1972 replies to this topic

[DJO Maverick]

It absolutely works. You just need to ensure you have the correct x and y axes set for the corresponding nudge axes, and then make sure enable analog nudge is checked. For more realistic response, also check analog nudge filter. You may need to adjust x gain, make sure it's around 100 to start.

Do NOT check nudge is velocity if using a gamepad joystick or otherwise don't know exactly what you're doing.

Should be fine from there...

[Spellbot5000]

No dice. Tried every combo of nudge options possible in the software, and nothing makes a difference. Even if I disable the Y-Axis and only have X enabled, it still only nudges upwards. Oh well. 

[DJO Maverick]

No dice. Tried every combo of nudge options possible in the software, and nothing makes a difference. Even if I disable the Y-Axis and only have X enabled, it still only nudges upwards. Oh well.

So assuming you're using a joystick on desktop and not cab, it sounds like you have the wrong gamepad axis bound, or that you have multiple joysticks connected (or devices VPX is interpreting as joysticks) that are confusing it. Is everything else unplugged?

One other thought is, I believe altering any nudge settings at all with a table open won't take effect until it is completely closed out and reopened.

[Spellbot5000]

Just the single controller plugged in. Axis are correctly bound. Even if I swap the axis to the right stick, the behaviour is the same. And I was fully closing VPX and reopening after changing settings.

 

I've seen a dozen plus threads across different forum sites about this same issue, and not single one came to a conclusion on how to fix this issue. Most just petered out to nothing, or just left it hanging after concluding it was a bug and would maybe be fixed in the future. I originally saw this issue in 2022, and it was confirmed as a bug at that time, so it still may be.

[ACDNate]

Question for the smart folks. I havent updated since 10.7 final and still running 32bit. Prepping for a complete rebuild with a new computer.

The most recent 10.8 version I understand is still rendering in directX but what version? DX9 still?

Also I understand that an open GL version is available ive seen folks claim runs better on some systems. What version?

[dan_shane]

Question for the smart folks. I havent updated since 10.7 final and still running 32bit. Prepping for a complete rebuild with a new computer.

The most recent 10.8 version I understand is still rendering in directX but what version? DX9 still?

Also I understand that an open GL version is available ive seen folks claim runs better on some systems. What version?

 

Open GL is a must for me since I mostly play in anaglyph 3D.  I'm using 10.8.0 RC6.  It does require a fairly beefy PC and GPU.

[Thalamus]

Yes, there are actually 4 versions of VPinballX now. DX (default - in that they aren't named anything new VPinballX.exe) and GL which stands for Open GL. Both is compiled with 32 and 64 bit. I just reinstalled my cab from the bottom up. Replacing some hardware on the way too. Except for 3 odd cases, that can't really be related to VP in that they work on another Win10 machine of mine. Everything, to the best of my knowledge - works perfectly. Well, except for things that is already reported as bugs to the devs. Bugs will always be around. 10.8 is much more stable for editing that 10.7 pr. example.

 

Regular VP, the DX version is still DX9, and will most probably be lacking more and more behind GL releases.

Edited by Thalamus, 26 December 2024 - 02:08 PM.

[ACDNate]

Oh wow, lots of change since i installed 10.7

 

I'm hoping to find someone who has picked up an Intel Arb b580 to run some benchmarks for me. It's a really interesting option at the price point, if it can perform with VPX that is. 

 

Yes, there are actually 4 versions of VPinballX now. DX (default - in that they aren't named anything new VPinballX.exe) and GL which stands for Open GL. Both is compiled with 32 and 64 bit. I just reinstalled my cab from the bottom up. Replacing some hardware on the way too. Except for 3 odd cases, that can't really be related to VP in that they work on another Win10 machine of mine. Everything, to the best of my knowledge - works perfectly. Well, except for things that is already reported as bugs to the devs. Bugs will always be around. 10.8 is much more stable for editing that 10.7 pr. example.

 

Regular VP, the DX version is still DX9, and will most probably be lacking more and more behind GL releases.

[hitman2304]

Question for the smart folks. I havent updated since 10.7 final and still running 32bit. Prepping for a complete rebuild with a new computer.

The most recent 10.8 version I understand is still rendering in directX but what version? DX9 still?

Also I understand that an open GL version is available ive seen folks claim runs better on some systems. What version?

I advise You to try VPX 64 bit, otherwise You are missing most of the VpinWorkshop tables, its super easy to install and is much smoother than 32 bit.

