1972 replies to this topic

[Crrispy]

I read about that, but my CPU is Ryzen 5 5600, GPU RX 6600, 16GB DDR4 3200mhz ram.

 

I am playing at 1080p@60hz, I get FPS over 300 on most tables, but I am really frustated with frame pacing results, I was expecting to get flipper lag close to a real pinball with frame pacing but I got worst results than VPX 10.7.3.

 

 

But which screen do you have? Most of the flipper lag can be from your screen input lag, even with the most powerful PC config... and also depends on what you use as USB encoder fo the buttons.

Edited by Crrispy, 28 March 2024 - 12:51 PM.

[WiiMoritz]

 

I read about that, but my CPU is Ryzen 5 5600, GPU RX 6600, 16GB DDR4 3200mhz ram.

 

I am playing at 1080p@60hz, I get FPS over 300 on most tables, but I am really frustated with frame pacing results, I was expecting to get flipper lag close to a real pinball with frame pacing but I got worst results than VPX 10.7.3.

 

 

But which screen do you have? Most of the flipper lag can be from your screen input lag, even with the most powerful PC config... and also depends on what you use as USB encoder fo the buttons.

 

 

LG 43LJ5500, acording to rtings.com the TV has 27.2ms input lag, my usb encoder is pico fighting board with less than 1ms input lag as advertised.

 

The case is that I get worse overall input lag (about 50~60ms) when using frame pacing and about 30ms~40ms when using no synch (I tried adaptive synch and got closer results with no synch).

 

I was expeting that since frame pacing option does not rely on monitor refresh rates, I would get better results than without it.

Edited by WiiMoritz, 28 March 2024 - 05:42 PM.

[Crrispy]

That's weird. Where do you get these numbers from? What does VPX say about it? (F11, internal latency). BTW, 60Hz adds up to 16ms latency to the TV input lag.

I have a 9700K, much older than your 5600, and I don't have this issue. I always get better latency with frame pacing. Didn't try RC2 yet, though.

[WiiMoritz]

That's weird. Where do you get these numbers from? What does VPX say about it? (F11, internal latency). BTW, 60Hz adds up to 16ms latency to the TV input lag.

I have a 9700K, much older than your 5600, and I don't have this issue. I always get better latency with frame pacing. Didn't try RC2 yet, though.

 

I noticed the bigger lag when playing, so I recorded my buttonn trigger showing the flipper screen with a 240 fps camera to get those results in ms.

 

VPX F11 shows from 0.0ms to 0.2ms latency, and 60fps 16.6ms render with frame pacing.

 

when playing with no synch, I get about 0.8ms (2.0 max) latency and 300~400+ fps (2.2ms) render.

[WiiMoritz]

Changed day/night values in POV menu, saved, but it's not overwriting table settings when loading.

 

EDIT: This is happening only on Xmen LE VPW table.

 

table ini file

[Player]
BallTrailStrength = 0.490196
OverrideTableEmissionScale = 1
DynamicDayNight = 0
EmissionScale = 0.450001

[TableOverride]
ViewCabMode = 0
ViewCabScaleX = 1.025503
ViewCabScaleY = 1.144490
ViewCabScaleZ = 1.000000
ViewCabRotation = 270.000000
ViewCabPlayerX = 64.599304
ViewCabPlayerY = 0.000000
ViewCabPlayerZ = -130.000000
ViewCabLookAt = 6.400008
ViewCabFOV = 35.399963
ViewCabLayback = 68.799995
ToneMapper = 0

VP DX9 10.8 RC1 X64

Edited by WiiMoritz, 30 March 2024 - 02:58 AM.

[jtrosky]

I'm a little late to the conversation, but here is my experience with vsync/pacing/DX/GL, etc...  A little long, but...

 

Long-time listener, first-time poster.

