96 replies to this topic

[grimwasere]

well it looks like they are at it in the uk now even advertising on ebay

http://arcadewarehou...ehousenews.aspx

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item19c6df24b2


before long no one is going to make tables or software with people like this around taking other peoples hard work to make a profit and its going to ruin it for all the vp fans and table and software makers surely they can be stopped?

[TheMcD]

...some people just don't learn, do they?

The McD

[Noah Fentz]

People always seem to think FREEWARE means free to commercialize.

I'll look into whether they've actually licensed anything or not. Until we know, it's a bit unfair to pass judgment.

Besides, the PF monitor looks all washed and cheap. Nothing that's going to last long.

[koklay2014]

I'm not congratulating them or anything but at least these guys are giving credit to visual pin and hyperpin instead of Bifuca blatenly changing tables slightly and calling their own...

But like the ones before they too must be brought down through reports and complaints...

[grimwasere]

"I'll look into whether they've actually licensed anything or not. Until we know, it's a bit unfair to pass judgment."

yea sorry noah i just joined this little community because of the love of pinball and have come to respect it and all on it and i realise how hard it is and how much time it takes a lot of you guys to make software and tables for everyone to use and lately i see what effect it is starting to have on the table makers and i just hope that one day they dont just say enoughs enough
and give up i was using vp when it first came out and it was quite good, then i didnt bother with it as it didnt seem right playing on a 17inch screen horizontally with a keyboard, and i have seen the commitment and progress made and now it just blows my head off everytime i play it and i dont want to see it all go.

[faralos]

"I'll look into whether they've actually licensed anything or not. Until we know, it's a bit unfair to pass judgment."

yea sorry noah i just joined this little community because of the love of pinball and have come to respect it and all on it and i realise how hard it is and how much time it takes a lot of you guys to make software and tables for everyone to use and lately i see what effect it is starting to have on the table makers and i just hope that one day they dont just say enoughs enough
and give up i was using vp when it first came out and it was quite good, then i didnt bother with it as it didnt seem right playing on a 17inch screen horizontally with a keyboard, and i have seen the commitment and progress made and now it just blows my head off everytime i play it and i dont want to see it all go.

unfortunately this one ain't the first nor will they be the last. I can't say we like it but we have gotten used to these types of people ripping off vp and the tables, but bring it to our sysops attention like you just did and let them go after the baddies! Noah and Steve know the copyrights involved and I'm sure they will look into it. As for the table builders giving up? Nah, little things like this won't stop them, our pin builders are a pretty dedicated bunch of nuts so things like this while being a setback to the vp world sure as heck does not even slow down vp's progress! there will always be someone some where trying to cash in on others peoples hard work and those cabs do indeed look shabby and who knows? maybe a customer or two will find their way here and settle down to build a few pins of their own...it's a mighty fine line...that copyright issue...

[ta2686]

First of all I do agree with all comments that have been posted so far.

To add to that, I think that these people consider the software and tables in the PUBLIC DOMAIN since they are freely available. They feel they can capitalize on that fact to make money for themselves. If they are including the roms, to which the copyrights are still held by the original manufacturers, that is definitely in violation of the law. VP, VPM and Hyperpin, while essentially freeware, I believe can only be distributed by license if included in a product such as what these people are selling. (If I am incorrect in these statements, please let me know)

I can't speak about the tables, I will let others do that. However I agree with what has been said that it is unfair for others to profit on the hard work of the authors who freely distribute their tables.

[DedRok_V]

It clearly states that only the cabinet artwork is licenced.

They at least need to licence the tables and running platforms. Isnt that what the ultra and multi guys had to do.
It maybe freeware, but thats not for commercial use, is it.

Paul said he'd look into it.

Anyway, they are using crappy plasmas for the playfield.

[Noah Fentz]

unfortunately this one ain't the first nor will they be the last. I can't say we like it but we have gotten used to these types of people ripping off vp and the tables, but bring it to our sysops attention like you just did and let them go after the baddies!

Ummm, no 'we' haven't, unless you have a frog in your pocket, please refrain from speaking on behalf of the entire community.

