4027 replies to this topic

[DBrown67]

I've been told to report here, so if it's wrong time/place don't blame me 

 

But this morning while trying out 10.7.0-133 67fe160 I found that The Getaway table (nFozzy v1.2 built with 10.4) exhibited strange behaviour in that the kickback plunger was operating all the time right from when the table first loads. Dunno if that's a fault of table or a bug in 10.7 but it plays flawlessly in 10.6.

 

EDIT:  Let me add that I simply swapped the 10.6 exe file for the new one. If I require any of the other files in the download which is causing this, then that's my fault and apologies.

Edited by DBrown67, 13 April 2021 - 01:02 PM.

[lukpcn]

I've been told to report here, so if it's wrong time/place don't blame me 

 

But this morning while trying out 10.7.0-133 67fe160 I found that The Getaway table (nFozzy v1.2 built with 10.4) exhibited strange behaviour in that the kickback plunger was operating all the time right from when the table first loads. Dunno if that's a fault of table or a bug in 10.7 but it plays flawlessly in 10.6.

 

EDIT:  Let me add that I simply swapped the 10.6 exe file for the new one. If I require any of the other files in the download which is causing this, then that's my fault and apologies.

I've just checked it on version 133. Nothing strange happens, maybe copy Scripts folder from the package too.

[Thalamus]

I've said it a couple of time already. DEVS - please compile with the new plunger feature being off. We are going to be asked this question again and again. IMO, it is better that the end user find it all on their own, being mentioned in the release info of course. To those with weir plunger and kickback. It is related to a new setting/preference under dof/keys - Enable 1st plunger retract ( turn it off ).

Edited by Thalamus, 13 April 2021 - 01:41 PM.

[goldchicco]

I've said it a couple of time already. DEVS - please compile with the new plunger feature being off. We are going to be asked this question again and again. IMO, it is better that the end user find it all on their own, being mentioned in the release info of course. To those with weir plunger and kickback. It is related to a new setting/preference under dof/keys - Enable 1st plunger retract ( turn it off ).

Thank you @Thalamus to clear this one more time

[DBrown67]

Another thing I spotted this morning... hoping it's something simple like last time. I've been running Fraps to compare fps between 10.6 and the latest 10.7.  I noticed on some tables (Goldeneye is an example) that I can get a solid 60 fps being registered by Fraps in the corner of screen. But when I press F11 that figure, and the VPX figure each drop to 50 fps. With Fraps not running VPX still reports only 50 fps when hitting F11.

 

That doesn't seem right to me. Had I not been using Fraps I'd be thinking I'm not getting 60 fps in play, but clearIy I am.

 

(Please remember I'm just an end user appreciative of all the efforts going on for this fantastic software. This entire thread is 85 pages long and filled with technical detail)

Edited by DBrown67, 13 April 2021 - 02:51 PM.

[Thalamus]

Why are you running fraps when all you have to do is press F11 after the table is loaded ? I've seen more than a few cases where VPX doesn't perform at top speed because of video drivers, video options and other software doing weird stuff. Teamviewer pr. example, not a good idea to keep running when you are not using it. Antivirus etc. etc.

[DBrown67]

Why are you running fraps when all you have to do is press F11 after the table is loaded ? I've seen more than a few cases where VPX doesn't perform at top speed because of video drivers, video options and other software doing weird stuff. Teamviewer pr. example, not a good idea to keep running when you are not using it. Antivirus etc. etc.

 

But in those cases you mention Fraps would also show a low, but correct fps. Fraps has always worked great for me for years.

 

If I go back to 10.6 and run that same table with Fraps running in the back ground both Fraps and VPX show a locked 60 fps.

 

With 10.7 Fraps does show a locked 60 fps... until I hit F11, then both Fraps and VPX show only 50. Not consistent.

Edited by DBrown67, 13 April 2021 - 03:30 PM.

[fuzzel]

I've said it a couple of time already. DEVS - please compile with the new plunger feature being off. We are going to be asked this question again and again. IMO, it is better that the end user find it all on their own, being mentioned in the release info of course. To those with weir plunger and kickback. It is related to a new setting/preference under dof/keys - Enable 1st plunger retract ( turn it off ).

Done

[NailBuster]

If we are looking at helping vpx support issues in v10.7....im constantly seeing the DISPLAY ID playfield issue that new users are always running into (windows displayIDs change on many systems).  I've mentioned before v10.6 earlier builds used primary(main display) monitor for playfield so was never a problem...that changed later in 10.6 and i regularly see daily issues with the playfield showing on peoples BG or DMD.  There's a bunch of workarounds,  reboots sometimes fix.. i even wrote a util that updates the VP registry based on main/primary monitor. but its a big support headache.

 

I can compile a new b2s that uses xpos/ypos instead of Windows DISPID because b2s also screws up for many at same time because of dispid#.,  but vpx is still an issue for many.    

 

possible solutions.   a commandline -primary to force vpx to use primary monitor for playfield.  Or a checkbox in video settings that has 'use primary display' instead of using a display#.

