132 replies to this topic

[TerryRed]

I continue to struggle with ball stutter. Trying lots of things I've read online but I can't figure it out. Lots of horse power here, i5, 8GB RAM, GeForce 960 with 2GB RAM running on an SSD. Everything was running fine for the better part of a year and then windows update in Windows 7 started chewing resources up, I got that all sorted but couldn't fix the stuttering and lag so I blew my install away and installed Windows 10 and the lag is still there... Crazy part is the games often play fine for the first couple of minutes and then the chugging starts. I've stripped this thing down as bare bones as I can, running latest VPX and later VPinMAME and one table, a VPX version of AFM. I even unplugged my Pinscape tonight and was just using the keyboard. I'll sit down again with it and step through these directions again tomorrow... I think I just wanted to vent somewhere

 

We've chatted before about this, and we were both having the same problem. Since we both have similar specs, and same video card....i'm glad to say that I got rid of my VPX stutter by using the latest VP10.2 and exclusive fullscreen.

 

Read the other DryBonz link about True Fullscreen in VPX, and setting ddraw=0 for fullscreen VPX tables,etc...

 

-I make sure that I have vsync settings in nvidia control panel set to "app controlled", and VPX fps limiter set to "1" (vsync enabled), as well as the tables themselves being set the same. This was "important" to have these settings for vsync! (Like any other PC game in full screen) I also have all of my B2S backglasses set to EXE.

 

-all ambient occlusion disabled. It wasn't killing fps, but I was starting to see weird shadows, and other artifacts.

 

Doing the above has eliminated ALL of my stuttering so far for VPX  and it's running like a PC game should.

 

Alot of my B2S backglasses are showing up fine with or without the delay fix (VPX 10.2's or the "bring to top.exe").  However, there are some tables that will not have ANY B2S backglass show up with the combination of full screen enabled, and being launched from Pinball X. Launching from VPX itself works every time. Changing to a different B2S doesn't have any affect with PBX.

 

Any ideas why some of those B2S files won't load up when launched specifically in fullscreen with PBX?

 

Great guide btw.... glad to see other PC Gamers on here that understand video settings in their sleep.

Edited by TerryRed, 15 August 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[viktory2k1]

OK, got it, it seems to play very smooth but I have no music sound and that damn DMD issue with a few vpx tables, it just won't stay put. I wonder if I have to do something in the regeretry, all others go exactly where they should, MM VPX and DM VPX have DMD issues and DM has no music, it is set to 100. Are we looking for FPS or just how we think it plays? I can say that I am horrible at that game though.LOL

That was a great post TerryRed! I learned some on that, which is why I am on here.

[TerryRed]

To follow up....  I now have normal ambient occlusion enabled, but still keep the "update in game ambient occlusion" disabled, as that was what was causing odd shadows and artifacts. 

 

I also now have brute force X4 anti-aliasing enabled.   Everything runs silky smooth, no stutters.   This is with full DOF enabled, B2S backglass enabled,etc...

 

My PC for the cabinet is an i5 2500K, 8 gigs ram, nvidia gtx 960 2GB, SSD, Win 10.

 

 

Now if I can only figure out why half my B2S's won't load up when launched from PBX....

[Drybonz]

Hey wrd, that is a good idea.  I would recommend Demolition Man as a very demanding table with which to benchmark (Incredibly beautiful and nicely made table by Knorr and Kiwi but pretty demanding on resources).  I'm sure there are a bunch we could come up with... that's just the one that comes to mind, to me, that if I can run it at full speed, no stutter, I can run anything else... it's also in the downloads section here at VPF, so easy for everyone to acquire.

 

After thinking about it, I probably should have added that I can't run Demolition Man with optimal performance without running the backglass in .exe mode (for information about this, as well as running full screen and fixing problems with crashing in true full screen, follow the link in the true fullscreen section in the original post.  All questions are answered there).

 

If you want a benchmark solely with backglass in standard mode, I think Kingpin is a good table for that.  I'm sure there are a bunch of others too.  I can get Kingpin running without stutter with standard mode backglass if I follow the tips in the tutorial though.