[ACDNate]

That is my intent. I'm gathering parts for the new computer to go along with a recent playfield monitor upgrade to a Philips 144hz screen. Just gotta decide on GPU and then snag an appropriate power supply.

Question for the smart folks. I havent updated since 10.7 final and still running 32bit. Prepping for a complete rebuild with a new computer.

The most recent 10.8 version I understand is still rendering in directX but what version? DX9 still?

Also I understand that an open GL version is available ive seen folks claim runs better on some systems. What version?

I advise You to try VPX 64 bit, otherwise You are missing most of the VpinWorkshop tables, its super easy to install and is much smoother than 32 bit.

[Thalamus]

@acdnate : You don't mention what resolution you are going for. But, be warned if you go for a 4k monitor 120hz or faster. Cables need to be good enough to that standard. You might learn like me, that most GPU doesn't use HDMI, but DP. So, if you've got one HDMI monitor and the new 4k is a TV, well, then you need a converter that supports 1080p or better - most probably. TV's normally doesn't support DP. And TVs are cheaper than monitors. If you take that jump though, there are other things. Not many people do have this kind of setup, and if you haven't upgraded you CPU yet (like me), you may have to go into some tables and fix authors greediness for using very fast timers.

 

Fortunately for me, I've been around so long that I'm yet to find a table that I can't get to flow smooth. A good tip there is ... if you have a table that stutters, use the menu, lock the table. Only then will VP give you a report on what might be fixed/improved. It is a very good helper. I wish that was just a button though I'm sure that will be a feature update we can request.

 

It is very understandable that these kind of things gets overseen. 4k is after all 4 times the resolution that some are still playing on and even maybe half the update speed. Frame Pacing is something you should strive to get to work. For me, setting maximum frame-rate to "minus 1" worked wonders. But, I've still got a lot of testing to do. Just now a couple of hours ago closed the list of "need to look into". Real play testing is next on the list

Edited by Thalamus, 27 December 2024 - 01:31 AM.

[ACDNate]

4k/144hz playfield, 1080 backglass and 1366x768 full dmd. New build i5-12600k, 32gb ram GPU tbd. Gpu will be a rtx30 series or better with HDMI 2.1 support, playfield tv supports hdmi 2.1.

[Thalamus]

You will need a 3070 at least, to be on the safe side 3080 if rtx30 is what you go for. I always steer away from anything lower than 70. They are meant for gaming, sure, but, they are still on the low end of their series. I've got a 3080 upstairs as a desktop machine (regular monitor) and a 4070 super in the cab. 30 series should be good enough though. I had a 1080 running 4k on my previous monitor at 60Hz, but, it would be way to slow for frame pacing at 120Hz. I'm on the edge right now, since my CPU is old. But, I will upgrade that one - some day.

Edited by Thalamus, 27 December 2024 - 02:54 PM.

[ACDNate]

Does 64bit consume more graphic resources than 32bit? 10.8 I assume is more gpu intensive than 10
7?

My old system with i7-4790 and gtx1070 is performing admirable. Some tables do really well. For example JP's Deadpool averages 100fps, Attack from Mars in the 90s. Of course some not so well, ACDC hovers around 50fps.

At the moment 3070ti, and 4060ti are the front runners

You will need a 3070 at least, to be on the safe side 3080 if rtx30 is what you go for. I always steer away from anything lower than 70. They are meant for gaming, sure, but, they are still on the low end of their series. I've got a 3080 upstairs as a desktop machine (regular monitor) and a 4070 super in the cab. 30 series should be good enough though. I had a 1080 running 4k on my previous monitor at 60Hz, but, it would be way to slow for frame pacing at 120Hz. I'm on the edge right now, since my CPU is old. But, I will upgrade that one - some day.

[jpsalas]

There is no difference between 64 bits and 32 bits. One is not faster than the other, and they are just the same. The only difference is that 64 bits can use more memory. That's all. Some systems will like better OpenGL than DX, but in all the tests I have done, the DX versions perform better. And I have a 3080 and an I7 10700k, so in theory the OpenGL version should perform better. The tables should perform very similar in 10.7 than in 10.8, but newer tables may use too many new things that will slow them a lot. For example, the VPW tables are using a lot of huge graphics to make all the graphics and reflections, plus all the script changes to change the behavior of the flippers and rubbers will need some more CPU power.

 

If you want to test the tables and the fps you get use any of my tables, version 4 or 4.3 in 10.7 against a version 5.5 running under 10.8. I guess you may lose a few fps in 10.8, but not much. 10.8 also has a few new commands to avoid some fast timers, like the _Animate command which can sync a primitive to a flipper, a gate or a bumper. Also to fade the flashers you can now link them to a light, so you don't need extra routines to make them fade. That helps a lot too. 

