458 replies to this topic

[wiesshund]

I mean, is it possible to combine BAM and anaglyph? And if yes, is it playable well? Feedback from people that used BAM only is, that it looks cool but is unplayable somehow.

 

People have dumb feedback

 

I play FP/BAM in anaglyph, the pink floyd table is great like that

BAM has its own built in 3d anaglyph renderer.
You video card must support openGL 1.4+ or the option wont even be present.

[vogliadicane]

found another thread and it mentioned best settings which are below to try so will give that a go later,   adding for info if it helps anyone 

 

(1: Inclination, 2: FOV, 3: Layback, 4: 3D Stereo Separation, 5: 3D Stereo ZPD)

Playing around with ALL pov settings really can increase the depth A LOT on some tables - which I also considered looking "flat" in 3D .

Especially FOV is something, which dramatically affects the outcome in 3D. Pressing F6 is a complete new experience, now in 3D.

 

What do you think, would it make sense to include 3D per table options (Offset, Separation, ZPD) in the F6 process?

 

I played around with those values and yes, there is of course some impact, but seeing it live would be better; maybe

Edited by vogliadicane, 22 December 2021 - 06:22 PM.

[wiesshund]

Probably not as the 3D settings are a set and forget thing
You wont go changing those on a per table basis really, because your eyeballs are not going to change per table

and that is what you are setting up there, for your eyeballs on a given screen, which will not change per table.

 

I mean it would be kind of helpful during 1st time setup, make it a bit faster

but i dont know if vpx can modify those live after the fact and have it change on the screen?

[scutters]

Hi guys, just starting to try out the anaglyph stuff with cheap 3d red/cyan type glasses.

 

Can some tell me in laymans terms what each of the settings do in VPX 3D stereo output?, offset, separation, ZPD etc.

 

It's a bit of trial and error at the moment for me, main problem i have is after changing settings i kind of forget the mental image in my head of how things looked before the changes by the time i've closed & reopened the table in VPX - so i don't really know if i've improved anything!. Maybe the same reason vogliadicane suggested having F6 type options for the 3D stuff above?

 

Cheers

[toxie]

Yes, good idea. I will look into adding these then!

[toxie]

Can some tell me in laymans terms what each of the settings do in VPX 3D stereo output?, offset, separation, ZPD etc.

 

https://www.vpforums...showtopic=21658

[vogliadicane]

It would also be cool, if F10 would be added to assignable keys, so we could use a physical button in the cab to toggle 3d on/off.

 

...at least for users of the PinControl, where only few keys are hard coded; no F10.

[kds70]

It would also be cool, if F10 would be added to assignable keys, so we could use a physical button in the cab to toggle 3d on/off.

 

...at least for users of the PinControl, where only few keys are hard coded; no F10.

Toxie saw it already and commented it in "flippermarkt-forum".

[ludovids]

Finally got around to applying screen protector film to my active shutter 3D glasses (so TV does not look black when standing at the front of my cab). The effect is better compared to holding the film in front of the glasses, but I still see quite a bit of what looks like interference patterns.

 

My conclusions:

 

Shutter glasses for my setup don't work well enough for play, but provide the best view of what a table looks like in 3D (when standing at the side of the cab).

 

Anaglyph 3D is great for getting a quick 3D view of a table to help discern the visual details of a table.

Edited by ludovids, 13 March 2022 - 04:33 PM.

[Gravy]

 

Can some tell me in laymans terms what each of the settings do in VPX 3D stereo output?, offset, separation, ZPD etc.

 

https://www.vpforums...showtopic=21658

 

Thanks for that link Toxie, a good read.

I also finally got to test out the red cyan anaglyph 3d modes on my setup after buying quite a cool old book about 3D movies/comics/photos/gum cards etc called "Amazing 3D by Hal Morgan and Dan Symmes". It luckily still included the cardboard 3d glasses in pretty good condition.

The 3D effect was generally pretty good and some of the tables I tested had a lot of depth which was great. However I did notice quite a lot of visual issues which I'm sure you are already aware of (other than the obvious colour distortion), on some tables there was warping of the space around the ball, flippers etc as they move, generally only rough accuracy of the perimeters of some 3D elements etc.

I'm now wondering if the VP VR branch currently has (or is going to get) these same anaglyph 3D modes for use on flat screen setups? I'm guessing that the OpenGL implemention might be better suited to having less graphical oddities in 3D anaglyph mode? I seem to recall that you were now working to make it easier for the VP VR team to include VPX updates in their branch?

