7 replies to this topic

[Osprey101]

So, I decided to get a new Rottendog MPU327 to replace the MPU and Driver boards in my Williams Flash.
Flash is a Williams System 4 build, and Rottendog's MPU327 will work in all Williams sys3 - sys7 machines.
The board was $308.00 USD, with shipping.
The nice thing about this board is that, this one board, replaces two boards and, it gets rid of that dreaded 40 pin connector.
There are other replacement, new architecture boards, but I decided to try Rottendog's board because I would only need the one board, which made it cheaper in the long run, and, this board can run in a ton of different machines.
So I ordered it. When I put it in, I did two DUMB things. First, I need new glasses (which will be here any day), so I did not see that dip switches are now small rocker switches. couldn't figure out why they wouldn't switch! Thank god for my grandson and his good eyes. So that got us on the right track. Well, after we called Jim Knight, the builder of the damn thing... lol.
Anyhow, Dumb thing number two was: Once I got it set right, certain switches were not working and I could not add credits or use the "start game" button to change settings. When I talked to Jim about this, he was on the road and and said he was not able to troubleshoot at the time but he would have another board sent out.
Jim was super nice and very helpful, to the best of his ability.
So I got the new board. Here is the DUMB part: When I went to put the new board in, (this is embarrassing), I found that I had not connected two of the plugs. DOH! In the long run though, this was fortunate.
I connected the plugs and everything was GO!
BUT...
First of all, the machine played totally different in that, switches that worked fine with the original boards, now did not trigger as they should; either not at all, or multiple triggers off of one hit. I figure this is just a matter of dialing in the switches to the new board's personal tastes. Still odd though.
The second thing that I was not happy with was the fact that I watched a video of a guy with one of the MPU327 boards, and he showed a cool feature where any coil that locked on, would release after 70ms.
I did not find this to be the case on my new board. I tested repeatedly, and that feature is not there.
The third thing issue is the one that bothers me most: There are incorrect or missing sounds.
One of the notable features of Flash is that it was the first machine to have a background sound. This sound does not come on when it is set to. By default, the background sound is off (weird considering it was s first), but all you need to do is change function/setting 33 from 00 to 01, and that enables the background sound.
It did not come on, and yes, the machine did preserve the setting.
The other sound that is incorrect is the sound that is made with when the ball enters the kick-out hole on the right side of the PF, when the 10,000 light is lit. The correct sound that should play is a solid, rising tone. The sound that does play is the same sound that plays when the 5000 light is lit: the "hit lit target" sound.
So I said to myself, "Self, we have another nice new board here. Let's see how it runs." This is why it was fortunate I had it.
Next complaint: The clips on the plugs are CHEAP and break easy. I broke two! Luckily, the clip is in two segments so it will still function if I had to keep it. But, I have removed the original boards AT LEAST 10 times and NEVER broken a clip.

So how did the other board do?
Well, the switch issue is still there, but not as bad, which I find odd. I would would expect more consistent results, no matter if I liked them or not.
The sound issues still persist though.
I do still have the original boards and they do still run, so I know the sound does (should) work.
I called the place I ordered them from and explained everything. He said to send both board back.
I will update this as we go along.

[hgpinball]

As an alternative, maybe take a look at http://www.pinballpcb.com/ ... I didn't try these boards myself, but they look quite promising (heck, Rottendog also did until now).

[Osprey101]

As an alternative, maybe take a look at http://www.pinballpcb.com/ ... I didn't try these boards myself, but they look quite promising (heck, Rottendog also did until now).

Greywolf also recommended boards from them. Once this is resolved, I think that is what I will do. Although, I think I will have the originals fully shopped and replace with new boards next Christmas.
I am still giving Rottendog a chance to correct this though.

[hgpinball]

yes, they deserve a chance! Give us an update once everything is resolved.
I had thought about buying the pinballpcb cpu and driver boards for my Firepower when I started to restore it, but until now I still repair the original boards and replace chips if necessary... this happened once in the last year. Of course, looking at the age of these boards and their components, short over long a replacement will be necessary, but I'll rather wait that doing something proactively.

[Osprey101]

I spoke with Jim Knight again today and I now have the background sound working!

It seems that at some point during the manufacture of Flash (19,505 units produced. The third largest production run.), the ROM changed from the sys4 ROM, to a sys6 ROM. My original boards use the sys4 ROM so the function to enable the background sound, WAS 33. NOW (with the Rottendog board) it is 31.
I am guessing this also accounts for the different sound when you hit the kick-out hole with 10,000 lit. I asked Jim about this and he was unaware that there was a sound difference. I plan on pursuing this further to see if this will ever be coded into future boards.
I have also decided to overlook the sound difference since eventually, I would like to have a Firepower sitting next to Flash, and this board would run in Firepower. Then I will either have the original boards for Flash rebuilt or get the ones from pinballpcb.
I love the early Williams SS machines so this board will be very good to have around.

The next thing I need to do now is clean and adjust every single switch on the pf. Some seem to be too sensitive while others don't trigger as the should. Weird but, I will see if adjusting fixes this. It is a new board, after all, so I am not surprised that things are a bit different.

