207 replies to this topic

[wrd1972]

Beat you guys to the punch.

The wire ramp has already been cut down just a bit for the latest beta.

 

And thanks for that pic. That will be useful in better dialing in the face height, that round plate in front of the rotating cube and a few other things.

Edited by wrd1972, 14 October 2016 - 12:33 PM.

[toxie]

 

Well environment maps are great for glossy reflections and all the highlights and stuff they add to materials but it would be nice to just be able to add "environment lights" instead of maps to better control how the over all lighting works.  Currently all we can do is adjust the map, or scale/move around it around.  When working on NGG we had an issue come up with this where a major hot spot highlight was just beaming off the slam ramp, I think what we ended up doing was adjusting the inclination by a degree just to move the highlight off of that area.  Honestly I'm really happy with the inclusion of environment maps in VP as they've allowed us to make things look so much better and more realistic in conjunction with our materials and textures but it does have it's short falls.

 

Borg you have to think of environment lighting as the room lighting,  there's a few lights on in and around the room but it's still kinda dark, depending on your point of view and angle of the table in relation to the lights is what's going to determine where highlights land.  Like if you were to hold a mirror out flat facing up in a room and started to angle it one way or another you will see the room's light move around on it accordingly.  It makes good sense it's just not always flexible.  You're right the FS view is kind of like hovering directly over the table as if your a PAPA camera - which is exactly why I prefer slightly more inclination and not have the table fill the entire screen to give it some depth.  If you rotated a view with environment lighting all the way from a flat looking FS view to a view that resembled a DT view you'd see how the lighting moving around makes sense.  Toxie explained it really well really with the diagrams.

 

Sorry for the continued hijack of your thread Bill.

 

I agree that having environment maps in there adds a lot to how the tables look, and I understand what you are saying about room lighting, and I definitely have rotated a table in camera view and seen the lighting move. But I think some of what it is doing is not realistic, especially on the FS views because nobody ever looks at them that way unless watching the PAPA videos and their like.  But since we like diagrams I made one to show what I am talking about.  

 

So here I am standing at my cab.  Yes, I'm the Flash, don't tell anyone.  And I have the view of the FS playfield on my screen as shown.  But what VP is doing because of the inclination setting controlling the environment lighting is showing me Superman's view of the playfield, and while I am seriously jealous of superman's ability to fly what I really want vp to show me is the lighting as I would see it from standing at the cab, in fact I want it to always show me the lighting as if I was standing at the cab, not dependent on the inclination that is used to make the VP tables fit the screen.  DT views in this way, in my opinion, are actually much more realistic as far as that lighting goes.  My depth in the cab is provided by it actually being a cab and the back of the screen is further away from me, just like the real ones.  On em tables where the real playfield is parallel to the cabinet glass, that is also how I set my vp tables, on more modern tables more inclination is needed in vp to add the extra depth those machines have.

 

 

Late to the party, but actually this is also one of the unfinished things on my VP-setup (and i think on Fuzzels, too): Having a better camera model, including the 'correct' position of the viewer, projection, and all, kinda like what BAM (for FP) has. Sounds simple, but at some point it drove me insane because all kinds of strange things happened for some objects.

[fuzzel]

Oh yes I can only second that. Well I have an idea though how we could get better camera views but I'm not 100% sure if that is doable and compatible to existing tables. Well compatibility could be achieved by adding just another switch in the settings

[wrd1972]

I've had a chance to play this beta for a bit now... as far as beta feedback, and this is really just preference stuff and not problems with the table, so feel free to take with a grain of salt, but I would say the slingshot threshold seems a bit low and also it seems very difficult to get a clean hit on the left ramp that feeds the bride head.  This could be one of those "I suck at pinball" things but was having a lot of trouble getting a clean hit.  Maybe someone else can test for that .

 

Overall, it's great fun and visually very impressive.

When you say slingshot threshold is too low. Can you further explain? Also, what exactly is slingshot threshold?

[Drybonz]

 

I've had a chance to play this beta for a bit now... as far as beta feedback, and this is really just preference stuff and not problems with the table, so feel free to take with a grain of salt, but I would say the slingshot threshold seems a bit low and also it seems very difficult to get a clean hit on the left ramp that feeds the bride head.  This could be one of those "I suck at pinball" things but was having a lot of trouble getting a clean hit.  Maybe someone else can test for that .

 

Overall, it's great fun and visually very impressive.

When you say slingshot threshold is too low. Can you further explain? Also, what exactly is slingshot threshold?

