1394 replies to this topic

[toxie]

As it worked pretty well with the VP915 thread, i thought i'll open a new one for the new VP916 phase, so all ppl that want to assist in testing Koadics daily builds, feel free to post feedback and bugs here.

 

Note that, especially in the beginning of a new dev cycle, bugs come and go frequently, so don't expect nice working daily builds in general.

[TedB]

All daily builds from Koadic.

https://www.dropbox....VPinball Builds

 

As I have understood 9.1.6 starts at rev 504, but please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[tipoto]

Just an idea... Do you think it would be possible to add an option to choose the channel (Left of Right) we want to display the EMreels on, for 3D stereo purpose? That way we could fake the 3D with the EMreels by using 2 different textures with 2 different points of view.

[kiwi]

I read in another thread that Fuzzel says that the primitive objects dependent on the CPU.
I have a simple test table with 8 primitive objects, no alpha ramps, I see that the CPU is at 25% and the GPU at 99% .
Another thing that I said , when I press the F11 key to check the frames, the GPU drops to 71% and the flippers lag disappears (maybe it can help you understand how to optimize primitive objects).

 

Thanks

 

Max

[EalaDubhSidhe]

I expect that primatives will universally FANTASTIC once DX-9 optimization has been able to be carried out... but not before then.

[fuzzel]

I read in another thread that Fuzzel says that the primitive objects dependent on the CPU.
I have a simple test table with 8 primitive objects, no alpha ramps, I see that the CPU is at 25% and the GPU at 99% .
Another thing that I said , when I press the F11 key to check the frames, the GPU drops to 71% and the flippers lag disappears (maybe it can help you understand how to optimize primitive objects).
 
Thanks
 
Max

In the newer builds primitives are rendered by using vertex buffers this is only another step towards DX9. Primitives are rendered each frame instead of blitting them as most of the other stuff. I haven't checked the GPU usage after the change though

[toxie]

Something to test for you guys:

 

I just (rev 544) added configurable lightsources to VP, that means you can now replace the two (for now its two) builtin lightsources with whatever params you like..

Please let me know how that goes or if there are any quirks.. The only downside for now is that DX7 still runs on vertex lighting, i.e. everything that is badly tesselated (f.e. a wall that stretches over the full table like commonly used) will look like crap with this as the lighting will only be done on the corners and then interpolated..

 

But maybe i'll add a tesselation option for this kinds of low-polygon walls?

[LoadedWeapon]

Cool I will run some test/benchmarks tomorrow when I get in. Thanks for all the continued work.

[kiwi]

I read in another thread that Fuzzel says that the primitive objects dependent on the CPU.
I have a simple test table with 8 primitive objects, no alpha ramps, I see that the CPU is at 25% and the GPU at 99% .
Another thing that I said , when I press the F11 key to check the frames, the GPU drops to 71% and the flippers lag disappears (maybe it can help you understand how to optimize primitive objects).
 
Thanks
 
Max

In the newer builds primitives are rendered by using vertex buffers this is only another step towards DX9. Primitives are rendered each frame instead of blitting them as most of the other stuff. I haven't checked the GPU usage after the change though

Thanks fuzzel for the explanation.
Even before the changes, the primitive objects used much GPU.
Thanks for the continuous improvements to the VP.

 

Max

[kiwi]

Wow , Super new feature.
I still don't understand how it works, but it seems very interesting.
Change from day to night is now very easy.

 

Thanks

 

Max

[toxie]

It's actually pretty simple:

VP previously -always- had two lightsources enabled, but both were hardwired to be directional lightsources (basically like infinetly far away lightsources, is nowadays still used in games/rendering from time to time to "emulate" f.e. sun-lighting) that had fixed orientation, so already this was screwed up as soon as you tweaked table parameters like rotation. Then also the colors were hardcoded (to what you see if you open the "new" table for example), which also sucked extremeley IMHO.

