333 replies to this topic

[tmek]

And, FYI, I'm a fellow midi music / daw fan.

 

What software do you use?  I'm financially challenged so I use Reaper (huge bang for the buck) and Audacity for wave editing. 

[Ben Logan]

Reaper. Love it! I also use Ableton Live.

[tmek]

Could someone tell me what the small dot and 4 numbers are shown on VPinMAME? 

 

[atarian]

Nice progress - thanks for sharing.

[Shoopity]

Could someone tell me what the small dot and 4 numbers are shown on VPinMAME? 

 

Those four numbers are the last four solenoids/Flashers/Coils that fired.  The most recent solenoid gets put on the far right, then everything shifts to the left.  Should coincide with the Driver Matrix.

 

If I had to take a guess, I would say it's a diagnostic LED found on the CPU board?  According to this article (that's a clickable link), D20 constantly flashes to indicate CPU is running.  Since this is just an emulation, it could be that D19 either isn't emulated, or it does its thing so fast we can't see it.  Just a guess.

[dyopp21]

Another nice thing would be some kind of online support. I guess in realtime is pretty hard to achive, but maybe the DMD or atleast the scores, for head to head play, or even full tournaments!

If this ever gets implemented, I see a cross-Atlantic Zany beat-down coming!    Better get that practice in now, Z. Hahahaha!

[zany]

David.....haha.....for sure, i'm in!

What about webcam as a lux meter, to automatically adjust the in game environment to the real world...wouldn't that be cool!
Both for this project and VPX.

[toxie]

i would add support to VP then if somebody wires up a brightness sensor to a cab. after all there is already the day->night slider to support that in theory.  

[zany]

True VPX almost have that support....with some tweaks in the code!
I wonder if this one would work?
http://www.ebay.co.u...OwAAOSw0HVWFUCc

[JMG]

what a great idea! automatic day/night mods

[gigalula]

Is it possible for VPX to have an options that simply take care of time and zone to automatically adjust Day-->Night slider  without the need of new hardware?  ....Well.... SIMPLE is a big word... It looks simple on my external light dimer control LOL hehehehe 

[tmek]

What about webcam as a lux meter, to automatically adjust the in game environment to the real world...wouldn't that be cool!   Both for this project and VPX.

 

This really would be a neat feature for cab owners. Just flip on or off the light switch in whatever room your cab is in and see a drastic difference in lighting on the playfield surface just like you would with a real pinball machine.  I added it to the list, that's one that shouldn't be all that hard to implement via a plugin provided I expose the environmental lighting adjustment option through the API.

 

Do any existing cab pinball games allow you to adjust the position or angle of the virtual environment lighting to more accurately reflect your real environment lighting?  That should be an (eventual) option as well.  

 

You *could* even take this farther and use the image from and high dynamic range camera to do image based lighting on the playfield...  That would make it match your real world environment extremely well.  You pair this with head tracking and 3D glasses and it would be pretty freaking amazing.  Although that would be an expensive rig.   (hmm this is giving me some other ideas though...)

Edited by tmek, 22 October 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[toxie]

You could do this with VP already, but currently it would have to be done manually.

A 'simple' setup would be to have a mirror ball hanging/standing over the real table, then taking a HDR photograph (can also be done with a standard cam and different exposures and a software package that can merge these) of the ball from above it, then converting this to a latitude/langitude map (and don't forget to rotate it so that the ground is at the bottom of the picture) and inserting that as the environment for VP.

 

EDIT: for a step-by-step tutorial, see here: http://www.ruffstuff...ges-part-1.html

So using this, you could basically create your own personal table look, matching your real world environment.

Edited by toxie, 22 October 2015 - 09:43 PM.

[tmek]

Rather than a mirror ball I was thinking more along the lines of buying a cheap 180 degree fish eye lens for cell phones like this:

 

http://www.amazon.co...ments=p_89:Mpow

 

Since you're only concerned with the top half of the environment sphere image.  You could lay the phone flat and centered on your playfield monitor looking up and set the timer to take a picture.

 

You could take multiple images.. one for night/lights out and one for day/lights on, or even multiple images for each hour of the day and blend between them.

Edited by tmek, 22 October 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[toxie]

of course, also works.. if your phone can do different (controlled) exposures..

[Ben Logan]

BAM (Better Arcade Mode) for Future Pinball allows you to adjust the virtual lighting source angle and position. Unit3d also allows for similar adjustments.

Tmek - have you seen the Kinect head tracking implementation for Future Pinball? It's really amazing. I haven't tried it in person, but it translates really well via YouTube. Honestly, I'd rather invest in a Kinect rig (or something similar like our own Randr created a while back) for virtual depth, over Oculus. Don't get me wrong, when Pinball Labs is released I'll probably decide I need BOTH, but I'm already accepting my kids are going to clown all over me the minute I strap on an Oculus!

Check this video. Just mind blowing, imho:

[zany]

Hahaha...keep it comming guys...love to see your thoughts!

[tmek]

BAM (Better Arcade Mode) for Future Pinball allows you to adjust the virtual lighting source angle and position. Unit3d also allows for similar adjustments.

Tmek - have you seen the Kinect head tracking implementation for Future Pinball? It's really amazing. I haven't tried it in person, but it translates really well via YouTube.

 

I have seen that and it does look really cool! Although several days ago in this very thread I believe someone said that it looks better in video because the lack of 3D somewhat kills the illusion in person.  However using a 3D tv with glasses ramps the effect back up to something really awesome in person.