[viktory2k1]

OK, Kingpin it is. I'll try that table.

[wrd1972]

BTW, there are at least two backglasses for DM. One causes huge table stutter. The other does not. Cant recall which is the good one. Might look into it.

[Drybonz]

BTW, there are at least two backglasses for DM. One causes huge table stutter. The other does not. Cant recall which is the good one. Might look into it.

 

I had tried both, and found that one was better, but that I still needed every trick in the book to get rid of the stutter.

[roar]

 

I continue to struggle with ball stutter. Trying lots of things I've read online but I can't figure it out. Lots of horse power here, i5, 8GB RAM, GeForce 960 with 2GB RAM running on an SSD. Everything was running fine for the better part of a year and then windows update in Windows 7 started chewing resources up, I got that all sorted but couldn't fix the stuttering and lag so I blew my install away and installed Windows 10 and the lag is still there... Crazy part is the games often play fine for the first couple of minutes and then the chugging starts. I've stripped this thing down as bare bones as I can, running latest VPX and later VPinMAME and one table, a VPX version of AFM. I even unplugged my Pinscape tonight and was just using the keyboard. I'll sit down again with it and step through these directions again tomorrow... I think I just wanted to vent somewhere

 

We've chatted before about this, and we were both having the same problem. Since we both have similar specs, and same video card....i'm glad to say that I got rid of my VPX stutter by using the latest VP10.2 and exclusive fullscreen.

 

Read the other DryBonz link about True Fullscreen in VPX, and setting ddraw=0 for fullscreen VPX tables,etc...

 

-I make sure that I have vsync settings in nvidia control panel set to "app controlled", and VPX fps limiter set to "1" (vsync enabled), as well as the tables themselves being set the same. This was "important" to have these settings for vsync! (Like any other PC game in full screen) I also have all of my B2S backglasses set to EXE.

 

-all ambient occlusion disabled. It wasn't killing fps, but I was starting to see weird shadows, and other artifacts.

 

Doing the above has eliminated ALL of my stuttering so far for VPX  and it's running like a PC game should.

 

Alot of my B2S backglasses are showing up fine with or without the delay fix (VPX 10.2's or the "bring to top.exe").  However, there are some tables that will not have ANY B2S backglass show up with the combination of full screen enabled, and being launched from Pinball X. Launching from VPX itself works every time. Changing to a different B2S doesn't have any affect with PBX.

 

Any ideas why some of those B2S files won't load up when launched specifically in fullscreen with PBX?

 

Great guide btw.... glad to see other PC Gamers on here that understand video settings in their sleep.

 

 

Thanks Terry... will give this a go tonight I hope!

[Kernel]

Is there any performace difference between Windows 7 (aero glass off) and Windows 10?

[Drybonz]

Is there any performace difference between Windows 7 (aero glass off) and Windows 10?

 

Hey kernel... you will probably get different answers to that question, but I haven't read anything definitive that would make me believe there is a significant difference based only on those OS.  There could be other factors such as Win 10 has better drivers for your particular video card that could make a difference (that's a made-up example) but I think it would take some individual testing on your part.

 

If you are thinking about changing OS just for the purpose of getting a speed boost in VPX, I don't think it's worth it... although there could be other good reasons for changing.

Edited by Drybonz, 01 September 2016 - 02:29 PM.

[Kernel]

Thanks for the answer. I'm asking because I have to change my video card from my 3 monitors setup and I have to redo some configurations expecially for the DMD monitor [I have to reconfigure the custom res (i've always used ddraw 0 to have a pixel perfect DMD)].

Now I use an ati 6670 1gb and the on board videocard, but with VPX (as I was expecting) I have performance issues so I've already bought a nvidia 750ti 2gb that I will use to hook all 3 monitors..

Considering that I'll have to work a bit, I was wondering if it was also the case to upgrade the operating system.

You saved me some time.