Now you can tweak which lightsource type (point (uses pos), spotlight (uses pos and dir) or directional (uses dir)) and colors (unfortunately this is still an ancient lighting model with stupid parameter splitting into ambient, diffuse and specular) are used. And of course you can change pos and/or dir: both are in the same coordinate system as the table (i hope ..at least i tried), so x and y are the same as the table elements, z is correspondend to height.

 

As an example: if you create a directional light with dir 0,0,-1 (pos is not needed for directional) then you have a light that is exactly over the table and shining equally over the full table.

If you create a point light with pos 500, 1000, 400 (dir is not needed for point) then you have a light that is roughly in the middle of your table and floating near the virtual playfield glass (depends on the table dimensions of course) shining in all directions.

If you create a spot with pos 500, 1000, 400 and dir 0,0,-1 then you have a light similar to the point light, but only shining in a certain direction.

Edited by toxie, 22 April 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[jpsalas]

Interesting!

[kiwi]

Now everything is clear.
This was an excuse to say thank you before I had tested well.
Would be good if you could save the settings of the lightsources such as "preset" (drop-down selection), so we may have more available settings of the lights, and the same thing for setting of the table,inclination,FOV,Layback,etc...

 

Thanks Again

 

Max

[jimmyfingers]

Has some cool potential and looks like a nice quick way to make tables darker and set some nice "moods".  However, would it be possible to be able to exclude light objects as they don't really look "lit" afterward -  currently when the table has been darkend so are the light objects.  It seems that basic VP lights, without textures mapped to them, still show their normal colours / brightness regardless of the new light source settings but lights based on graphics / textures get the affect applied. 

 

Would be awesome to make the lights really pop if they could be exluded or a flag set on light objects to bypass / enable the lighting effects / table darkening (don't know why right now basic lights already bypass this but textures do not).  In a general sense too, having the option to bypass the lighting on playfield lighting / light objects for playfield GI would be great as some really nice photoshop work can end up losing a lot of pop sometimes with the way VP seems to render things and I suspect that these light source aspects (from the past and staticly set) have had a role.  Would love to get the chance to check this out more if lights could still be there intended brightness.  Thanks guys for the continued tweaking and ideas on making VP better.

Edited by jimmyfingers, 22 April 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[toxie]

Great idea.. Shouldn't be a problem..

[kruge99]

I wonder if this is a progression to the next step - an actual 'light-bulb' object that casts light, and objects that block the rays, cast shadows...   

[unclewilly]

Along the lines of what jimmy said about the light objects. Perhaps the same flag for alpha ramps as they are being used for flashers more frequently now. This is very interesting settings. Been playing with it a little Thanks for all your work on vp. A light bulb object. That would be awesome. But not so easy to implement mr kruge, I would imagine

[toxie]

I wonder if this is a progression to the next step - an actual 'light-bulb' object that casts light, and objects that block the rays, cast shadows...   

 

Rest assured that i would be the first to tackle this, but for now realtime ray tracing is just a tiny bit too slow to do useful stuff..

And doing all of that with rasterization is just a nightmare IMHO..

But rendering technology is pretty close nowadays to have reasonably fast realtime ray tracing on high end cards..

(and here is an example of how pinball could look with ray tracing: http://igad.nhtv.nl/...re Be Light.msi (not done by me, but a colleague of mine))

[toxie]

It seems that basic VP lights, without textures mapped to them, still show their normal colours / brightness regardless of the new light source settings but lights based on graphics / textures get the affect applied. 

 

I just looked at the source for that, and as usual, there are whacky special cases all over the place that cause this.. :/

[faralos]

you mentioned that walls that cover the entire play field area still can't be used

 or would look odd,

 do you mean walls that are used for play fields that drop?

or ones that do not drop but stay up for images to be placed onto them for art in the pf

and to have light bulbs that can be moved around would be the bees knees!

 imagine play field flasher bulbs that look real and cast real time shadows!

now all vp needs are reflections to truly rival fp!