165 replies to this topic

[grendelrt]

Hey Mjr, I have a weird issue. It seems pinvol is startup crashing all my Sam build tables If i close down pinvol the table loads fine (ACDC for example), if I enable it crashes on startup.  I was able to get the table up and running with at91jit set to 0 when Pinvol is running, but I know you arent supposed to set that to 0 for some tables that rely on tight timings.  

 

Edit: So this is fascinating, if I disable any on screen display stuff in pinvol, like the volume bar and  show when switching to new table or application  option, the tables now load with At91jit = 1, so it seems to be a conflict between those settings and vpinmame with at91jit on my system at least. Figured I would post it up in case it helps someone else, I will just leave those off

Edited by grendelrt, 14 August 2018 - 01:38 PM.

[Thalamus]

Does the same happen if you open the editor - load the table manually ? Instead of just double clicking the vpx file ?

[mjr]

Hey Mjr, I have a weird issue. It seems pinvol is startup crashing all my Sam build tables If i close down pinvol the table loads fine (ACDC for example), if I enable it crashes on startup.  I was able to get the table up and running with at91jit set to 0 when Pinvol is running, but I know you arent supposed to set that to 0 for some tables that rely on tight timings.  

 

Edit: So this is fascinating, if I disable any on screen display stuff in pinvol, like the volume bar, the tables now load with At91jit = 1, so it seems to be a conflict between those settings and vpinmame with at91jit on my system at least. Figured I would post it up in case it helps someone else, I will just leave those off

 

That is in fact pretty bizarre.  I suspect a bug in the VPinMAME ARM JIT code.  And I can't get away with pointing the finger of blame here even if this turns out to be true, since I wrote that code.   I'll see if I can reproduce it; if so, there's some hope that I can figure out what's going on and I'll try to get to the bottom of it.  I'm glad you at least have a workaround in the meantime or in case I'm unable to reproduce it.

[grendelrt]

Does the same happen if you open the editor - load the table manually ? Instead of just double clicking the vpx file ?

Yeah thats how I typically load them. I tried manual and through pinup. 

 

 

Hey Mjr, I have a weird issue. It seems pinvol is startup crashing all my Sam build tables If i close down pinvol the table loads fine (ACDC for example), if I enable it crashes on startup.  I was able to get the table up and running with at91jit set to 0 when Pinvol is running, but I know you arent supposed to set that to 0 for some tables that rely on tight timings.  

 

Edit: So this is fascinating, if I disable any on screen display stuff in pinvol, like the volume bar, the tables now load with At91jit = 1, so it seems to be a conflict between those settings and vpinmame with at91jit on my system at least. Figured I would post it up in case it helps someone else, I will just leave those off

 

That is in fact pretty bizarre.  I suspect a bug in the VPinMAME ARM JIT code.  And I can't get away with pointing the finger of blame here even if this turns out to be true, since I wrote that code.   I'll see if I can reproduce it; if so, there's some hope that I can figure out what's going on and I'll try to get to the bottom of it.  I'm glad you at least have a workaround in the meantime or in case I'm unable to reproduce it.

 

Let me know if you want me to send you any logs or anything =)

[boslaw]

 

The application is definitely in the foreground (I have to mouse into the field to map a button). I'm pretty sure I was unable to map the joystick button, even while pressing a modifier key though. I'll test again tonight to confirm. 

 

Oh, that might be important.  If you can't map a joystick button at all, the problem is probably that DirectInput isn't recognizing the joystick device.  Try mapping a single unmodified keyboard key just to make sure that it's not something weird with the modifiers - e.g., bring up the "press a key" dialog and press F1 or some other random key.  If that works and maps the plain key, but the joystick still isn't working, it's probably something going on with DI device recognition.

One easy test that might be helpful diagnosing that is to see if you can get Visual Pinball to recognize the same joystick buttons, since it uses DI as its input layer as well.

 

Ok, I tested mapping a random key from my keyboard and that worked but still can't map the joystick button. I didn't see your latest post when I tested so I will try mapping the joystick button in VP tomorrow.

 

Happy to provide logs or anything else that might be useful

[grendelrt]

 

Hey Mjr, I have a weird issue. It seems pinvol is startup crashing all my Sam build tables If i close down pinvol the table loads fine (ACDC for example), if I enable it crashes on startup.  I was able to get the table up and running with at91jit set to 0 when Pinvol is running, but I know you arent supposed to set that to 0 for some tables that rely on tight timings.  

