204 replies to this topic

[Rajo Joey]

In the last few years, I and others with version 10.6 have had the problem a few times, that after starting a table, the bumpers and slingshots suddenly stopped working without anything being changed on the table.
A new download of the table could then fix the problem.
UnclePaulie aka pgheyd took care of the problem some time ago, because he also had the same problem. He determined that it must have been due to a crash of the table.

The bumpers and slingshots suddenly had a "Hit Threshold" of 100 after the restart. After resetting to usual values of 3 and 1 respectively, the table ran normally again.
This happened to me again today. One table was working fine. Then VPX crashed and after that bumpers and slingshots didn't work anymore.
For both, the settings were set back to 100 after the restart.
Now, that I know what the problem is, it's not a problem for me. Nevertheless, I wanted to report this now.

I can't say if this will happen in 10.7 as well, since I'm not playing with it yet.

[jpsalas]

I have never had this problem, and i have done a lot editing, running, quitting and i have also had many crashes. But never this problem.

Sent fra min SM-A217F via Tapatalk

[Thalamus]

New to me too. And, I do play a lot

Edited by Thalamus, 23 June 2021 - 02:39 PM.

[wiesshund]

i am not sure how that would even happen, as you would need to physically save the table, unless it is a table written to save the game states

and save, and then load things besides just the score, and i doubt anyone writes a table to save the tilted state? which is the only thing that would normally set the thresholds to 100

But even if that was strangely happening, it would only happen when the table inits, the values would never appear in the editor itself.

 

I've never seen this happen, and i've crashed vpx enough that the automotive safety institute has offered me a job

What tables is this happening on

What are the table files showing for a last modified date in file properties
And do you happen to have the crash.txt?

[Rajo Joey]

Yes, i know, it's a mystery. And I see, you don't believe my words.

But today it happened again. Edit lots of things in a new converted table to a vr-room.

Change and saved many times. Then 10.6 crashed and 4 of 5 bumper and 1 of 2 slingshots doesn't work.

All have again the threshold of 100!

Fortunately, I'm not the only one this has happened to.
A few people on Facebook have had this problem and UnclePaulie was also surprised, that it could happen, without changing the settings.

 

[Edit]

wiesshund points to something that might be related.
I was testing the Future Spa table and since I had to put different things in the backglass, I also wanted to see if they worked and are in the right position.
So I also tilt the table, to see the display in the Backglass.
I can't remember exactly if it crashed after that, but that could be a possible explanation.
Have just tried and that is indeed the cause.
Table tested, tilt, suddenly Steam VR no longer responds, table will thus crash, but is still visible. I save my changes by still saving the table. VPX crashed.
After exiting VPX and restarting the table, the values from the tilt are present in the bumpers and slingshots.
So it is clear what the problem is. Thanks for the tip.

 

Edited by Rajo Joey, 26 June 2021 - 10:34 AM.

[Thalamus]

Oh. I didn't say that you where lying or I didn't believe you. You've been around far too long for that. Your problem though, is not something I would expect or have experienced at all, that is what I'm saying. By the last example, you mention that you are actually editing the table, and saving, several times. So, are you saying that maybe, because of you changing something, all of a sudden these objects do get a different value without you actually noticing maybe ?

[Rajo Joey]

Hi, that was meant more as a joke. Didn't really think anyone would think I was a liar. Hence the smiley.

And it was because of the tilt. The tilt sets the values for the bumpers and slingshots to 100.
If the table is then still saved in the moment before the editor crashes, the values remain in the table.
Therefore they do not react after the restart.

You can also try it yourself.
Push the table hard until the tilt, then although the table is still running, switch the window to VPX and save the table. Close VPX and restart.

[Thalamus]

So, basically, vpmNudge.TiltObj ?

 

Sounds to me it should be a relative easy fix. Resetting those values before table saved.

Edited by Thalamus, 26 June 2021 - 01:15 PM.

[wiesshund]

Hi, that was meant more as a joke. Didn't really think anyone would think I was a liar. Hence the smiley.

And it was because of the tilt. The tilt sets the values for the bumpers and slingshots to 100.
If the table is then still saved in the moment before the editor crashes, the values remain in the table.
Therefore they do not react after the restart.

You can also try it yourself.
Push the table hard until the tilt, then although the table is still running, switch the window to VPX and save the table. Close VPX and restart.

 

Well, as a work around, you could have the table init sub define the thresholds as normal

 

Is this something that only happens when playing as VR?