 

 

Hey wrd... slingshot threshold is the 3rd setting down under physics when you highlight the slingshot.  It controls how much pressure from the ball it takes to activate the slingshot.  To be realistic, the sling should allow the ball to lightly touch it and roll down the the flipper, and when the ball taps it with more pressure it fires.  I think I have read that 5 is a good value and I see that on a lot of tables, although I sometimes think 4 or even 3 is better (lower number is more sensitive sling).  When it's set to 0, even the slightest touch activates the sling.

 

This is all just stuff I have read here and there... I think maybe nFozzy wrote something about it... maybe he can jump in here and correct me if my description is not good.

[wrd1972]

...also how is it different that "hit" threshold. Maybe hit threshold is overridden by slingshot threshold.

[BorgDog]

"hit" and "slingshot" are two separate events that trigger two different subs, although mostly on slingshots I only ever see leftslingshot_slingshot and not leftslingshot_hit.  There are multi-level switches out there that if you just push a little will trigger one and it takes a slightly bigger hit to trigger the second.  Can't think of any examples off the top of my head though.

 

edit: and actually I don't know if walls actually trigger the "hit" event on the side that is marked as "slingshot", I've never tried it.

Edited by BorgDog, 24 October 2016 - 05:30 PM.

[Drybonz]

If you experiment with slingshot threshold settings from 0-5 you will be able to see the difference in the sensitivity... try 0, then 5 for a dramatic comparison, then something in between.

[wrd1972]

Update:

Finally getting to spend some time on BOP. Man where to start on all of the new stuff going in:

• New modulated GI flashing (thanks nfozzy)
• New plastics prims (thanks Cyberpez)
• All PF objects more precisely scaled.
• HMLF physics
• Upper PF new precisely scaled
• Much more realistic (and cantankerous) skill shot
• New flipper physics (Thanks Rothbauerw)
• Tons of improved 3D objects
• BOP 2.0 blue helmet rights option
• Flasher dome prims (thanks Flupper)
• All new lighting

Heres a teaser pic:

 

Table is playing fantastic. Trying to get this one wrapped up and released ASAP.

Stay tuned.

Edited by wrd1972, 15 July 2017 - 03:40 AM.

[batch]

This table is also "looking" fantastic, it's the rise of the machines !

[DKong]

Wow wrd, you keep improving your already fun tables.  All of your efforts are greatly appreciated!

[Rajo Joey]

I thought, this table can't be better... but this is a new higher level. :-)

I play BOP last week in PA and it's so awfully boring. I stop the game after I score 10 Billion points. It's no challenge.
The VPX-table is much better playable and have better artwork. Great game.

Gesendet von meinem SGP511 mit Tapatalk

Edited by Joey2001, 15 July 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[vogliadicane]

great news, although I think your previous version is already fantastic!

 

Did you change the POV and make the table slimmer? I nowadays make most new tables manually slimmer, because I think we accidentially all have somehow got used to stretching them from side to side in our wide body cabs, which made some of them much too wide and looking unnatural. I your case though I must confess it looks too slim. Maybe I'm wrong and it looks different in a cab.

[wrd1972]

great news, although I think your previous version is already fantastic!

 

Did you change the POV and make the table slimmer? I nowadays make most new tables manually slimmer, because I think we accidentially all have somehow got used to stretching them from side to side in our wide body cabs, which made some of them much too wide and looking unnatural. I your case though I must confess it looks too slim. Maybe I'm wrong and it looks different in a cab.

Good eye.  The POV is not dialed in simply due to its still under construction. I had it fitted to my desktop monitor that I rotate 90 degrees for again, development purposes only. For release, it will return to my typical cookie cutter POV that I have been using. For my standard cab and my personal use. I have been stretching the table to shove the aprons off the bottom to reduce that Y direction squashed look. Man I wish they still made those wide wide screen TV that would alllow us a perfect aspect ration with things looking squashed.

[Mark70]

I already thought after the first and second version this can hardly be better.  

[wrd1972]

I thought, this table can't be better... but this is a new higher level. :-)

I play BOP last week in PA and it's so awfully boring. I stop the game after I score 10 Billion points. It's no challenge.
The VPX-table is much better playable and have better artwork. Great game.

Gesendet von meinem SGP511 mit Tapatalk

LOL yeah its sort of thin on the rules but for some reason its still fun to play.  And there is no other table that makes me swear out loud more than BOP when you have multiball and are going for the billion and one ball drains. @#$%^&* . BTW, the table is completely ready for the 2.0 upgrade...hint hint to somebody out there.

[Ben Logan]

Looking great, wrd and company! Can't wait wait to play the table with you guys' updated physics. You have an amazing talent for development and for pulling together a super talented team of creatives. Way to go everyone!

[wrd1972]

Rev 1.2 has been released.

Enjoy.

-B

[bolt]

Thank you for the update.

[hanzoverfist]

Looking forward to trying update!