1103 replies to this topic

[Pete248]

Yes, I read about that in your V1 manual and it makes sense as the rays of light should be as parallel as possible.

On the other hand with a lot of light sources in the cabinet (illuminated buttons, control LEDs etc.), a "closed" bracket with integrated LEDs might be less prone to fake "shadows" on the sensor.

[MatthGyver]

For me, closed design have 2 advantages :

 - Deep dark shadow (I'll do a screenshot later)

 - No other lights (I've my led flipper button at right, we see them turned off on my second picture)

[Pete248]

Thats what I expected. Question is, whether the software can discriminate between light artifacts from other light sources and the shadow from the plunger. And it could be, that a hard edged shadow is more important than a deep but slightly soft edged shadow.

Probably only mjr knows for sure.

Anyways a bracket with LEDs integraded would look cleaner.

[Pete248]

 

 

Okay, I'll try to get them both uploaded soon.

 

The bracket attaches to the plunger.  It doesn't include anything for the LEDs, as the recommendation is to mount those separately as far away as possible from the sensor (which basically means on the floor of the cabinet) to get the narrowest shadow.

 

 

Can you post a link, when they are up?

 

Thanks

 

Pete

[mjr]

Okay, I'll try to get them both [the design files for the sensor mounting bracket and the connector board] uploaded soon.

 

Done!  They're both available via the Pinscape resources page:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/index.html

[MatthGyver]

I just see your new website with more and more informations. Very good for us.

Nice job !

[Pete248]

 

Okay, I'll try to get them both [the design files for the sensor mounting bracket and the connector board] uploaded soon.

 

Done!  They're both available via the Pinscape resources page:

 

http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/index.html

 

 

Thank you very much. The board is already ordered. 

 

Plunger bracket is a bit more difficult. Seems Shapeways does not accept native SketchUp files. So I'd either have to find another printer or try to convert the file. Unfortunately I'm a total noob when it comes to 3D printing. Any tips are appreciated.

 

Pete

Edited by Pete248, 17 August 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[roar]

mjr... I've hit another impasse with my flashers. I got the new ULN2064 chips in and have swapped the chips out. That is always a lot of fun, you'd think I'd learn and put sockets in but I forgot to order those again and on they went straight to the board.

I've isolated my 5V's so there is no chance of sending 12V into these chips again and I've swapped out all of my RGB LED's. The problem I'm running into now is that a couple of the lights aren't working. From JP11 R2 and G4 aren't lighting up for me. I have verified that the 5V's is getting to the + side of the RGB. I have verified continuity with my multimeter that the wire that goes to pin G4 is showing up on IC7. I've actually wired B4 up to negative side of the Green light on my RGB and it lights up so I know the LED is good. Is there any steps you could suggest for me to trace the pins from R2 and G4 on JP11 over to IC7 and IC5?

[mjr]

mjr... I've hit another impasse with my flashers. I got the new ULN2064 chips in and have swapped the chips out. That is always a lot of fun, you'd think I'd learn and put sockets in but I forgot to order those again and on they went straight to the board.

I've isolated my 5V's so there is no chance of sending 12V into these chips again and I've swapped out all of my RGB LED's. The problem I'm running into now is that a couple of the lights aren't working. From JP11 R2 and G4 aren't lighting up for me. I have verified that the 5V's is getting to the + side of the RGB. I have verified continuity with my multimeter that the wire that goes to pin G4 is showing up on IC7. I've actually wired B4 up to negative side of the Green light on my RGB and it lights up so I know the LED is good. Is there any steps you could suggest for me to trace the pins from R2 and G4 on JP11 over to IC7 and IC5?

 

I know what you mean about unsoldering - it's a gigantic pain with these big chips with lots of pins.  I know it's not any help for you after the fact, but for future builds, at least, I've added suitable sockets to the parts list for all of the big chips.  I didn't use sockets in my own build either, but I'm starting to lean towards recommending them.  It makes it so much easier to recover from this kind of problem, as well as things like inserting the chip wrong in the wrong orientation when soldering it.