 

Edit: So this is fascinating, if I disable any on screen display stuff in pinvol, like the volume bar, the tables now load with At91jit = 1, so it seems to be a conflict between those settings and vpinmame with at91jit on my system at least. Figured I would post it up in case it helps someone else, I will just leave those off

 

That is in fact pretty bizarre.  I suspect a bug in the VPinMAME ARM JIT code.  And I can't get away with pointing the finger of blame here even if this turns out to be true, since I wrote that code.   I'll see if I can reproduce it; if so, there's some hope that I can figure out what's going on and I'll try to get to the bottom of it.  I'm glad you at least have a workaround in the meantime or in case I'm unable to reproduce it.

 

I was updating some sam table scripts and wanted to see if the issue still persisted, I realized I unchecked two things last night, so I tried each individually. It depends on the table, some allow the volume bar to be enabled some dont. Avatar for example wont load with volume bar, but LOTR will. If I have both options at the bottom, including   "show when switching to new table or application" option disabled (this one crashes LOTR), all seem to work. 

Edited by grendelrt, 14 August 2018 - 01:56 PM.

[Thalamus]

@mjr : If/when you look into the crashes on loading. Please know that it is actually a huge difference in crashes between manual load and double clicking just the table file name.

[mjr]

@mjr : If/when you look into the crashes on loading. Please know that it is actually a huge difference in crashes between manual load and double clicking just the table file name.

 

Okay, I'll keep that in mind.  Of the two, which is crashier for you?

 

And just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, what exactly does "crash" mean in this context?

[Thalamus]

I don't run exclusive fullscreen on a daily basis so I can't really tell. I have however experienced almost 100% crashes on double clicking a vpx table. Last it was any of the Transformers recently release by JP. It can best be described to that once it starts to crash and it is almost always a SAM table. It will work if I open it "manually". After that it CAN - but to no certainty start to behave if I try again just after that by double clicking. It isn't really something I can reproduce. Sometime it goes away just loading another table in the mean time. Front-ends don't have this problem since they load the table via parameter. And, well - they exit the editor each time they are finished. And. No. It doesn't happen because I run table after table without exiting the editor.

I should add. I use your PinVol and I will rate it as a need to have add-on to the cab. Very much appreciated you making this for us !

Edited by Thalamus, 14 August 2018 - 07:10 PM.

[mjr]

I don't run exclusive fullscreen on a daily basis so I can't really tell. I have however experienced almost 100% crashes on double clicking a vpx table. 

 

Thanks.  You mean just double-clicking the .vpx file in Windows Explorer to launch the game in play mode, right?

 

And crashing here means that you get the Windows dialog saying "Visual Pinball has stopped working and must be closed"?  Or something else?

[Thalamus]

Correct. double-click the *.vpx to launch can be a problem. I'm on Win7 and maybe I've disabled that feedback feature. For me it just dies and makes a crash.dmp. I've provided that on several occasions to Toxie and I think also DjRobX have tried to figure it out. Toxie - more than once, poor guy.

 

https://www.vpforums...=39428&p=409675

 

Turning of at91jit and the problem goes almost away. But, there is a reason why the code is there. I know I can't teach you what it is

 

But, this link contains what has been said about it and the solution. It is kind of a non solution.

If you're machine is fast enough then you have a slight chance that it doesn't happen as often.

 

https://vpinball.com...-onoff-at91jit/

 

You see DjRobX giving a warning for some tables in the end - it needs to be enabled.

Edited by Thalamus, 14 August 2018 - 09:26 PM.

[boslaw]

 

 

The application is definitely in the foreground (I have to mouse into the field to map a button). I'm pretty sure I was unable to map the joystick button, even while pressing a modifier key though. I'll test again tonight to confirm. 

 

Oh, that might be important.  If you can't map a joystick button at all, the problem is probably that DirectInput isn't recognizing the joystick device.  Try mapping a single unmodified keyboard key just to make sure that it's not something weird with the modifiers - e.g., bring up the "press a key" dialog and press F1 or some other random key.  If that works and maps the plain key, but the joystick still isn't working, it's probably something going on with DI device recognition.

One easy test that might be helpful diagnosing that is to see if you can get Visual Pinball to recognize the same joystick buttons, since it uses DI as its input layer as well.

 

Ok, I tested mapping a random key from my keyboard and that worked but still can't map the joystick button. I didn't see your latest post when I tested so I will try mapping the joystick button in VP tomorrow.

 

Happy to provide logs or anything else that might be useful

 

I did test mapping the joystick button in VP and it wouldn't work there either. I emailed Zeb for advice.

[mjr]

I did test mapping the joystick button in VP and it wouldn't work there either. I emailed Zeb for advice.

 

Great, hopefully he can sort it out.  There must be something going on with DirectInput recognition if neither program is seeing it.