There was one other thing I found out about the board: I thought there was a sort of safety shunt built into it, so that if a switch is stuck on, after 70ms, the coil would release. This feature is no longer used as they found it to be the cause of a "machine-gunning" problem people were having.

And finally, I did have the board out, ready to ship. When I removed the first board, I broke two clips. These clips are cheap in that they have very little flex. If you need to remove the board, you don't need to pry out very much at all with the clips on the Rottendog board. I managed to remove the second board without incident.
So now the adjusting begins. I will let you know how it goes.

Edited by Osprey101, 08 February 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[spalmer]

I spoke with Jim Knight again today and I now have the background sound working!

It seems that at some point during the manufacture of Flash (19,505 units produced. The third largest production run.), the ROM changed from the sys4 ROM, to a sys6 ROM. My original boards use the sys4 ROM so the function to enable the background sound, WAS 33. NOW (with the Rottendog board) it is 31.
I am guessing this also accounts for the different sound when you hit the kick-out hole with 10,000 lit. I asked Jim about this and he was unaware that there was a sound difference. I plan on pursuing this further to see if this will ever be coded into future boards.
I have also decided to overlook the sound difference since eventually, I would like to have a Firepower sitting next to Flash, and this board would run in Firepower. Then I will either have the original boards for Flash rebuilt or get the ones from pinballpcb.
I love the early Williams SS machines so this board will be very good to have around.

The next thing I need to do now is clean and adjust every single switch on the pf. Some seem to be too sensitive while others don't trigger as the should. Weird but, I will see if adjusting fixes this. It is a new board, after all, so I am not surprised that things are a bit different.

There was one other thing I found out about the board: I thought there was a sort of safety shunt built into it, so that if a switch is stuck on, after 70ms, the coil would release. This feature is no longer used as they found it to be the cause of a "machine-gunning" problem people were having.

And finally, I did have the board out, ready to ship. When I removed the first board, I broke two clips. These clips are cheap in that they have very little flex. If you need to remove the board, you don't need to pry out very much at all with the clips on the Rottendog board. I managed to remove the second board without incident.
So now the adjusting begins. I will let you know how it goes.

I used a Rottendog board in my Firepower before I sold it and it worked great. FYI, I have a set of Original Firepower boards laying around if anybody needs them. The Driver Board has been shopped and is ready to go. The driver board will work in system 3 - 7 (will have to swap a few resistors for jumpers to work in system 7 pin) Not sure about the status of the CPU board. The last time I used it, the score displays were garbled. I think the entire problem was the 40 pin interconnect but since I now longer own the machine kind of hard to test.

[Osprey101]

I spoke with Jim Knight again today and I now have the background sound working!

It seems that at some point during the manufacture of Flash (19,505 units produced. The third largest production run.), the ROM changed from the sys4 ROM, to a sys6 ROM. My original boards use the sys4 ROM so the function to enable the background sound, WAS 33. NOW (with the Rottendog board) it is 31.
I am guessing this also accounts for the different sound when you hit the kick-out hole with 10,000 lit. I asked Jim about this and he was unaware that there was a sound difference. I plan on pursuing this further to see if this will ever be coded into future boards.
I have also decided to overlook the sound difference since eventually, I would like to have a Firepower sitting next to Flash, and this board would run in Firepower. Then I will either have the original boards for Flash rebuilt or get the ones from pinballpcb.
I love the early Williams SS machines so this board will be very good to have around.

The next thing I need to do now is clean and adjust every single switch on the pf. Some seem to be too sensitive while others don't trigger as the should. Weird but, I will see if adjusting fixes this. It is a new board, after all, so I am not surprised that things are a bit different.

There was one other thing I found out about the board: I thought there was a sort of safety shunt built into it, so that if a switch is stuck on, after 70ms, the coil would release. This feature is no longer used as they found it to be the cause of a "machine-gunning" problem people were having.

And finally, I did have the board out, ready to ship. When I removed the first board, I broke two clips. These clips are cheap in that they have very little flex. If you need to remove the board, you don't need to pry out very much at all with the clips on the Rottendog board. I managed to remove the second board without incident.
So now the adjusting begins. I will let you know how it goes.

I used a Rottendog board in my Firepower before I sold it and it worked great. FYI, I have a set of Original Firepower boards laying around if anybody needs them. The Driver Board has been shopped and is ready to go. The driver board will work in system 3 - 7 (will have to swap a few resistors for jumpers to work in system 7 pin) Not sure about the status of the CPU board. The last time I used it, the score displays were garbled. I think the entire problem was the 40 pin interconnect but since I now longer own the machine kind of hard to test.

I am always watching for a Firepower (and know where a beat up one is). I would be interested in your boards. Gonna PM you.

[rottendog]

Yes,  your assumptions of the system 4/6 for Flash are correct.  There are two different settings for Flash.  A copy of the Williams service bulliten will be attached (if I can figure out how to do it).  If I am unsuccessful, I can send it to direct if you email us through our web site at www.rottendog.us.

 

No I do not see a way to attach a file in this forum.  The fix for this is easy.  Just contact us!

 

Jim Knight

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