[Gravy]

I did some comparisons between the reshade Superdepth 3D shader and the inbuilt anaglyph 3D that Toxie recently kindly implemented and I have to say that Superdepth seems to do a much better job of rendering objects and surfaces correctly in 3D although it severely reduces my frame rate on my aging laptop's Nvidia GT 650M whereas there is no real framerate reduction with Toxie's solution. That being said, if you have the horsepower then Superdepth may be the best solution.

It would be interesting to also test if it does a better job of interlaced 3D if anyone has a polarised 3D LG or similar screen to test on. I might also try it with my loungeroom Panasonic 3D TV with shutter glasses. I suspect it will also be better in this regard.

I have finally managed to chat with Superdepth's coder (BlueSkyDefender) on discord and asked if they may be able to add a new option to create the 3D separation on the Y axis as that would help us all out with cabinets running with monitors in landscape setting only.

They seemed interested in the idea of adding the option and were also going to have a look at VP in  general as I dont think they had heard of it.

So hopefully we will be able to run Superdepth 3D without having to change our monitor and POV settings.

Another thing with Reshade, is we could probably install a colour adjustment shader that can adjust the red/ cyan levels etc to help calibrate the screen to the glasses and minimise ghosting/crosstalk.

If anyone has BAM setup with VP, I would also love to hear some feedback on how well eyetracking works in conjunction with 3D glasses.

 

[wiesshund]

If anyone has BAM setup with VP, I would also love to hear some feedback on how well eyetracking works in conjunction with 3D glasses.

 

 

I do not have head tracking, BUT the tables do that ball tracking thing, which is similar
I have to say that in 3D anaglyph it is annoying as HELL

You are looking at an illusion, and of course trying to get your brain to not fight the illusion and try to pick it apart into its components
so as you are trying to train your brain to do this, FP starts shifting the view around, and you are trying to regain the illusion again, which to me sucks
Your mileage may vary, but i think the head tracking, in this instance, might be kind of illusion breaking

 

[Gravy]

I've just had word from the developer of Superdepth 3D that they have added support for Y axis for us pinballers so we hopefully no longer have to run VPX in windows rotated portrait mode. I havent had time to test it yet asI had a harddrive crash and lost my VPX setup. However if anyone would like to give it a try then it is available at https://github.com/B...95775dd607e4941

[Gravy]

Reposting a message I just posted to facebook virtual pinball builder group.

********************
So, a few days ago the developer of Superdepth 3D (Jose Negrete AKA BlueSkyDefender) let me know he had completed the work needed to add the "Y axis" option to his software for us pinballers so we can run it more easily in rotated screen orientation (previously only worked on X Axis). The 3D effect is substantially more accurate than the inbuilt anaglyph modes of VPX and adds so much more immersion to the game although the framerate takes a bit of a hit. The new release is at https://reshade.me/depth3d (if you install the latest version of Reshade it will download the latest Depth 3D version for you with this Y axis change).

Note that if you have your tables set up for 270 degree rotation then you may need to select the "swap eyes" option in the Depth 3D options otherwise the 3D effect will be reversed.

Get yourself a set of anaglyph glasses and try it out with any playfield screen, red/cyan works quite well in "Dubois" mode with not too much colour distortion. But I understand that colorcode blue/amber glasses may give the least loss of colour, harder to find the glasses though but they are certainly available.

If you like what you see, consider donating to Jose for his efforts to help us out. He has a donation link at the end of this page at https://reshade.me/depth3d

[scutters]

Finally got round to trying reshade 5.1 pretty much following gravy's instructions from way back on page 1 , the y-axis option and the swap eyes work for cab use. Overall the superdepth3d effect does seem better than the VPX version - but i suspect that part of the reason for that is that you can dial in the settings in real time so you see what the affect changes make while you do them.

 

Another advantage for me is that you can have the reshade effect off by default and press a button to toggle it on.

 

Not sure if these are any use to people but here's my ReShadePreset.ini file for superdepth settings (goes in the Visual Pinball folder)

 

edit 02/06/20 - tweaked these a bit and updated below

PreprocessorDefinitions=
[email protected]
[email protected]

