3889 replies to this topic

[baloo42]

lol frenetic

that's worth 10 coffees!

[gtxjoe]

if you build a VP10 table people will play it

The only custom 3d objects I can make are FP wire ramps and wire guides converted in blender using a tutorial written by others. My build approach is same as yours, plastic ramps will be VP ramps. My plastics will be walls. The toys will be pictures. The primitives I use are from FP or created by VP 3d hobbyists here

If you do want a custom 3d part, just ask in your WIP and see what happens.



Good evening Fren;)

Edited by gtxjoe, 16 May 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[lodger]

 

 

But you don't need to be a great 3d artist to make great tables. There are a lot of base pinball primitives available you can just use in your tables. The thing is that if you want to build realistic looking tables you need 3d objects and we can't change VP into a full featured 3d editor but we can add features to import/export data from and to real 3d editors.

I know and it's great to have all these possibilities!
Just as i said: people will expect realistic looking tables but i can't provide the 3D stuff for that. Yes, i will use the FP primitives that have been collected, but my ramps will be VP ramps, my plastics will be VP walls, my Space Station UFO is a picture that's being rotated, not a 3D UFO...

 

To chime in on this, I totally get where some of the classic builders are coming from. Making tables is time consuming to be sure and it can be demoralizing to not have people play your games, etc. There are a few considerations with this, though. I really like the direction of software like this being inclusive and letting you work any way you want. There are some awesome tables that have been used using classic methods, using primitives, and even recently using photo stock (i.e. LOTR which people were initially up in arms against as a throw back). The best is honestly to have a mixture of the skills to handle whatever comes at you.

 

as a slight tangent: One of the important things for us as a community of builders is setting the right culture for the people that play our games. Most of us are not professional coders, graphics people, etc and the things that we put out are invariably compared to professional results. With this being the case, if you compare our collective products with Pinball Arcade while there might not be quite as much gloss, the gameplay is better and *is free*.Our biggest challenges are to squash out entitledness, help people understand what goes into table building to help them appreciate, and to help would be builders take root. I feel to some extent we've been doing this, but would love to see more interaction from the players of the games with the rest of the community.

 

In summary: bring on 2d, bring on 3d, I'll even try 4d.

http://upload.wikime...cell-simple.gif

[ICPjuggla]

Thanks for all the VPx work done!!
 
Not necessarily a VP10.0 topic but I would eventually like to see a
- Metal Guide Object:  Uses the ramp style approach where you can specify wall thickness and height
- Wire Guide object: Like an open ended rubber object that dips down on the ends.  (specify thickness and height)
 
These are common objects on any table...

I agree with gtxjoe.. if features like this could be added that would be awesome!
Another feature I've been thinking about would be sloping walls too. In many instances I've wished a wall could act like a ramp that was shapeable. It would help out a lot adding bits and parts to ramps and also other areas. Or another example would be plunger lain ramps. Being able to shape a wall and have it slope up to create the affect of a ramp would be nice.

Sorry to bring up an old topic but I don't think it was ever addressed by the dev team. Any chance of getting this stuff implemented as it would help out us authors tremendously in building tables.. Even more so now that we can export VP obj. files to blender etc. etc... :-)

[fuzzel]

I have some ideas for adding wire guides but didn't find the time adding them

[baloo42]

Very well-phrased and a great insight Lodger. i think just about covers everything

Definitely, VP annihilates Pinball Arcade in terms of gameplay and the variety in tables is astounding to say the least, those had to be my biggest pulls here, and the fact that you can customize your own physics. Hooked!

 

i for one really don't like the gloss of the modern games, too much virtual, and not enough tactile. There is only one Pinball game other than VP for me, and darned if i can get it to work on Win7. And that's the Pro-Pinball series. Specifically Fantastic Journey, although people will most likely argue which one takes the helm for Pro, heheh. i think VP has a lot more to offer than any of the current 'big-names' out there, and a lot more staying power. What's happening with the games of today is just a passing craze, all the good ideas have been taken. soon they'll be throwing 'tron' discs around on the pinball table. But hey? wasn't this supposed to be a pinball game?? Where did my Fli&%%ers go!

 

Yeah, bring on the Stereo-vision guys! Wait ... didn't Microsoft just go all Holo-vision on us?

Sometime it's good to stick to what you're good at, no need to try keep up with all the crazy new-trends. i almost had burn-out when i tried a career in 3D animation.

so i found that i was just not suited to that career, but now i've gone back to basics and realize i can do that better, i'm pretty sure that goes for all walks of life.

 

I think it would be great to get some 'step-by-step' guides out. i was very lucky with the community coming to my aid in the nick-of-time, and i realize that learning to code tables must be even more frustrating.