 

If it's of any help, I think DI will only recognize a device as a joystick if it provides at least one of the X-Y-Z axes, so if you have the plunger and accelerometer inputs disabled or configured on other axes, that could conceivably be the issue.

[grendelrt]

I am still having crash issues when PinVol is up and starting a SAM table (VPX 10.5 has encountered an error and needs to close). If I try it crashes, if I close pinvol and try again it starts fine or if I disable At91jit with pinvol up it will load. Not sure why it seems to come and go, I though removing those 2 options had fixed it, but doesn't seem to work anymore. 

 

I am currently just killing PinVol before VPX starts and restarting Pinvol like 25 secs later inside the launch script, no crashes using this method so far. 

 

Also, side question, is it possible to add other entries such as FX3 and Pinup to pinvol so it recognizes it as a program?

Edited by grendelrt, 17 August 2018 - 08:48 PM.

[mjr]

I am still having crash issues when PinVol is up and starting a SAM table (VPX 10.5 has encountered an error and needs to close). If I try it crashes, if I close pinvol and try again it starts fine or if I disable At91jit with pinvol up it will load. Not sure why it seems to come and go, I though removing those 2 options had fixed it, but doesn't seem to work anymore. 

 

I am currently just killing PinVol before VPX starts and restarting Pinvol like 25 secs later inside the launch script, no crashes using this method so far.

 

I haven't had a chance to look at that yet.  This might be the same thing as the long-standing mystery crash that seems to be in the VPinMAME AT91 JIT.  The reason that's been such a mystery is that I've never been able to reproduce it on my machine, which has made it more or less impossible to investigate properly.  I'm hoping this is the same thing because if it is, you might have found a way that I can trigger it on my machine, in which case there's some hope that I'll be able to finally track it down.  But it might take a chunk of time to investigate, so you might have to stick with your workaround for a while until I can get to it.  The change in behavior of your past workarounds is probably because the mysterious underlying bug seems to have some subtle configuration dependency, so the change might have been due to something seemingly unrelated, like updating some *other* software in your system.  If you're lucky, the next thing you update will make the problem mysteriously disappear entirely.

 

 

Also, side question, is it possible to add other entries such as FX3 and Pinup to pinvol so it recognizes it as a program?

 

Yeah, I can add just about any other task as a recognized type.  I just need some way to recognize the task.  For VP, the recognition is by window title.  If you want to do a little digging on your system, see if you can come up with window title patterns that reliably identify FX3 and/or Pinup.  Tell me what you come up with and I can add them.  FX3 has multiple games it plays, right?  It would probably be ideal if individual games were recognizable, since that way PinVol could keep separate volume levels per game the way it does with VP.

Edited by mjr, 17 August 2018 - 09:17 PM.

[grendelrt]

 

I am still having crash issues when PinVol is up and starting a SAM table (VPX 10.5 has encountered an error and needs to close). If I try it crashes, if I close pinvol and try again it starts fine or if I disable At91jit with pinvol up it will load. Not sure why it seems to come and go, I though removing those 2 options had fixed it, but doesn't seem to work anymore. 

 

I am currently just killing PinVol before VPX starts and restarting Pinvol like 25 secs later inside the launch script, no crashes using this method so far.

 

I haven't had a chance to look at that yet.  This might be the same thing as the long-standing mystery crash that seems to be in the VPinMAME AT91 JIT.  The reason that's been such a mystery is that I've never been able to reproduce it on my machine, which has made it more or less impossible to investigate properly.  I'm hoping this is the same thing because if it is, you might have found a way that I can trigger it on my machine, in which case there's some hope that I'll be able to finally track it down.  But it might take a chunk of time to investigate, so you might have to stick with your workaround for a while until I can get to it.  The change in behavior of your past workarounds is probably because the mysterious underlying bug seems to have some subtle configuration dependency, so the change might have been due to something seemingly unrelated, like updating some *other* software in your system.  If you're lucky, the next thing you update will make the problem mysteriously disappear entirely.

 

 

Also, side question, is it possible to add other entries such as FX3 and Pinup to pinvol so it recognizes it as a program?

 

Yeah, I can add just about any other task as a recognized type.  I just need some way to recognize the task.  For VP, the recognition is by window title.  If you want to do a little digging on your system, see if you can come up with window title patterns that reliably identify FX3 and/or Pinup.  Tell me what you come up with and I can add them.  FX3 has multiple games it plays, right?  It would probably be ideal if individual games were recognizable, since that way PinVol could keep separate volume levels per game the way it does with VP.

 

No worries man, I figured I would keep feeding you info to help try to find the issue. Are there any logs I could send you from VPX that might help you out? I am also on a Windows 7 64bit system if that helps, since I read there have been less issues in Windows 10 with AT91Jit. 

