207 replies to this topic

[BorgDog]

Overall looks and plays great!  Really liking this.

 

A few comments/suggestions:

 

To make it work better at different inclinations (get rid of gaps on sides):

• lower leftrail to z of 65
• lower rightrail to z of 365
• lower Ramp49 (lockdown bar) to height of 110

May also want to add Ramp49 (lockdown bar) to the script removals for FS view (lines 60-70)

 

When the ball is rolling back down the playfield from the pop bumper area it seems to catch a lot on smlGate messing up the flow of the game, did not see that in the videos I watched (did not watch them all).  Moving smlGate to the left a bit so it more lines up with the primitive seems to take care of that and has not caused any unwanted center drains from there in the time I've played it

 

It seems to me that the face is really dark compared to the rest of the table, like its in a dark hole or something.  See the comparison to the PAPA video (on the left), see how much more evenly lit that is.  edit. just went and looked at Laylow's videos a page and version or two back, it was much better then, something get turned off?

 

Edited by BorgDog, 12 October 2016 - 03:18 AM.

[Ben Logan]

Nice observations, Dark.

 

A few more to add:

 

* Love the way the ball now reflects all the little white lights surrounding the BOP's head when you lock a ball. Maybe it did that before (?) Boy does it look beautiful.

* Thanks for adding wireramp sound. Realism!

* Just noticed the rubbers on the upper playfield are animated. Really nice touch!

[dark]

Gotta say though, that side by side comparison really shows how close to the real thing this rendition of BOP has become.

[RustyCardores]

I'm so chuffed to be finally playing this on VPX... it's awesome work. Huge thanks.

 

One thing I would personally like to see, or should I say "hear" is a bump sound associated with the lower playfield rubbers.  Low bass "Bumps" like this make a huge difference to people like me that are using sound driven tactile feedback.  

 

Cheers again for the awesome work.

Edited by RustyCardores, 12 October 2016 - 03:46 AM.

[Ben Logan]

Gotta say though, that side by side comparison really shows how close to the real thing this rendition of BOP has become.

You guys' version looks better!

[wrd1972]

Borg,

The face lighting is actually still a WIP. I added a darker image because I thought the current one was too light. The screen grab you posted says otherwise.

 

And thanks for the real side-by-side. This is a tremendous new resource and I can easily dial things in a good deal better than they already are. I want to try to widen that shuttle ramp as well. This might address the concerns that have come in from the difficulties hitting it. Will fix that wire from the pop bumpers as well.

 

All of the others, thanks for the reponses. Consider them being implemented.

 

So one other thing I am going to start doing, is start evaluating visuals using a screen grab. Looking at the actual cab TV is very misleading.

Edited by wrd1972, 12 October 2016 - 10:25 AM.

[STAT]

 bop_wow.PNG   224.59KB   15 downloads

[wrd1972]

Oh and I forgot to mention. Expect the side by side pic from Borg to look much more similar on the next go.

[dark]

I think you should probably keep in mind also that PAPA videos are generally fairly well lit which may not be a typical lighting environment for a pin, so if it's a bit darker I don't think that's such a bad thing.

[Drybonz]

I think if the elements (face, playfield, etc) are balanced people will be able to adjust the "room lighting" to their taste with the day/night slider... but if the elements aren't matched for lighting it won't look right no matter what the position of the slider is.

[wrd1972]

The issue with the face is fixed. In FS mode, the face was fine..but too dark in DT mode. Cant explain that one but I now have a brighter second image that will be used in DT mode. Right now, I dont think things are completely balanced because when I turned the slider up, things got super bright and a little disorderly. Addressing the lighting balances is on the list of to-dos.

[vampirolatino2]

Thanks for your hard work!

[dark]

I think if the elements (face, playfield, etc) are balanced people will be able to adjust the "room lighting" to their taste with the day/night slider... but if the elements aren't matched for lighting it won't look right no matter what the position of the slider is.

Well said.

 

 

The issue with the face is fixed. In FS mode, the face was fine..but too dark in DT mode. Cant explain that one but I now have a brighter second image that will be used in DT mode. Right now, I dont think things are completely balanced because when I turned the slider up, things got super bright and a little disorderly. Addressing the lighting balances is on the list of to-dos.

This sounds like it could be due to the environment map lighting, which we don't have much control over.  Maybe adjusting the material to have more or less effect from the environment lighting would help.  I know I read recently in the vpx beta thread that you can swap materials, maybe have it swap material and or texture for the DT view if it keeps giving you trouble in this regard.

[wrd1972]

Thats what I did, an image swap based on DT or FS mode. Looks real good now.

[Drybonz]

This is just beta feedback, and again, not a problem with the table in any way... just 100% personal preference observation, etc... so please feel free to disregard or throw in the ring with the rest of the feedback...

 

I'm comparing beta 1 to beta 3... specifically the blacked out table inserts, and I understand this was done intentionally, but I feel like I like the visible "dim" inserts from beta 1.  This may just be because it is what I'm used to seeing on tables, but I think I like seeing the inserts even when the backlight is off.

[flupper1]

@Drybonz: easy to change: change the basecolor of material "pf lights" to 128,128,128 or something like that.

 

could be personal preference but for night mod:

- night>day cycle all the way to the left

- env. emission scale set to 1 (or maybe even 0,5)

- basecolor of material "pf lights" to 35,35,35

- bloom strength to 0,6

Looks very nice on my cab...

Edited by flupper1, 12 October 2016 - 07:59 PM.

[hauntfreaks]

as for the papa and current beta... it just needs to be a happy medium... because like Dark pointed out those papa videos are meant to be about to see the ball at all times, like a well lit kiddyland arcade in the 70's

[BorgDog]

I think dark had it right though, it's definitely the environment image/lighting that is causing the issue for DT views.  that it is a totally different looking table when in DT vs FS is an issue in my mind.  It's almost like the light source or image are fixed relative to room, and rotating the cabinet gives it different lighting effects, when what we are really doing is not rotating the cabinet in the room (environment), but changing our viewpoint of the table. the lighting on the table should not change because of that, maybe a little, but not that much.  Having to resort to totally separate images to get the same effect shouldn't be happening.  again imho

 

edit:  this definitely explains however why when I'm building tables they look way different on my laptop or desktop vs on my cab.

Edited by BorgDog, 12 October 2016 - 08:13 PM.

[hauntfreaks]

I think sometimes in DT its like you're viewing the lights on horizontal plan, I think this is because the lights are flat like a gel filter not a ball of light , like real light is... 

so when you looking down at the tables in FS, youre looking thru the light filter and DT you looking at the light as if the edge of a piece of paper.... I could be 100% off on this theory 

[BorgDog]

I agree, but I think in this case there are no lights that are lighting that area, it's just the environment.