[MrKnister]

also have say, that this is a really great post you did Drybonz thx for the awesome "sum up" you did!!

 

after experience different stutterings i might add my 2cents here for others as maybe another trick to try.

my machine has pretty decent specs besides the cpu:

 

- amd phenom x6 1055t

- nvidia geforce gtx 970

- 16 gigs of ram

- a fast ssd

 

i never thought that i should experience any kind of stutter when i moved from my gaming

rig (with an intel i7) where i tested vpx to my cab with theses specs. but i was proven wrong.

the stutter was there .. more like a "micro stutter" notably most when the ball came to the

right flipper finger ... but it was everytime and therefore very anoying (you know when you

try to aim and shoot and just a micro second before there is a small stutter ... aaaargh .. ). 

 

long story short. after countless hours of testing i found out, that whaterver i did the b2s

server was the once that added the stuttering.

 

to circumvent this i did assign the b2s server fixed to two cores. BUT i found out also, that

ONLY setting the fixed to core 5&6 did remove the stuttering. assigning them to core 1&2 or

3&4 did not improve anything. so maybe its that youll have to assign them to the highest cores

youll have for your cpu.

 

maybe its because of the amd cpu dont know ... but i wont keep this to myself since you all

do such an amazing job here with vpx. from the devs to the table creators to the community!

 

cheers.

Edited by MrKnister, 10 September 2016 - 06:43 PM.

[Kernel]

MrKnister thanks for the tip. You have to do this every time or it's a permanent setting?

[roar]

I've walked through this guide a number of times... I "think" I have everything as dumbed down as possible and I'm still getting serious ball stutter. It is driving me rather crazy and I'm not sure how else to simplify this, any thoughts or other info I can provide would appreciate it.

 

My Nvida settings:

GeForce Game Ready Driver

Version 372.70 Release date: 08/29/2016

Intel® Core™ i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz

7.95 GB RAM

Manage 3D settings > Program Settings

 

c:\visual pinball\vpinballx.exe

VPX_2_beta_rev2790

 

Ambient Occlusion - Not supported for this applicatiopn

Anisotropic filtering - Application-controlled

Antialiasing - FXAA - On

Antialiasing - Gamme correction - On

Antialiasing - Mode - Application-controlled

Antialiasing - Setting - Use global setting (Application-controlled)

Antialiasing - Transparency - 4x (supersample)

CUDA - GPU's - Use global setting (All)

Maximum pre-rendered frames - Use the 3D application setting

Multi-Frame Sampled AA (MFAA) - On

Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration Multi display performance mode

Power management mode - Prefer maximum performance

Shader Cache - On

Texture filter - Anisotropic sample option - On

Texture filter - Negative LOD boas - Allow

Texture filter - Quality - Use global setting (Quality)

Texture filter - Trilinear optimization - Use global setting (Off)

Threaded optimization - Use global setting (Auto)

Triple buffering - Use global setting (Off)

Vertical sync - Use the 3D application setting

Virtual Reality pre-rendered frames - Use the 3D application setting

 

Screen shot of my VPX Video Preferences:

 

Screen shot of my AFM Table Settings:

[Drybonz]

Change max texture dimension to unlimited (keep it there).  Have you applied any of the suggested backglass tricks?  What video card are you running?

[TerryRed]

 

I've walked through this guide a number of times... I "think" I have everything as dumbed down as possible and I'm still getting serious ball stutter. It is driving me rather crazy and I'm not sure how else to simplify this, any thoughts or other info I can provide would appreciate it.