 

Originally, when I was first setting VPX up, I had to set Vsync On to get things smooth.  But what I didn't realize is that it was adding huge amounts of flipper lag in order to make it smooth.  Since I played the machine all of the time, my mind just "adapted" to the delay and I didn't even realize it was so bad.

 

Then I had some company over and hey found it un-playable due to the flipper lag.  Back to the drawing board...

 

Eventually, I realized that my CPU/GPU was just not up to the task.  I upgraded to a different PC (much faster - with a 1660ti) and after messing with all of the settings, I found setting Nvidia control panel to vsync=fast and the low latency setting to "Ultra" was the best I could get - and worked pretty damn well.  Still had some micro-stuttering though.

 

After upgrading everything to 10.8 and 64 bit (including vpinmame, etc), I just recently tried Frame Pacing (with Nvidia Vsync option set to "application setting" in Nvidia control panel) - WOW!  It works VERY well for me.  Ball is now super smooth everywhere and very little flipper lag (it's an ALP in OTG mode, so there is always some lag).  I did still notice a little screen tearing though...  Hmm...

 

Finally, I tried the GL version of VPX (running in windowed mode) - and that eliminated all of the screen tearing issues - while keeping the ball super smooth and input lag as low as it can be.  Previously, I've never even tried the GL version as I thought it was only for VR.  Boy was I wrong!  Apparently, that is not the case anymore...

 

The only issue I really have with 10.8 RC2 is that I have to disable the 'force round ball" option as it causes the ball to get bigger the further away it gets on certain tables.  If I disable the force-round-ball option, it eliminates that issue.  Plug, it forces me to keep my table at the correct x/y dimensions .  :-)

 

Just wanted to share my experience.

 

HUGE thanks to the VPX devs - they are doing some amazing work (as are all of the table makers!).

Edited by jtrosky, 30 March 2024 - 12:57 PM.

[csdf28]

How do you get screen tearing when the playfield (i.e. 90% of the screen) is basically static?  

[jtrosky]

You get screen tearing when there are bright light flashes that cover a large part of the screen. For example when you plunge the ball in the newest Cyclone or many parts of Whirlwind, etc...

[kaledev]

You get screen tearing when there are bright light flashes that cover a large part of the screen. For example when you plunge the ball in the newest Cyclone or many parts of Whirlwind, etc...

Yeah Whirlwind is a beast - I have a great system and that's one of 2 or 3 that I have to turn down the settings for or I'll get tearing.

[WiiMoritz]

When you assign a joystick button to Tweak (F12), instead of showing the POV menu, it shows a vpinmame change volume window

[jtrosky]

Yeah, I have the same issue with mapping a button to F12 .. not sure why yet.

Actually, the new "Pause" function doesn't seem to work with controller buttons either... Works fine with the keyboard keys.

I'm tempted to setup Joy2Key again for now. Being able to bring up the F12 menu and/or pause without a keyboard would be nice... As long as J2K doesn't introduce any lag. I'm assuming it doesn't impact things that are not mapped through it? Or maybe it does introduce lag everywhere...

Edited by jtrosky, 31 March 2024 - 12:59 PM.

[jtrosky]

You get screen tearing when there are bright light flashes that cover a large part of the screen. For example when you plunge the ball in the newest Cyclone or many parts of Whirlwind, etc...

Yeah Whirlwind is a beast - I have a great system and that's one of 2 or 3 that I have to turn down the settings for or I'll get tearing.

Just to be clear, I don't get ANY tearing with frame pacing setup - even on Whirlwind - and I only have a Ryzen 5 3600 w/1660ti. That is with all settings turned up - except for Super sampling, which I have disabled everywhere.

Frame pacing was a game changer on my cab setup for sure.

[WiiMoritz]

 

 

You get screen tearing when there are bright light flashes that cover a large part of the screen. For example when you plunge the ball in the newest Cyclone or many parts of Whirlwind, etc...

Yeah Whirlwind is a beast - I have a great system and that's one of 2 or 3 that I have to turn down the settings for or I'll get tearing.