 

I agree with you about VR vs cabs, at least for the next few years.   A cab with a 3D TV and head tracking and the right software to drive it all would give a better experience than a VR headset in just about every respect.

 

Still, there will likely be quite a few people that will own a VR headset for gaming and entertainment that won't be able to justify owning a dedicated pinball cab.

 

Over the next 5 to 10 years VR headset resolution will continue to go up and costs will go down to the point that it will be pretty compelling alternative to building a dedicated cab.

 

Retirement is looking good for us!

Edited by tmek, 22 October 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[Ben Logan]

You're right, tmek. Shoopity did indeed post a video about FP head tracking on this thread. I'd forgotten about that. Embarrassing!

I've got FP on my mind lately, as it's kind of seen by many as an underdog (alas - the physics!). But Pincade is working on a 2.0 version with much improved ball movement. It's really worth checking out.

[tmek]

I wanted to try to get proper cab view support to you guys as soon as possible.  In order to do that I have to do what's called "off axis-camera projection".  Normally this is not a big deal.  It requires modifying the view's "projection matrix" to use the four planes defined by your eye's position relative to the four edges of your display.  When programming in Direct3D or OpenGL you have complete control over the World, View and Projection matrices.  I was a little surprised to discover recently that Unreal Engine 4 does not provide access to the projection matrix out of the box (99.9% of the time game developers don't need to mess with it though).  The good news is that Unreal Engine 4 does provide complete source code for the engine so I will be able to make the required change.  It's not the "half a day" implementation I expected, but it will be the first thing on the list to complete after the Kickstarter.  

 

Secondly I wanted to post my Kickstarter bullet points below and see what you guys think... 

 

About

Pinball Labs aims to recreate the physics, visuals and fun of real world pinball as accurately as possible for the PC, Virtual Reality headsets and Virtual Pinball Cabinets.

 

Core Features

• Highly accurate pinball simulation and gameplay
• Built-in editor: Design and share your own tables!
• Plugable API for connectivity and expansion
• Designed for PC, VR headsets and Virtual Cabinets
• Unparalleled physics and visuals
• Built using Unreal Engine 4
• Tons of user settings, saved per table

API

The plugable API library provides complete, scriptable access to:

• All virtual pinball devices and displays - every lamp, switch, coil, flasher and DMD
• The real-time physics simulation - for plunger and cabinet nudging controls
• A wide assortment of real world hardware devices - such as buttons, plungers, solenoids, flashers, LEDs and DMDs
• Cameras and the projection matrix - for headtracking plugins using IR or Kinect
• A Pinball Controller abstraction interface - for connecting emulators or pinball development frameworks
• Environmental lighting controls

Funding Distribution

• 50% Programming
• 17% 3D Modeling 
• 10% 2D Artwork/Textures
•   8% Kickstarter and Payment Processor fees
•   8% Software licensing and hardware
•   5% Sound Effects/Music
•   2% Webservers and bandwidth

*With hopefully a little left over for caffeine and pizza.

 

What's Left to Do

• Editor UI
• Finalizing API and scripting
• More playfield parts and components
• More physics refinements 
• UE4 engine modifications: multiple-monitor, view matrix
• Online leaderboards
• Performance tuning
• Polish, polish and more polish

Stretch Goals!

• Pinball Device Workshop* 
• Multiplayer support with voice chat
• Stereoscopic support for 3D TVs/monitors
• Built in support for additional scripting languages
• Built in head tracking solution

*Design your own working playfield devices built from 3D models, virtual solenoids, motors, springs, switches and lights!

 

 

Edit:  I *really* want Pinball Labs to happen and I will certainly continue working on it but I'm wondering if a Kickstarter to allow me to work on it full time for six months would actually work out.  

 

I've been breaking things down in a spreadsheet trying to see what the absolute minimum I could justify working full time on Pinball Labs.  I've been putting many hours each week into it and if I continue full time I don't see me ever dropping below 60 hours per week (with the exception of Christmas holidays).  The numbers below would put me earning about $5.77 per hour ($1.50 less than minimum wage in the US). I feel the rest of the distribution values are pretty realistic.

 

Me taking 50% of the funding at $5.77 per hour would be a $18,000 Kickstarter.  That's the minimum expense level I could consider doing Pinball Labs full time.  Yet at that amount, an average pledge of $25 would require 720 people willing to pre-purchase a copy of Pinball Labs.  That seems like a high number for a niche Kickstarter with little visibility and no celebrity endorsement.  I don't think it's an issue of product value or cost, but one of getting many eyeballs on the Kickstarter.

 

I wanted to rephrase the above because it's probably coming across negative and I didn't intend it to be.   I'm absolutely going to continue working on Pinball Labs in one way or another.

 

This was just meant to be a comment that the amount for me to justify six months full time would not be a trivial number.  I want to be as transparent as possible and do things exactly how I would want someone to run a Kickstarter that I was backing.  I would want them to consider and discuss numbers like this with potential backers well before the Kickstarter begins.  I'd much rather not do a Kickstarter than be associated with one that succeeded in funding but failed to produce the product as advertised.

 

Hopefully it would be clear to potential backers that I wasn't out to take anyone for a ride, but that this would also be enough to see the project through to a solid version 1.0.  I think this amount also represents a level of interest I'd be willing to take the gamble that there would be enough future interest to make it all worth while.

 

Edited by tmek, 27 October 2015 - 01:11 AM.