Noah and Steve know the copyrights involved and I'm sure they will look into it.

Who's Steve?

As for the table builders giving up? Nah, little things like this won't stop them, our pin builders are a pretty dedicated bunch of nuts so things like this while being a setback to the vp world sure as heck does not even slow down vp's progress! there will always be someone some where trying to cash in on others peoples hard work and those cabs do indeed look shabby and who knows? maybe a customer or two will find their way here and settle down to build a few pins of their own...it's a mighty fine line...that copyright issue...

See first reply.

------------------------------------

@ta2686 - You are accurate. Every element requires licensing. VP, HP, VPM, ROMs, likenesses, logos ... EVERYTHING.

We've licensed VP from Randy and HP from Bill for use with the VirtuaPin. I don't think VPM can be licensed with its MAME components, and the going rate for WMS/Bally properties for commercial use makes even trying a non-viable product.

I highly doubt this company has licensed anything, but we shall see ...

It clearly states that only the cabinet artwork is licenced.

They at least need to licence the tables and running platforms. Isnt that what the ultra and multi guys had to do.
It maybe freeware, but thats not for commercial use, is it.

Paul said he'd look into it.

Anyway, they are using crappy plasmas for the playfield.

I doubt the art is licensed. I would imagine they are buying licensed decals and applying them, similar to what we offer. Licensing the art itself would also be too costly.

[Dazz]

HyperPin C&D order sent

Dear Sir,

We are the proprietors of software/artistic/media work entitled HyperSpin, HyperPin or EmuMovies.

It has come to our attention that you are illegally selling or re-hosting HyperSpin, HyperPin or EmuMovies media on http://arcadewarehouse.com. Permission was neither asked nor granted to distribute or re-host our software or media and your selling or re-hosting therefore constitutes infringement of Terms of Service. Per our Terms of Service, we are entitled to an injunction against your continued infringement, as well as to recover damages from you for the loss we have suffered as a result of your infringing conduct.

In the circumstances, we demand that you immediately:

1. remove all infringing content and notify us in writing that you have done so;

2. immediately cease the selling and distribution of our software/media material;

3. undertake in writing to desist from using any of our software or media in future without prior written authority from us.

We await to hear from you by no later than close of business on 7/15/2011.

This is written without prejudice to our rights, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.

Yours faithfully,

HyperSpin Legal Foundation

Edited by Dazz, 05 July 2011 - 04:57 AM.

[Flying Dutchman]

It certainly takes away my pleasure of creating UVP's / Backglasses .. for all what it is worth.

Cheers,
FD.

[DedRok_V]

I doubt the art is licensed. I would imagine they are buying licensed decals and applying them, similar to what we offer. Licensing the art itself would also be too costly.

Thats what I meant by the artwork is licenced, same as using licenced williams bally parts.

[ynneBBenny]

I dont understand the issue. The guys are selling a pinball cabinet that does not have the software installed.
Whats with all the villagers with pitchfoks and shovels?

[gStAv]

Don't know if the've change their picture on their website and in the ebay ad, but it's clearly stated in the bottom of it:

Picture are for illustration only no software loaded

*No Tables Included* *not intended for commerical use*

[wildman]

I dont understand the issue. The guys are selling a pinball cabinet that does not have the software installed.
Whats with all the villagers with pitchfoks and shovels?

thats because he has just changed his ads.......cause he has been warned by the higher powers

[maxfx4u]

Yup...Clearly states, **No software Included**Not intended for commercial use**

[ynneBBenny]

I dont understand the issue. The guys are selling a pinball cabinet that does not have the software installed.
Whats with all the villagers with pitchfoks and shovels?

thats because he has just changed his ads.......cause he has been warned by the higher powers

So what has now changed? He is selling a cabinet without the software installed vs selling a cabinet with the software installed.
And this quietens down the crowd?

Whats the difference between a person building thier own cabinet and installing the software, vs a person who buys a table and installs the same software.
The difference is time and money. The buyer saves time by buying a ready made cabinet, the cabinet builder makes a profit by supplying a cabinet, and the VP table developers get a good feeling that people are using their tables.