[wiesshund]

If we are looking at helping vpx support issues in v10.7....im constantly seeing the DISPLAY ID playfield issue that new users are always running into (windows displayIDs change on many systems)

display_reset.bat
@echo off
@echo Purging display data
reg delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers\Configuration /f
reg delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers\Connectivity /f
reg delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers\ScaleFactors /f
@echo Rebooting PC in 20 seconds
shutdown /r  /t 20

that will end all that nasty nonsense, resolves the problem for FP too

 

 

 

I can compile a new b2s that uses xpos/ypos instead of Windows DISPID

 

I mostly do that now, i just leave it on the playfield
and then offset X playfieldwidth+1

Edited by wiesshund, 13 April 2021 - 07:22 PM.

[toxie]

 

You can already, unless i am not understanding you

 

Most keys can be set in vpx under prefs in the dof /  nudge option

And some keys that fall under the direct domain of vpinmame and are not directly used by vpx can be changed in vpmkeys.vbs

 

 

Ah.. thanks!

 

Handy hint re vpmkeys.vbs - I had no idea.  Maybe we can add some text near the PinMAME buttons hinting at this?

 

I have a silly PC keyboard layout with no normal END key and it is proving difficult opening the coin door to change the volumes :-)

 

Good point. I added that hint. Thanks!

 

Why are you running fraps when all you have to do is press F11 after the table is loaded ? I've seen more than a few cases where VPX doesn't perform at top speed because of video drivers, video options and other software doing weird stuff. Teamviewer pr. example, not a good idea to keep running when you are not using it. Antivirus etc. etc.

 

But in those cases you mention Fraps would also show a low, but correct fps. Fraps has always worked great for me for years.

 

If I go back to 10.6 and run that same table with Fraps running in the back ground both Fraps and VPX show a locked 60 fps.

 

With 10.7 Fraps does show a locked 60 fps... until I hit F11, then both Fraps and VPX show only 50. Not consistent.

 

Weird. Somebody else around here with a Fraps license that could check this?

 

I've said it a couple of time already. DEVS - please compile with the new plunger feature being off. We are going to be asked this question again and again. IMO, it is better that the end user find it all on their own, being mentioned in the release info of course. To those with weir plunger and kickback. It is related to a new setting/preference under dof/keys - Enable 1st plunger retract ( turn it off ).

Done

 

I also summoned mfuegemann. Hopefully he has some hints how to be able to re-enable it by default.

[LynnInDenver]

If we are looking at helping vpx support issues in v10.7....im constantly seeing the DISPLAY ID playfield issue that new users are always running into (windows displayIDs change on many systems).  I've mentioned before v10.6 earlier builds used primary(main display) monitor for playfield so was never a problem...that changed later in 10.6 and i regularly see daily issues with the playfield showing on peoples BG or DMD.  There's a bunch of workarounds,  reboots sometimes fix.. i even wrote a util that updates the VP registry based on main/primary monitor. but its a big support headache.

 

I can compile a new b2s that uses xpos/ypos instead of Windows DISPID because b2s also screws up for many at same time because of dispid#.,  but vpx is still an issue for many.    

 

possible solutions.   a commandline -primary to force vpx to use primary monitor for playfield.  Or a checkbox in video settings that has 'use primary display' instead of using a display#.

I think it would be better to just disregard monitors, and use the "playfield then backglass then DMD" idea, and just consider the space as a whole for the most part. This will probably require finally divorcing "rotation" from the POV mode and put it into the video settings - basically making POV settings for tables rotation agnostic (which will help kill the noise of people screaming "GO LANDSCAPE IT'S TOO MUCH TROUBLE" at those of us who insist on going Portrait), although you should probably use the current Landscape paradigm as a basis for how it works. Go ahead and put the various "default sizes" in for the playfield window (1080, 2K, 4K, etc.) as well as custom settings. This might be a 10.8 sort of feature, honestly, but given the increasing nightmare of "Windows keeps reassigning the monitors if you've done anything past an initial multiple monitor setup" and registry editing to clear the problem, it's probably now overdue to revisit the monitor paradigm.

[wiesshund]

Weird. Somebody else around here with a Fraps license that could check this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have fraps license

But i do not really see any behavior different from not having fraps running
F11 always induces load, and fps will drop from it's max uncorked speed

but unless the PC can not maintain the 60 fps, it should not budge

 

[wiesshund]

 This might be a 10.8 sort of feature, honestly, but given the increasing nightmare of "Windows keeps reassigning the monitors if you've done anything past an initial multiple monitor setup" and registry editing to clear the problem, it's probably now overdue to revisit the monitor paradigm.

 

 

 

 

That is not a thing unique to VPX, windows silliness with that affects a good number of multi screen applications

but the same thing addresses it, once you have finished moving screens around, purge them and reboot once
 

Could probably put a function in VPX to do this, dont see why not.