 

I will see if I can get the windows titles, if anything just a generic one for Fx3 might be enough, most of those tables have similar levels since they are built by the same company. 

[grendelrt]

 

 

Also, side question, is it possible to add other entries such as FX3 and Pinup to pinvol so it recognizes it as a program?

 

Yeah, I can add just about any other task as a recognized type.  I just need some way to recognize the task.  For VP, the recognition is by window title.  If you want to do a little digging on your system, see if you can come up with window title patterns that reliably identify FX3 and/or Pinup.  Tell me what you come up with and I can add them.  FX3 has multiple games it plays, right?  It would probably be ideal if individual games were recognizable, since that way PinVol could keep separate volume levels per game the way it does with VP.

 

Hey Mjr, I tried to get the window tiles for FX3 and Pinup. I used an autohotkey script to pull them. 

 

I checked first against VPX to make sure it was working correctly and it matched the naming convention in the ini. I got back:

VPinballX.exe Visual Pinball - [The Machine - Bride Of Pinbot (Williams 1991)2.1]

Which everything inside the  [ ] is what is in the Ini file for that table.

 

For Pinup I got back, 

PinUpMenu.exe PinUP Menu Player

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPOVERLAY2

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPSCREEN3

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPSCREEN2

PinUpDisplay.exe

 

I think just having PinUP Menu Player would be enough since thats the main menu exe.

 

For Fx3 the title didnt change once a game is loaded, but I think that would be ok since most of those tables are pretty close in sound volume. 

Pinball FX3.exe Pinball FX3

So just Pinball FX3.

 

If you want to send me an updated file I will test them and see if they are valid. 

[mjr]

Hey Mjr, I tried to get the window tiles for FX3 and Pinup. I used an autohotkey script to pull them. 

 

I checked first against VPX to make sure it was working correctly and it matched the naming convention in the ini. I got back:

VPinballX.exe Visual Pinball - [The Machine - Bride Of Pinbot (Williams 1991)2.1]

Which everything inside the  [ ] is what is in the Ini file for that table.

 

For Pinup I got back, 

PinUpMenu.exe PinUP Menu Player

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPOVERLAY2

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPSCREEN3

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPSCREEN2

PinUpDisplay.exe

 

I think just having PinUP Menu Player would be enough since thats the main menu exe.

 

For Fx3 the title didnt change once a game is loaded, but I think that would be ok since most of those tables are pretty close in sound volume. 

Pinball FX3.exe Pinball FX3

So just Pinball FX3.

 

If you want to send me an updated file I will test them and see if they are valid. 

 

 

Thanks for doing the spelunking work!  I built a test version with those additions for you:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...ol-20180820.zip

[grendelrt]

 

Hey Mjr, I tried to get the window tiles for FX3 and Pinup. I used an autohotkey script to pull them. 

 

I checked first against VPX to make sure it was working correctly and it matched the naming convention in the ini. I got back:

VPinballX.exe Visual Pinball - [The Machine - Bride Of Pinbot (Williams 1991)2.1]

Which everything inside the  [ ] is what is in the Ini file for that table.

 

For Pinup I got back, 

PinUpMenu.exe PinUP Menu Player

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPOVERLAY2

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPSCREEN3

PinUpDisplay.exe PUPSCREEN2

PinUpDisplay.exe

 

I think just having PinUP Menu Player would be enough since thats the main menu exe.

 

For Fx3 the title didnt change once a game is loaded, but I think that would be ok since most of those tables are pretty close in sound volume. 

Pinball FX3.exe Pinball FX3

So just Pinball FX3.

 

If you want to send me an updated file I will test them and see if they are valid. 

 

 

Thanks for doing the spelunking work!  I built a test version with those additions for you:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pi...ol-20180820.zip

 

That looks to be working for me! It transitioned correctly from Pinup to Fx3 as well which I wasn't sure if it would since pinup runs stuff in the background. Thanks MJR!!

[mjr]

That looks to be working for me! It transitioned correctly from Pinup to Fx3 as well which I wasn't sure if it would since pinup runs stuff in the background. Thanks MJR!!

 

Great!  I'll post that as an actual update then.  

 

(Background operation for PUP shouldn't be a problem as long as the FX3 window is activated normally.  PinVol keys everything to the foreground window, which seems to be a pretty reliable rule for all of the pinball software so far.  It wouldn't surprise me if something comes along someday and breaks that assumption, with all of the weird things Windows apps can do, but this particular rule is pretty hard to violate because Windows itself bases so much behavior on window activation.  Any app that tries to do most of its interaction with a non-foreground non-activated window is going to have to jump through so many Windows API hoops that even the most bloody-minded developers tend to acquiesce and do it the "right" way.)