Two brands of car. One come with a full tank of fuel and the other doesnt. They are both cars, and even though one will have to immediately fill up. They will both give great service to thier owners.
You cannot argue that because one came with fuel that it influenced the buyer in any great way.

Edited by WWW, 05 July 2011 - 11:40 AM.

[killamrjack]

well its a poor show when you only trying to make a cabinet which is not an easy task.Most people wish they could have bought one ready to rock instead of building it over many months.And nobody is selling them here in the uk so whats the problem? just providing a service for us uk pinball guys.

I dont understand the issue. The guys are selling a pinball cabinet that does not have the software installed.
Whats with all the villagers with pitchfoks and shovels?

thats because he has just changed his ads.......cause he has been warned by the higher powers

So what has now changed? He is selling a cabinet without the software installed vs selling a cabinet with the software installed.
And this quietens down the crowd?

Whats the difference between a person building thier own cabinet and installing the software, vs a person who buys a table and installs the same software.
The difference is time and money. The buyer saves time by buying a ready made cabinet, the cabinet builder makes a profit by supplying a cabinet, and the VP table developers get a good feeling that people are using their tables.


Two brands of car. One come with a full tank of fuel and the other doesnt. They are both cars, and even though one will have to immediately fill up. They will both give great service to thier owners.
You cannot argue that because one came with fuel that it influenced the buyer in any great way.

well said don't know what the fuss is about who said there where any tables included?

[faralos]

I dont understand the issue. The guys are selling a pinball cabinet that does not have the software installed.
Whats with all the villagers with pitchfoks and shovels?

thats because he has just changed his ads.......cause he has been warned by the higher powers

So what has now changed? He is selling a cabinet without the software installed vs selling a cabinet with the software installed.
And this quietens down the crowd?

Whats the difference between a person building thier own cabinet and installing the software, vs a person who buys a table and installs the same software.
The difference is time and money. The buyer saves time by buying a ready made cabinet, the cabinet builder makes a profit by supplying a cabinet, and the VP table developers get a good feeling that people are using their tables.


Two brands of car. One come with a full tank of fuel and the other doesnt. They are both cars, and even though one will have to immediately fill up. They will both give great service to thier owners.
You cannot argue that because one came with fuel that it influenced the buyer in any great way.

okay think of it this way you are Henry Ford, you just made a new car now some one else just sold it out from under you without your knowledge or permission and refuses to let you get any profits from that sale. and not only does he sell it without your knowledge or consent but he also will not give you the credit of even building it. But he will 'fill the tank' for you by having possibly hundreds of tables all gotten legally since they are public domain but are being SOLD which is the big no no, mainly since the materials used to make the pins are also copyrighted I use hundreds of images and sound clips all taken off the web (in some cases they too are copyrighted and I am pirating them too for my own use). were any of these pins to be sold I think the original owners of the copyrighted materials also may sue don't quote me here this is just my personal opinion
but if you made something which may have taken many months wouldn't you also like at least to get the credit for the table build?

[Rawd]

I dont understand the issue. The guys are selling a pinball cabinet that does not have the software installed.
Whats with all the villagers with pitchfoks and shovels?

thats because he has just changed his ads.......cause he has been warned by the higher powers

So what has now changed? He is selling a cabinet without the software installed vs selling a cabinet with the software installed.
And this quietens down the crowd?

Whats the difference between a person building thier own cabinet and installing the software, vs a person who buys a table and installs the same software.
The difference is time and money. The buyer saves time by buying a ready made cabinet, the cabinet builder makes a profit by supplying a cabinet, and the VP table developers get a good feeling that people are using their tables.


Two brands of car. One come with a full tank of fuel and the other doesnt. They are both cars, and even though one will have to immediately fill up. They will both give great service to thier owners.
You cannot argue that because one came with fuel that it influenced the buyer in any great way.

It makes all the difference in the world if it is sold with software. The car analogy is wrong.

More like a computer company selling Windows on their PC's without paying the license.