The VP community has helped me get back the faith i lost. i want to show my appreciation by putting a bunch of tutorials up here as a reference for all the 'image dimensions' and formats used in graphics, that should help with anyone who is struggling to get the results they want (that was probably my greatest frustration i had to overcome with learning VP, it's really not easy, especially with no information on the topic.) I've just uploaded a 2nd HD pinball resource graphic this morning, and i want to put up some 'metal guide' resources for builders to use on their tables.

 

I think building a foundation of construction resources and maybe even illustrative guides. This would help channel more people into attempting tables. Instead of having to dig through all the secret tomes of the past.

(although i have to admit, that was probably my greatest attraction.) Perhaps another issue with enough support to build tables is internet awareness. i mean i for one hadn't heard of VP until i was nearly exhausting my search on Pinball games. And then i discovered that all this had been happening for the past 10 years or more? and have been quite a big fan of emulation games over the years. if i had known of this sooner, i would not have looked twice. i saw that a French site (i forgot the name), which combined VP with all other forms of emulation games. Things like that could very well create a bridge.

 

If i can make one note: the photographic visual libraries for the pinball tables are astoundingly huge. You will not find any resources like this for any other topic in the world. Resourcing images has been a part of my past jobs, and never once have i seen such reference material. You guys are on a gold-mine of visual resources here, and quality at that.

 

i'm very much a newcomer to VP, but i have to say that this place is special. Best community on planet Earth! There is a lot of history here, and there's a lot more to be made

Let VP10 carry the flame and be the bearer of things come!

Edited by baloo42, 16 May 2015 - 01:25 PM.

[hauntfreaks]

as a player and tinkerer.... if it looks and plays good it gets install in the cab... look at JP's work, he admits to not knowing or using much 3D and all his stuff in top notch... it isnt "how" you do it, it's if you pulled it off in the end.... many players could care less how the table was built, so again if it looks and plays good, it will be played.... 

Edited by hauntfreaks, 16 May 2015 - 04:55 PM.

[hmueck]

look at JP's work, he admits to not knowing or using much 3D and all his stuff in top notch... it isnt "how" you do it, it's if you pulled it off in the end.... many players could care less how the table was built, so again if it looks and plays good, it will be played....

And yet, some people asked for updated version of some of his tables, because they looked "dated". Oh well, life goes on...

[hauntfreaks]

 

look at JP's work, he admits to not knowing or using much 3D and all his stuff in top notch... it isnt "how" you do it, it's if you pulled it off in the end.... many players could care less how the table was built, so again if it looks and plays good, it will be played....

And yet, some people asked for updated version of some of his tables, because they looked "dated". Oh well, life goes on...

 

 

then they need to find a pay service.... i'm picky on what I put in my cab, but in the end I believe all table should be built no matter what, as better techniques and resources become available so if the base table is there it can be upgraded.... I've found crazy old tables built in the VP-stoneage, not list here on VPF.... that play fine in VP9xx and just need a facelift... to all the authors out there, keep on fightin' the good fight

[hmueck]

I've found crazy old tables built in the VP-stoneage, not list here on VPF.... that play fine in VP9xx and just need a facelift...

Those are tables i like to update! Do you have some examples, please?

Edited by hmueck, 16 May 2015 - 07:30 PM.

[hauntfreaks]

 

I've found crazy old tables built in the VP-stoneage, not list here on VPF.... that play fine in VP9xx and just need a facelift...

Those are tables i like to update! Do you have some examples, please?

 

 

I'll have to dig thru the table to find some good ones... 

 

https://www.dropbox.... (1.0).rar?dl=0 <--Vulcan (Gottlieb) (1977)

[bodydump]

Just started playing with the new transmit lighting stuff and ran into a few problems. Wanted to know what I'm doing wrong.
First problem is that in desktop mode the lights on the upper playfield don't transmit through the plastics and in FS mode the lights on the right side of the PF don't transmit.


Secondly, I get a strange graphical glitch with the transmitted light on one of the plastics. If I remove the notch in the plastic for the VUK, the glitch disappears.

[ReDEy3]

Just started playing with the new transmit lighting stuff and ran into a few problems. Wanted to know what I'm doing wrong.
First problem is that in desktop mode the lights on the upper playfield don't transmit through the plastics and in FS mode the lights on the right side of the PF don't transmit.


Secondly, I get a strange graphical glitch with the transmitted light on one of the plastics. If I remove the notch in the plastic for the VUK, the glitch disappears.

Looking amazing like always bodydump!

[sliderpoint]

Just started playing with the new transmit lighting stuff and ran into a few problems. Wanted to know what I'm doing wrong.
First problem is that in desktop mode the lights on the upper playfield don't transmit through the plastics and in FS mode the lights on the right side of the PF don't transmit.