 

My Nvida settings:

GeForce Game Ready Driver

Version 372.70 Release date: 08/29/2016

Intel® Core™ i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz

7.95 GB RAM

Manage 3D settings > Program Settings

 

c:\visual pinball\vpinballx.exe

VPX_2_beta_rev2790

 

Ambient Occlusion - Not supported for this applicatiopn

Anisotropic filtering - Application-controlled

Antialiasing - FXAA - On

Antialiasing - Gamme correction - On

Antialiasing - Mode - Application-controlled

Antialiasing - Setting - Use global setting (Application-controlled)

Antialiasing - Transparency - 4x (supersample)

CUDA - GPU's - Use global setting (All)

Maximum pre-rendered frames - Use the 3D application setting

Multi-Frame Sampled AA (MFAA) - On

Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration Multi display performance mode

Power management mode - Prefer maximum performance

Shader Cache - On

Texture filter - Anisotropic sample option - On

Texture filter - Negative LOD boas - Allow

Texture filter - Quality - Use global setting (Quality)

Texture filter - Trilinear optimization - Use global setting (Off)

Threaded optimization - Use global setting (Auto)

Triple buffering - Use global setting (Off)

Vertical sync - Use the 3D application setting

Virtual Reality pre-rendered frames - Use the 3D application setting

 

Screen shot of my VPX Video Preferences:

 

Screen shot of my AFM Table Settings:

 

 

I'm here to help you bud.....just give me a few mins to get my settings for ya....

[gtxjoe]

roar - what video card are you using?

[Drybonz]

I see in an earlier post you have an nvidia 960... your specs should be no problem to eliminate stutter.

 

Take the 60 out of your vsync and make it 1.   Follow instructions in the linked (in the first post) thread "true fullscreen" to set your backglass to .exe and other backglass tips.

[TerryRed]

Just so that others reading will know, I have an i5 2500K, 8 gigs ram, gtx960 2 GIG, Windows 10.

 

Similar, even slower than roars, and VPX runs buttery smooth in exclusive fullscreen with B2S, DOF and loads of toys running!

 

 

Nvidia Control Panel Settings for VPX (not VP9, PM5):

 

First things first... your nvidia 3D gaming settings for VPX (not the global settings!).  

 

I noticed you have MFAA enabled, and other some settings set to ON. Bad..bad..bad.

 

First rule of PC Gaming.....ALWAYS leave the nvidia control panel 3D game settings at DEFAULT for your game, and make sure it runs nicely first, and only change anything if you have to! I live by this rule, and I've had multiple SLI, multi-screen and single card systems and i also game in 4K, and this will save you alot of head-aches!  When things are working nicely, then "maybe" try some AA settings or vsync settings.  

 

For some older games, yes you may have to change some things, but not in the case of VPX.

 

In the case of VPX in the nvidia control panel, my settings are all at the default, but I do have my VSYNC set to "application controlled".  Try setting yours the same. Here's what I could fit in a pic.

 

 

 

 

OK here is my VPX settings:

 

 

 

You'll notice that I have pretty much every setting maxed out for the most part in VPX. The only thing I disabled was the Ambient Occlusion (in-game) because it would leave some odd shadow effects at times, and looked worse instead of better.

 

The big thing I noticed right away for you roar, is that you have FPS set to 60 and max pre-rendered set to 0. This worked well enough (mostly) for VP9 and PM5, but it will NOT work well with VPX in exclusive full screen!

 

You want to have FPS set to 1 (vsync enabled), and pre-rendered set to 1.

 

Try having everything match to my VPX settings. Adjust your "bring VP back into focus" to your liking...

 

That "should" get you going nice. If you still have issues, disable all anti-aliasing, and if still....try ambient occlusion...but you should not have to do that.

 

Important: If still having an issue, make sure that your "User Customization" options for each table is set to the same as the main settings (manually), as I thought I saw that there was a bug that these options would sometimes not work when set to "default". This should be the last thing you should have to try.

 

Both of these bits of settings and nvidia settings are important to have set right in order to work together nicely.

 

 

....and make sure your backglasses are definetly set to EXE. Make sure of that in the xml for B2S settings as well for the table you have problems with.

 

Good Luck!

Edited by TerryRed, 14 September 2016 - 03:24 AM.

[roar]

Thanks guys... I'll plug all of Terry's settings in... I'm running out of hair to pull out I do have a 960 card. I thought I provided all the information but I missed a key one From a backglass perspective, I've commented out B2S altogether at one point and still got the stutter, but I will go back and check that they are in .EXE.