[Rajo Joey]

Hi, that was meant more as a joke. Didn't really think anyone would think I was a liar. Hence the smiley.
And it was because of the tilt. The tilt sets the values for the bumpers and slingshots to 100.
If the table is then still saved in the moment before the editor crashes, the values remain in the table.
Therefore they do not react after the restart.
You can also try it yourself.
Push the table hard until the tilt, then although the table is still running, switch the window to VPX and save the table. Close VPX and restart.

 
Well, as a work around, you could have the table init sub define the thresholds as normal
 
Is this something that only happens when playing as VR?

Don't know. In former times I only play with normal VPX. Since I play in VR and use the editor often, I noticed it a few times.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G998B mit Tapatalk

[Rawd]

@Rajo - re: Bumpers Slings dying...

 

It was explained to me that the reason this happens is because of the way that VP saves table states in the editor before and after you load and exit a table.   If you tilt on a table, it will set the bumpers slings and bumpers dead, so that they wont work during tilt.  On some machines, in certain instances (not always a crash), if you exit the table in this tilt state, the bumper states will save in their current state on table exit.   You need to either re-download the table, or reset those bumpers hit properties.  I discovered this while working on Eight Ball.  Also, sometimes I will open up the editor, and one of my animated prims is in a different position that I originally placed it. 

Edited by Rawd, 26 June 2021 - 10:49 PM.

[wiesshund]

 

 

Hi, that was meant more as a joke. Didn't really think anyone would think I was a liar. Hence the smiley.
And it was because of the tilt. The tilt sets the values for the bumpers and slingshots to 100.
If the table is then still saved in the moment before the editor crashes, the values remain in the table.
Therefore they do not react after the restart.
You can also try it yourself.
Push the table hard until the tilt, then although the table is still running, switch the window to VPX and save the table. Close VPX and restart.

 
Well, as a work around, you could have the table init sub define the thresholds as normal
 
Is this something that only happens when playing as VR?

Don't know. In former times I only play with normal VPX. Since I play in VR and use the editor often, I noticed it a few times.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G998B mit Tapatalk

 

 

I am just wondering, because i crash vpx a lot, but i have not run into that
but then i have not purposely tilted the table either. (I rarely tilt because that would entail actual talent at nudging)
I might have to rig up something that will purposely crash the table, and then tilt it and crash.

Might just have to take up including in my table inits an initial reset of tilt object thresholds
and movable prims start positions

Edited by wiesshund, 27 June 2021 - 01:38 AM.

[Rajo Joey]

 

 

 

Hi, that was meant more as a joke. Didn't really think anyone would think I was a liar. Hence the smiley.
And it was because of the tilt. The tilt sets the values for the bumpers and slingshots to 100.
If the table is then still saved in the moment before the editor crashes, the values remain in the table.
Therefore they do not react after the restart.
You can also try it yourself.
Push the table hard until the tilt, then although the table is still running, switch the window to VPX and save the table. Close VPX and restart.

 
Well, as a work around, you could have the table init sub define the thresholds as normal
 
Is this something that only happens when playing as VR?

Don't know. In former times I only play with normal VPX. Since I play in VR and use the editor often, I noticed it a few times.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G998B mit Tapatalk

 

 

I am just wondering, because i crash vpx a lot, but i have not run into that
but then i have not purposely tilted the table either. (I rarely tilt because that would entail actual talent at nudging)
I might have to rig up something that will purposely crash the table, and then tilt it and crash.

Might just have to take up including in my table inits an initial reset of tilt object thresholds
and movable prims start positions

 

A basic setting could again result in other problems.
As an example, I'll mention Future Spa, because of the five bumpers and two slingshots, only four bumpers and one slingshot were affected.
The other two objects still had the original values, because they did not correspond to the usual norm.
So you would have to adjust the init for each table if necessary.
And there the expenditure is probably not worthwhile with the rare occurrence. Especially since we now know how the problem is solved.
Simply reset the values and it runs again.

[gtxjoe]

Merry Christmas! Bump for VPX 10.7

[burtmacklin]

I finally bit the bullet and did an upgrade from 10.6 to 10.7.  I had the 10.6.1 install from the baller installer originally and to upgrade all I did was copy the 10.7 (x86) final minimal zip contents into my existing Visual Pinball folder and let it overwrite files and did the same for the scripts and other folders.  All works but loading tables is now much much slower.  As a test, I took the old vpinballx.exe from 10.6 and renamed it to vpinball106.exe and dropped it in the normal visual pinball folder and launched the exact same table and it loaded significantly faster just simply using the 10.6 exe.  (Nothing else is different) I know this issue has nothing to do with my hardware as my hardware is overkill and then some (i7 8700 32GB RAM and a RTX3090).  I recorded a video to show the difference. Anyone else see something like this and found a resolution?  I'm a loss.  Is there any logs anywhere that might tell me what is happening? 