[TerryRed]

Having a checkbox in VPX video settings that allows for "Use Primary Monitor", instead of being forced to only use the drop-down monitor ID, would go an extremely very long and completely grateful way to stop a lot of problems across the board in VP land in relation to everything the support guys deal with on a daily basis.

 

Having the "option" won't hurt anyone, and will make lots of smiles everywhere.

 

Monitor IDs suck... period. Using x / y positioning for all other apps and primary display for VPX fullscreen works every time. For noobs and veterans of the hobby.

Edited by TerryRed, 13 April 2021 - 11:43 PM.

[Robsoie]

All those mention of fraps reminded me.

In the last decades there are several games in which users noticed an increase of framerate if they were having fraps in the background (just running, not recording of course) while they were playing their game.

For some people this trick was not only a slight fps increase but a real boost.

 

Some people mentionned that having window media player in the background could produce a roughly similar effect.

Theory on why it happened was apparently related to fraps/media player disrupting (or triggering some microsoft service that would disrupt) the CPU throttling and power saving settings for some reason, explaining why framerate was somehow boosted.

 

Not having fraps and not using WMP, i have no idea if it can still have benefits on window 10, so has anyone made some test for something like this with VPX ?

Edited by Robsoie, 14 April 2021 - 07:33 AM.

[kiwi]

All those mention of fraps reminded me.

In the last decades there are several games in which users noticed an increase of framerate if they were having fraps in the background (just running, not recording of course) while they were playing their game.

For some people this trick was not only a slight fps increase but a real boost.

 

Some people mentionned that having window media player in the background could produce a roughly similar effect.

Theory on why it happened was apparently related to fraps/media player disrupting (or triggering some microsoft service that would disrupt) the CPU throttling and power saving settings for some reason, explaining why framerate was somehow boosted.

 

Not having fraps and not using WMP, i have no idea if it can still have benefits on window 10, so has anyone made some test for something like this with VPX ?

Before the arrival of the VP DX9, I was pressing the F11 for smooth play.

[toxie]

We already crank up the windows timer resolution on our own, so this is not needed for VPX or PinMAME.  

(also nowadays that trick with using other apps that do this does not work anymore, as Windows 10 by now "tries" to keep the timer resolution to its default value for each app)

 

Weird. Somebody else around here with a Fraps license that could check this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have fraps license

But i do not really see any behavior different from not having fraps running
F11 always induces load, and fps will drop from it's max uncorked speed

but unless the PC can not maintain the 60 fps, it should not budge

Interesting.. How many milliseconds (or fps) are lost when employing the F11 menu?

[DBrown67]

All those mention of fraps reminded me.

In the last decades there are several games in which users noticed an increase of framerate if they were having fraps in the background (just running, not recording of course) while they were playing their game.

For some people this trick was not only a slight fps increase but a real boost.

 

Some people mentionned that having window media player in the background could produce a roughly similar effect.

Theory on why it happened was apparently related to fraps/media player disrupting (or triggering some microsoft service that would disrupt) the CPU throttling and power saving settings for some reason, explaining why framerate was somehow boosted.

 

Not having fraps and not using WMP, i have no idea if it can still have benefits on window 10, so has anyone made some test for something like this with VPX ?

 

The only time I ever used Fraps in such a way was when playing Final Fantasy XI online long time back. When fishing on the ferry some high level fish were simply impossible to catch even with all the best equipment. By having Fraps run/record in the background some slight lag was induced which allowed a reasonable chance of success. But that was an opposite effect to what you are referring to. Any increase in fps would have made the job eve worse.

 

I've only spotted one table so far (Goldeneye) where I see Fraps dropping from 60 to 50 fps when I press F11. And remember 10.7 is doing this for me even without Fraps running at all. I'm pretty sure at a true 50 fps I'd notice the table running crappy. But when I leave F11 back to table it plays lovely (as it's back to 60 fps)

 

For reference, without vsync I'm seeing 85-90 fps with Fraps, then when I press F11 sometimes the flippers, slingshots bumpers, targets... everything disappears (including ball) but the table still "plays". (This maybe a feature supposed to be there for technical reasons. If so my bad). But when this happens VPX does show the same figure as Fraps. It's all very strange, but I'm happy to just use Fraps for now to get fps figures.

Edited by DBrown67, 14 April 2021 - 09:33 AM.

[wiesshund]

We already crank up the windows timer resolution on our own, so this is not needed for VPX or PinMAME.  

(also nowadays that trick with using other apps that do this does not work anymore, as Windows 10 by now "tries" to keep the timer resolution to its default value for each app)

 

Weird. Somebody else around here with a Fraps license that could check this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have fraps license

But i do not really see any behavior different from not having fraps running
F11 always induces load, and fps will drop from it's max uncorked speed

but unless the PC can not maintain the 60 fps, it should not budge

Interesting.. How many milliseconds (or fps) are lost when employing the F11 menu?

We are talking my GPU-less laptop
so that is probably not worth exploring
On my desktop it is probably not very noticeable

Laptop on example table, with vsync off will go from over 100fps to down to around 60 or so