Secondly, I get a strange graphical glitch with the transmitted light on one of the plastics. If I remove the notch in the plastic for the VUK, the glitch disappears.

 

Not sure exactly what is going on there, but it also highlights an issue with the transmit.  The light doesn't transmit directly straight up, it seems to be dependent on the layback or inclination view settings.  Maybe that has something to do with the issue you're having.

 

-Mike

[Shockman]

I noticed that it did not 'transmit' straight up either. I also noticed that it made the edges of the plastics shine too much. Maybe because they are nearly fully transparent plastics, same with edges, with mostly fully opaque images on them. I went back to at least 2 light emitters per bulb, and as many as 6. The old lighting required the same, so I'm not complaining, just seeing no use for any of the new stuff (transmit and sub modulation). 

[fuzzel]

Sorry can't say much about this feature, that's Toxie's construction

 

but anyway rev1988 is up:

 

- table mesh export should be fixed. I tried with a couple of tables and I could load all of them into Blender.

- Importing primitives has changed with this revision. A new import dialog will show up when you click on "Import Mesh". Here is the info from the changelog.txt:

 

- Mesh import dialog added. The options are:
  * "Convert coordinate system"    : converts a mesh to the left handed coordinate system used by DirectX
  * "Center mesh to it's midpoint"   : The midpoint(pivot) of a mesh is calculated and the whole mesh is moved so that the midpoint is at the origin (0,0,0)
  * "Place at primitive's position"    : The old/normal placement function. The mesh isn't moved and will be placed relative to the primitives base position.
  * "Place at mesh's absolute position (use mesh's middpoint)": The mesh is transformed so it's midpoint(pivot) is at the origin (0,0,0) and then moved to it's absolute position
                                                                                                    where it was placed in the 3D editor (e.g. Blender).
  The last option is useful for the following workflow:
   1. export the table as one huge .obj file (File -> Export -> OBJ Mesh).
   2. import this obj file into your 3D editor.
   3. place additional meshes on the table or replace existing objects
   4. export each object you have added or replaced into a separate .obj file
   5. import each .obj file and in the import dialog select "Place at mesh's absolute position (use mesh's midpoint)". The object's pivot point will be the object's midpoint
      and the base position of the primitive is changed to the position from the 3D editor.
 

Edited by fuzzel, 18 May 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[bodydump]

Just started playing with the new transmit lighting stuff and ran into a few problems. Wanted to know what I'm doing wrong.
First problem is that in desktop mode the lights on the upper playfield don't transmit through the plastics and in FS mode the lights on the right side of the PF don't transmit.


Secondly, I get a strange graphical glitch with the transmitted light on one of the plastics. If I remove the notch in the plastic for the VUK, the glitch disappears.

 
Not sure exactly what is going on there, but it also highlights an issue with the transmit.  The light doesn't transmit directly straight up, it seems to be dependent on the layback or inclination view settings.  Maybe that has something to do with the issue you're having.
 
-Mike

Yea, I switched inclination, FOV and layback to zero and as I change the rotation value, different lights transmit while others don't. Weird.

[Snipey]

Excellent job !

 

I  agree. It may take a little getting used to, but then the switch from vb 6 to vb.net was too.

[toxie]

Just started playing with the new transmit lighting stuff and ran into a few problems. Wanted to know what I'm doing wrong.
First problem is that in desktop mode the lights on the upper playfield don't transmit through the plastics and in FS mode the lights on the right side of the PF don't transmit.


Secondly, I get a strange graphical glitch with the transmitted light on one of the plastics. If I remove the notch in the plastic for the VUK, the glitch disappears.
 

 

Could you PM me the table? Both should not happen actually..

(Was away for a few days, so sorry, couldn't track what was going on on VP)

As for the new feature Fuzzel implemented (great idea, btw ):

 

As mentioned briefly earlier, one can also use this to speed up the tables performance:

- export the table/import in Blender

- group all the primitives that share the same material

- export these elements/import in VP

- profit

 

This way each material will (ideally) only be attached to one giant primitive (consisting of all the previously separate elements), which makes drawing it super-fast on the GPU.

 

Note though that there might be problems if you have opacity enabled for a specific material, so there you need to experiment (as transparent elements need to be sorted, so

grouping these into one giant element might lead to trouble).

[hmueck]

Note though that there might be problems if you have opacity enabled for a specific material, so there you need to experiment (as transparent elements need to be sorted, so
grouping these into one giant element might lead to trouble).

Any idea which kind of primitives would make sense to group then?
Pegs: transparent (most of the time)
Plastics: transparent.
Rubbers?
Metal-Pegs?
But i think the PCs nowadays handle all tables very well.
And people who use the same graphic card for 10 years... maybe it's time for an update. ;-)