[SuperDepth3D.fx]
Auto_Balance_Ex=0
Auto_Depth_Adjust=0.100000
Compatibility_Power=0.625000
Cursor_Lock=0
Cursor_SC=1,0,0
Cursor_Type=0
Custom_Sidebars=1
Depth_Detection=0
Depth_Map=0
Depth_Map_Adjust=7.500000
Depth_Map_Flip=0
Depth_Map_View=0
Divergence=17.500000
DLSS_FSR_Offset=0.000000
Eye_Fade_Reduction_n_Power=0,0,0
Eye_Swap=1
Focus_Reduction_Type=0
FPSDFIO=0
Interlace_Anaglyph_Calibrate=0.500000,1.000000,0.500000
Max_Depth=1.000000
Offset=0.000000
Performance_Level=0
Perspective=0
Scaling_Support=0
Stereoscopic_Mode=13
Vert_3D_Pinball=1
View_Mode=0
Weapon_Adjust=0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
Weapon_ZPD_Boundary=0.000000
WP=0
WZPD_and_WND=0.030000,0.000000,0.000000,0.250000
ZPD_Boundary=0
ZPD_Boundary_n_Fade=0.500000,0.252000
ZPD_Separation=0.050000,0.016000 

 

If you do use those settings then you'll notice that i also switched to blue/amber glasses - not sure if they're colourcode or not but the colour does seem a lot better with these. The cyan/red ones i had originally didn't work well at all, but i think i messed up there - they were actually blue/red not cyan/red 

 

To get the reshade effect to be off by default you need to amend the ReShade.ini (also in Visual Pinball folder) and change the NoReloadOnInit line to  NoReloadOnInit=1, and then assign a key to turn the effect on when you want. For that you need the keycode value, i used F16 as the key which has a keycode of 127 and changed the KeyEffects and KeyReload in the INPUT section to use that (i did that directly in the ini file as well as the settings didn't always save in the reshade gui). Note you need to press the key twice the first time to turn the effect on.

NOTE - changed lines only shown

[GENERAL]
NoReloadOnInit=1

[INPUT]
KeyEffects=127,0,0,0
KeyReload=127,0,0,0

Edited by scutters, 02 June 2022 - 01:49 PM.

[Gravy]

 

Finally got round to trying reshade 5.1 pretty much following gravy's instructions from way back on page 1 , the y-axis option and the swap eyes work for cab use. Overall the superdepth3d effect does seem better than the VPX version - but i suspect that part of the reason for that is that you can dial in the settings in real time so you see what the affect changes make while you do them.

 

Another advantage for me is that you can have the reshade effect off by default and press a button to toggle it on.

 

Not sure if these are any use to people but here's my ReShadePreset.ini file for superdepth settings (goes in the Visual Pinball folder)

Thanks for those tips. I'm thinking the differences between inbuilt 3D and Superdepth are not something that can be completely fixed by simply tweaking the inbuilt settings as there seem to be some aspects of the 3D that are not handled well by inbuilt anaglyph (it introduces depth errors and other oddities such as the ball wobbly halo effect). Perhaps it's something that Toxie can look at further down the line and get it working with similar accuracy to Superdepth3D but I'm not sure.

I made a video below that shows some of the problems and how Superdepth performs in comparison.

Looking forward to getting my amber/blue, hopefully they arrive soon.

https://youtu.be/nAWtLu47CbU

 

Edited by Gravy, 03 May 2022 - 05:45 AM.

[Tiki]

It seems to be hard to get amber-blue glasses or clips for glasses.
If you have a serious source, please post it here

[Gravy]

It seems to be hard to get amber-blue glasses or clips for glasses.
If you have a serious source, please post it here

I'm not sure about where to buy in Germany, but you can import from China. I have some on order from this Aliexpress seller but cannot vouch for their quality yet as they are still on their way to me here in Australia. Once you get to the page, click on the small image of the dark glasses below the price, Color code should then change to PH0009BB (They are called Blue Brown but hopefully they are a reasonable match for Color code 3D glasses even if not 100% accurate colour)

https://www.aliexpre...2829814909.html

Also in USA there is this company selling cardboard color code glasses, they may also sell the plastic version but you likely need to email them as not listed on the website.  https://3dstereo.com...e-cardboard-new

In Australia I found this seller https://www.oz3d.com...es/category/27/


Regarding clip on glasses, it seems there may have been some available in the past but patents seem to be getting in the way. You could probably make your own by getting a pair of clip ons and a pair of the amber blue glasses, then pull the lenses out and glue them to the clip ons.

Edit: I just noticed this post takes me to a total of 666 posts... promise I'm not being evil though.

Edited by Gravy, 04 May 2022 - 01:04 AM.

[vogliadicane]

I have the ones from aliexpress, they are ok.

[Gravy]

I have the ones from aliexpress, they are ok.

That's good to hear, how is your experience with them so far?

Are you using Reshade and Superdepth3D or just the inbuilt anaglyph of VPX 10.7?