Just to be clear, I don't get ANY tearing with frame pacing setup - even on Whirlwind - and I only have a Ryzen 5 3600 w/1660ti. That is with all settings turned up - except for Super sampling, which I have disabled everywhere.

Frame pacing was a game changer on my cab setup for sure.

 

 

Can you post a print of your VP video settings?

[WiiMoritz]

Yeah, I have the same issue with mapping a button to F12 .. not sure why yet.

Actually, the new "Pause" function doesn't seem to work with controller buttons either... Works fine with the keyboard keys.

I'm tempted to setup Joy2Key again for now. Being able to bring up the F12 menu and/or pause without a keyboard would be nice... As long as J2K doesn't introduce any lag. I'm assuming it doesn't impact things that are not mapped through it? Or maybe it does introduce lag everywhere...

 

There are probably going to fix these controller mapping not working soon.

 

You can also add a USB keyboard board if you don't want to use Joy2Key.

 

[jtrosky]

Can you post a print of your VP video settings?

Sorry for the delay. Here are my Nvidia and VPX settings:

VPX:



Nvidia:

Edited by jtrosky, 02 April 2024 - 12:41 PM.

[jtrosky]

Also - I just wanted to mention that one of the tables where I still had issues (before frame pacing) was with the gs5k version of Attack from Mars (which is freaking awesome, by the way!) - whenever the ball would hit the main saucer (or the barrier in front of it), the ball would stutter - every time.

With frame pacing, it's smooth as silk. I also found myself easily getting high scores, so I'm sure it reduced the lag as well.

To me, frame pacing was comparable to getting a monitor refresh rate upgrade!

[kaledev]

Also - I just wanted to mention that one of the tables where I still had issues (before frame pacing) was with the gs5k version of Attack from Mars (which is freaking awesome, by the way!) - whenever the ball would hit the main saucer (or the barrier in front of it), the ball would stutter - every time.

With frame pacing, it's smooth as silk. I also found myself easily getting high scores, so I'm sure it reduced the lag as well.

To me, frame pacing was comparable to getting a monitor refresh rate upgrade!

It's very interesting, frame pacing for me causes a big drop in frame rates compared to vertical sync. I've tested a few tables that are showing a pretty solid 120fps and adding frame pacing drops them to 100-109 and causes stutter. Maybe something unique about my setup?

[jtrosky]

It's very interesting, frame pacing for me causes a big drop in frame rates compared to vertical sync. I've tested a few tables that are showing a pretty solid 120fps and adding frame pacing drops them to 100-109 and causes stutter. Maybe something unique about my setup?

So I'm assuming you have a 120hz screen? Mine is only 60hz.

Are you using the DirectX or OpenGL version of VPX? Window mode or exclusive Fullscreen mode?

Edited by jtrosky, 02 April 2024 - 05:22 PM.

[Drybonz]

I notice the settings above are in windowed mode.  Probably at least some of the confusion about different results people are getting with frame pacing are different fullscreen settings being used.

[kaledev]

It's very interesting, frame pacing for me causes a big drop in frame rates compared to vertical sync. I've tested a few tables that are showing a pretty solid 120fps and adding frame pacing drops them to 100-109 and causes stutter. Maybe something unique about my setup?

So I'm assuming you have a 120hz screen? Mine is only 60hz.

Are you using the DirectX or OpenGL version of VPX? Window mode or exclusive Fullscreen mode?

I'm using GL in Fullscreen with Vertical Sync. I tried Frame Pacing with both modes and it still dropped frames so I switched back to vertical. It's true I am using a 4k 120 screen so perhaps things are different. With 10.8 graphical quality became an issue where 10.7 wasn't - so I had to switch to GL to eliminate weird stuttering. At the moment nearly all tables are fine, but some like Whirlwind require me to turn off ball trails and turn down a few of the settings.