 

Anyway...  Am I correct that all of these outputs were working before that unfortunate 12V cross-wiring happened?  If so, that should at least narrow the number of things to look at.

 

Tracing the circuits, if we start at 2R:

 

  - JP11 pin 8 (2R) goes to IC5 pin 16

  - IC5 pin 14 is the input side of that, connecting to OK1 pin 9

  - OK1 pin 8 is the input side of *that*, connecting to IC1 pin 3

 

I'd check each pair of those for continuity, testing at the actual chip legs on the top of the board rather than the solder pads.  The problem is sometimes a bad solder joint between the pin leg and solder pad that's practically impossible to detect by visual inspection.  Testing continuity at the chip pins can usually catch these.

 

The equivalent for 4G:

 

  - JP11 pin 5 (4G) goes to IC7 pin 9

  - IC7 pin 11 goes to OK3 pin 11

  - OK3 pin 6 goes to IC1 pin 10

 

If all of that checks out, you can try some powered-on tests.  You can remove the KL25Z for these so that you can get to the chips more easily, if necessary.  

 

The first test is to (very carefully!) attach a probe wire to +5V from the secondary PSU - you can use the +5V on JP11 for this.  Then touch the other end of the wire to the Darlington inputs - IC5 pin 14 for 2R, IC7 pin 11 for 4G.  If the respective LEDs light up, the Darlingtons are working.  If not, the problem is probably that those stages of the Darlington chips are dead.  Hopefully not the case given that you just replaced them!!!  But defective chips from the factory can occasionally happen.

 

The second test is a little trickier because you need a resistor to add to your probe wire.  About 1K should work.  Attach the probe wire to the PSU2 ground.  Attach the other end to one end of the resistor.  Then attach a second probe wire to the other end of the resistor, and carefully touch the other end of that probe to the OKn input pins.  For 2R, that's OK1 pin 8; for 4G, it's OK3 pin 6.  This will test the optocoupler.  Again, if the respective LEDs light up, the optos are good; if not, you might have a problem in the respective opto chips.

 

Hopefully you'll track it down with the continuity tests and won't have to go to all that extra trouble!

[Pete248]

Given the desaster that happened to roar with inadvertently sending 12V to a 5V line, using appropriate fuses on each output might have prevented it. Frankly with the huge number of outputs on the Pinscape, that would be a lot of fuses to solder.

What do you think about a separate board for the fuses with matching connectors to the Pinscape expansion boards. To equip an existing installation with fuses would then easy by moving the current output connector from the Pinscape expansion board to the fuse board and connect the fuse board to the Pincape with an 1:1 cable.

Pete

Edited by Pete248, 18 August 2016 - 06:04 AM.

[roar]

mjr, thanks for that. Sounds like I need to roll my sleeves up and dig back in... you are correct to assume that everything was working just fine before my mix up

 

Pete248, I like the sound of a fuse board... there are a lot of outputs and others have assembled good looking fuse boards themselves. If there was a scale to rate ones skills for this project between 1 and 10 with 1 being you've never plugged in a soldering iron before and 10 being mjr I would probably put myself at a 3 so I'm more confident in other people not making my mistakes. I am hoping by me sharing my experiences throughout this thread anyone else on the junior end of the scale will learn from me

[mjr]

What do you think about a separate board for the fuses with matching connectors to the Pinscape expansion boards. To equip an existing installation with fuses would then easy by moving the current output connector from the Pinscape expansion board to the fuse board and connect the fuse board to the Pincape with an 1:1 cable.

 

That would be a nice addition, I agree.  The question is whether it can be done economically.  I use 3AG fuses, which are pretty big; one 10x10 cm board won't hold that many.  I'll have to take a look and see if I can make something work.

[Pete248]

How many fuses would be possible, if you lay them out on a 10 x 10 cm square with minimal spacing in-between?

Some thoughts:

Fuse sockets on both sides of the fuse board to double on fuses per board.

Smaller board with only 16 fuses. Output connectors on the Pinscape expansions board are either 16 or 32 pins IMO. So 1-2 fuse boards would be enough per Pinscape connector.

