stands for .120 tens of a second

S46 120

S1/S2/S48 60

E105 120/E112

E107 60

E109 120/E112

S46 @t@

I think this would be a solution to my 12volt car starter solenoid flippers (holding them for longer periods , example: Multiball). However I am not really to sure how to wire these correctly. I use a Ledwiz with a Booster board. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. 

[Outhere]

For my info what Booster board are you using?

 

If you use the little timer relays you would have to put it between the LEDwiz and the booster board

Because if you have it after the booster board The relay will wear out after a while

You take the port wire from the ledwiz and hook it to the DC negative on the board

Then you also take and loop from the DC negative over to the common on the other side the board

Then you Hook 12V + to the DC Plus on the board

Then you take the normally open (NO) and wire that to the Booster board

 

If that don't work right - Another words if you hit the flipper button a 2nd time and nothing happens then try this...

 

You take the port wire from the ledwiz and hook it to the In1

Then you also take an loop from the In1 over to the common on the other side the board

Then Hook DC -  to the DC negative on the board

Then Hook 12V + to the DC Plus on the board

Then you take the normally open and wire that to the Booster board

Wiring like this will cause the relay to turn on once when you 1st apply power

 

On the board itself you will need to program it so it works the way you want it

I don't know if it comes with directions - But I found this - directions are In the description

https://www.ebay.com...id=271411932106

 

 

-------------------------

You could always make the changes to the individual games on the DOF website or try this new little software, I personally have not tried it yet

https://www.vpforums...topic=42140&hl=

[DJM3SA]

For my info what Booster board are you using?
 
If you use the little timer relays you would have to put it between the LEDwiz and the booster board
Because if you have it after the booster board The relay will wear out after a while
You take the port wire from the ledwiz and hook it to the DC negative on the board
Then you also take and loop from the DC negative over to the common on the other side the board
Then you Hook 12V + to the DC Plus on the board
Then you take the normally open (NO) and wire that to the Booster board
 
If that don't work right - Another words if you hit the flipper button a 2nd time and nothing happens then try this...
 
You take the port wire from the ledwiz and hook it to the In1
Then you also take an loop from the In1 over to the common on the other side the board
Then Hook DC -  to the DC negative on the board
Then Hook 12V + to the DC Plus on the board
Then you take the normally open and wire that to the Booster board
Wiring like this will cause the relay to turn on once when you 1st apply power
 
On the board itself you will need to program it so it works the way you want it
I don't know if it comes with directions - But I found this - directions are In the description
https://www.ebay.com...id=271411932106
 
 
-------------------------
You could always make the changes to the individual games on the DOF website or try this new little software, I personally have not tried it yet
https://www.vpforums...topic=42140&hl=

Sorry about the late replay did not expect a replay so quickly. 
 
I am using a Zeb booster board. I follow your advise and see if it works. Thank you for the replay.