 

About the VPW tables, the older ones used a more aggressive nFozzy routines for the flippers and their physics (shooting angles), but newer tables are much better. So, if you have some older tables you may check for newer versions, because they may have fixed that.

[Urko]

I was always under the impression VPX GL was really only beneficial for VR ?

Looks like unless you have a high(ish) video card DX is the one.

 

I have a 3060 running at 2k resolution, i havent tried GL yet, ill give it a go tomorrow , easy enough to do.

For anyone who wonders, the above runs smooth as silk (all tables) DX at 144 hz (3 screens cabinet), however i dont use puppacks.

Edited by Urko, 28 December 2024 - 02:37 AM.

[deadmanworking]

Fortunately for me, I've been around so long that I'm yet to find a table that I can't get to flow smooth. A good tip there is ... if you have a table that stutters, use the menu, lock the table. Only then will VP give you a report on what might be fixed/improved. It is a very good helper. I wish that was just a button though I'm sure that will be a feature update we can request.

 

Very interesting @Thalamus, I wasn't aware of this diagnostics option. 

Turns out that on two tables with quite noticable stutter (Surf'n Safari and The Machine Bride of Pinbot, all versions) this method diagnosed very short timers of 1ms or 10ms that might be the source of the problem.

Do you maybe have a few pointers on how one would go about adjusting the timers in the scripts and what values might be appropriate? Not very familiar with table scripts and couldn't find obvious variables to adjust. 

Appreciate the input

[Thalamus]

@deammanwalking : I won't be able to teach you how to tune a table I'm afraid.

 

There is so many things that could be the culprit. I'm currently struggling to tune Class of 1812 myself, seems to be getting close, but, that CPU of mine is really not up to snuff.

 

Timers is very often the issue though. Easiest way to find and configure those is to open the table, go in menu to 'Select Element' or better Cntr+Shift+E - from there sort by type. Scroll down to the timers and start to pick one by one. I guess, use the name to guess how important it is. Know, that these are not the only timers in that table.

 

You might pr. example have an object that has enabled its timer. Seen several cases of RightFlipper been given an active timer and very low. Be aware though, there might be a very legit reason for this. All I can say is. Make a backup of the table and go at it. Scripts, well, that is even harder to explain, so I won't. Only that there might be timers running calling subs that doesn't need to be called by maybe the fastest timer.

 

For very advanced debugging, you could maybe rip the table apart using vpxtool and use the data that is exported to find more quickly such things. I haven't tried that yet, but, it's an idea that comes to mind.

 

Be aware that - from what I've seen. Some VR enabled tables has been fiddled with people who must have super computers. Things that absolutely doesn't need very fast timers has been set etc. So, all in all, if you struggle with stutter, make it easy for yourself. Stay away from VR if you don't know how to edit tables.

 

Hope this helps somewhat at least. And what values should they have ? The higher the bettter - sorry. If you reduce one timer, you free up that resource and it can be enough too. There is NO single simple answer. Only - tweak, test ... repeat.

Edited by Thalamus, 29 December 2024 - 03:38 AM.

[kiwi]

 

Turns out that on two tables with quite noticable stutter (Surf'n Safari and The Machine Bride of Pinbot, all versions) this method diagnosed very short timers of 1ms or 10ms that might be the source of the problem.

Do you maybe have a few pointers on how one would go about adjusting the timers in the scripts and what values might be appropriate? Not very familiar with table scripts and couldn't find obvious variables to adjust. 

Appreciate the input

 

Do you have stuttering if you play Surf'n Safari with Vpx10.7 or Vpx10.6?

Because it works fine for me with the official versions, with the beta version I have stuttering too.

[X Vector]

Just tested these tables on my PC (i7 2600K/8GB RAM/Radeon R9 380 4GB/1280x960 desktop).

Surf'n Safari (Kiwi 1.3.3): ran smoothly in VPX 8 RC6 64-bit, latency 0.2 - 0.3 ms (did have a VPX/system lockup during my second game that forced me to do a hard reboot, not sure if this was table related).

Bride of Pinbot VPW 1.0.4: frame rate issues throughout when using 200% supersampling in VPX 8 RC6 64-bit, with SS turned off these disappeared, with latency at 1.0 -1.2 ms (not ideal, but OK).

In VPX 7.3 the table generally ran smoothly with and without supersampling except when hitting the middle hearts lane, probably due to heavy insert/flasher light activity.