 

linked to a video showing what I am seeing if that helps.

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

[jpsalas]

I finally bit the bullet and did an upgrade from 10.6 to 10.7.  I had the 10.6.1 install from the baller installer originally and to upgrade all I did was copy the 10.7 (x86) final minimal zip contents into my existing Visual Pinball folder and let it overwrite files and did the same for the scripts and other folders.  All works but loading tables is now much much slower.  As a test, I took the old vpinballx.exe from 10.6 and renamed it to vpinball106.exe and dropped it in the normal visual pinball folder and launched the exact same table and it loaded significantly faster just simply using the 10.6 exe.  (Nothing else is different) I know this issue has nothing to do with my hardware as my hardware is overkill and then some (i7 8700 32GB RAM and a RTX3090).  I recorded a video to show the difference. Anyone else see something like this and found a resolution?  I'm a loss.  Is there any logs anywhere that might tell me what is happening? 

 

linked to a video showing what I am seeing if that helps.

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

I use to have this too. The problem was that I was running VPX as an administrator. But others had this problem too and they didn't run as an administrator. Since then I have reinstalled Windows and now I can run both as an admin and as a normal user and it runs fine. I guess something in the registry didn't like 10.7. But I don't think we ever found out why 10.7 took so long to run, since actually 10.7 is a bit faster than 10.6. As you can see, during the wait the cpu does nothing, it just stays there waiting. I'll need to check the 10.7 beta thread since we discussed that there. 

[burtmacklin]

 

I finally bit the bullet and did an upgrade from 10.6 to 10.7.  I had the 10.6.1 install from the baller installer originally and to upgrade all I did was copy the 10.7 (x86) final minimal zip contents into my existing Visual Pinball folder and let it overwrite files and did the same for the scripts and other folders.  All works but loading tables is now much much slower.  As a test, I took the old vpinballx.exe from 10.6 and renamed it to vpinball106.exe and dropped it in the normal visual pinball folder and launched the exact same table and it loaded significantly faster just simply using the 10.6 exe.  (Nothing else is different) I know this issue has nothing to do with my hardware as my hardware is overkill and then some (i7 8700 32GB RAM and a RTX3090).  I recorded a video to show the difference. Anyone else see something like this and found a resolution?  I'm a loss.  Is there any logs anywhere that might tell me what is happening? 

 

linked to a video showing what I am seeing if that helps.

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

I use to have this too. The problem was that I was running VPX as an administrator. But others had this problem too and they didn't run as an administrator. Since then I have reinstalled Windows and now I can run both as an admin and as a normal user and it runs fine. I guess something in the registry didn't like 10.7. But I don't think we ever found out why 10.7 took so long to run, since actually 10.7 is a bit faster than 10.6. As you can see, during the wait the cpu does nothing, it just stays there waiting. I'll need to check the 10.7 beta thread since we discussed that there. 

 

Thanks for your notes, I poked around trying to find something on a fix on the beta thread too, but I didn't catch anything.  I really don't want to reinstall windows if I don't have to.  My machine is dedicated to vpin and I run nothing else on it, updates and virus software (defender) is all disabled.     If you find anything that might help it would be much appreciated and thanks for your reply.

[Thalamus]

Jepp. If 10.7 is slower than 10.6, it is a clear sign that something is hooking into the process in some way or another. Admin rights, teamviewer (other progs doing basically the same), anti-malware/virus program - even mouse software has been seen being the culprit. Try run "services.msc" from a cmd/run window. Shutdown services you really don't need. Also, close programs; all non essential that you've got running in the right corner/system tray. IF you find something, it is appreciated that you tell us what it was, might help the next guy out.

[burtmacklin]

Jepp. If 10.7 is slower than 10.6, it is a clear sign that something is hooking into the process in some way or another. Admin rights, teamviewer (other progs doing basically the same), anti-malware/virus program - even mouse software has been seen being the culprit. Try run "services.msc" from a cmd/run window. Shutdown services you really don't need. Also, close programs; all non essential that you've got running in the right corner/system tray. IF you find something, it is appreciated that you tell us what it was, might help the next guy out.

I have been trough and stopped everything I can and still same issue only when tables are launched via 10.7...10.6 with the same tables no issues at all..normal loading times.  So far i've found nothing that helps or resolves the issue.  I have seen several people say that saw similar issues but at this point the only resolution that was suggested was to format and reinstall windows, there has to be something else going on.  

[Thalamus]

Run process explorer from system internals. It will often give you a pointer to what you've got running and what might interfere.