Edited by Pete248, 21 August 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[Tatanka1961]

 

What do you think about a separate board for the fuses with matching connectors to the Pinscape expansion boards. To equip an existing installation with fuses would then easy by moving the current output connector from the Pinscape expansion board to the fuse board and connect the fuse board to the Pincape with an 1:1 cable.

 

That would be a nice addition, I agree.  The question is whether it can be done economically.  I use 3AG fuses, which are pretty big; one 10x10 cm board won't hold that many.  I'll have to take a look and see if I can make something work.

 

 

That would be great indeed. Although you could use a fuse box like these: http://www.ebay.co.u...HUAAOSwstxVMM4k

They use 'blade' fuses that are common in cars these days instead of the glass fuses though.

Or i found these http://www.ebay.co.u...H8AAOSwHnFV4TTf of which you could easily fit 32 on a single 10x10 board. :-D

 

While you're at it, a resistor board for the RGB flashers would be nice too.  

If you power them from 5V, 5W resistors should be more than enough. Like these on mouser: 71-CW0055R100JE73

They are about 25mm long and 8mm diameter. 

Edited by Tatanka1961, 23 August 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[Pete248]

True, there are some generic fuse boards available. The elegance of a dedicated board would be, that connecting the Pinscape to the fuse board and connecting the output devices to the fuse board could be a snap with matching connectors.

[mjr]

Although you could use a fuse box like these: http://www.ebay.co.u...HUAAOSwstxVMM4k

They use 'blade' fuses that are common in cars these days instead of the glass fuses though.

 

True, there are some generic fuse boards available. The elegance of a dedicated board would be, that connecting the Pinscape to the fuse board and connecting the output devices to the fuse board could be a snap with matching connectors.

 

Agreed.

 

I've always had a preference for the 3AG fuses, but the smaller form factor car fuses might not be a bad way to get better density if they have similar performance and pricing.

 

 

While you're at it, a resistor board for the RGB flashers would be nice too.  

 

I actually have a board like that already mostly designed, with the ribbon cable pin connections matching the main board header.  I'll post that when I get a chance - I need to take another look to make sure it's all in final form, but I think it's mostly set to go.

[Tatanka1961]

Agreed.

I've always had a preference for the 3AG fuses, but the smaller form factor car fuses might not be a bad way to get better density if they have similar performance and pricing.

 

I agree, but I doubt it would be possible to fit 32 of them on a single 10x10 board...

The only thing about car fuses is that there are no fast or slow (as far as I know).
Personally I wouldn't mind paying the extra buck (Euro in my case  ) for the smd fuses, but I suppose other people might want to limit their budget...

 

I actually have a board like that already mostly designed, with the ribbon cable pin connections matching the main board header.  I'll post that when I get a chance - I need to take another look to make sure it's all in final form, but I think it's mostly set to go.

 

 

Thanks, that would be great! I like the idea of having a neat and consistent look even if it's on the inside...

[Pete248]

SMD fuses? Hmm, a bit hard to solder and difficult to replace in case one is blown.

 

Maybe multiple somehow stackable 16 fuses boards for standard 3AG fuses are more practical. With stackable I mean the first fuse board has a 32 pin 1:1 connector to the Pinscape. 16 ouputs are routed to the 16 fuses, the other 16 are connected to the second fuse board or are used directly without fuses for less demanding toys.

[Tatanka1961]

SMD fuses? Hmm, a bit hard to solder and difficult to replace in case one is blown.

 

They can be mounted in a socket obviously. See the link in post #174 

[Pete248]

Yes, that looks like a nice solution.

I think 32 should fit easily on a small board, probably even more.

What would be better? Go for a small 32 fuses board and add a second or third one if you need? Or do a 10x10 board with more fuses, that would be enough for a Pinscape + Powerboard (+ Chimeboard) setup? You simply don't solder all sockes, if you have less outputs.

Key would be to be able to use 1:1 connections from the Pinscape output connectors to the fuse boards. And probably the option to install screw terminal as output connectors for the fuse board as a second alternative to the molex connectors.

Edited by Pete248, 28 August 2016 - 06:57 AM.