159 replies to this topic

[unclewilly]

Hey jp. Have you tried these physics with the 10.8 beta?
Trying to start a table with that, but I want to use your physics as they are so less script dependent

[jpsalas]

Yes, those physics works fine with 10.8, as the physics have not changed.

[wiesshund]

Hey jp. Have you tried these physics with the 10.8 beta?
Trying to start a table with that, but I want to use your physics as they are so less script dependent

I have used them already, they work fine

Mostly you will maybe need to tinker with flipper elasticity and elasticity fall off, to adjust for your personal preference of rebound

Adjust livecatch sensitivity as needed so it does not feel like the flippers are artificially snatching the ball
 

I adjusted the EOSTorque and FullStrokeEOS_Torque, but maybe that is a just me thing.

JP's 3.02 3rd revision physics also work really well
But JP pointed out to me that most typical USB keyboards do not have great input latency, and i looked at most of mine, and they do not.
Some are beyond terrible 40+ MS between key press detected and key release detected.

And that means, you can blip the flipper fast enough to do tricks, instead of the flipper doing a 5ms blip
Its 40MS no matter how fast your fingers are

I usually play though with a logitech wired controller, and the input latency on it is really really low, it is only my crippled old hands that can be latent as hell sometimes.
What that input latency equates to is being able to do things like flipper passes well, nor Not being able to do them.

But i have some other controllers of various types, and some are not so good.
I have a so called "Zero Delay" usb controller, that blips at best around 25 to 32 ms

His new physics kind of attack that issue.
I did not understand what he found wrong with his old physics, until i tried to play using one of the keyboards with crappy input latency.

 

The new physics are cool though, it only takes a little putzing to fine tune them to your personal liking or a particular table.

[jpsalas]

JLouLouLou enhanced first the EOS values, they are now changed when they need to be changed and not like I did in my old physics. These EOS settings remove the rebound when the flippers are in the top position and the ball hits them (that was already fixed in my older physics too). They also make it easier to catch the ball when they are on its way down. And that was enough for me. I have never cared much about tip passes or tap passes as all the keyboards or USB devices have been to slow to be able to make those tricks. So my physics are more focused on the shots, that they are reliable.

 

But JLouLouLou added a little more to the script and added the possibility to do live catches a little more easier. And that is what can be changed in the script, and it is the value of LiveCatchSensivity. A value of 100 will make you an expert in live catches. A value of 50 still the flippers will catch the balls even if you don't try too hard. So I recommend a value of 25 or lower. I thought 33 was a nice value, but it is still too easy, so in the tables I have released this week I have a value of 15, which is low enough to make a live catch, but you really need to want to do a live catch

 

So, if you have a slow keyboard or USB device, then you can forget about tap passes. Tip passes works (that's when the flippers are in the top position), that is one of the benefits with the new EOS settings.

 

Here you can test you keyboard speed. If your average speed in under 10ms then it is good and you have a change to do some tap passes, although still it should be faster than that. A flipper spend about 17ms from the rest position to the top position. 

Keyboard scan rate tool

 

Anyway in VPX a tap pass can be done much better with a nudge

[wiesshund]

You havent seen me nudge

 

It isnt pretty

[jino0372]

Thanks JP for everything you do!  I'm going to give your latest physics a try with the table I am building right now.  It seems like it is pretty easy to implement.  Your elasticity test kind of sold me.  

[wiesshund]

Thanks JP for everything you do!  I'm going to give your latest physics a try with the table I am building right now.  It seems like it is pretty easy to implement.  Your elasticity test kind of sold me.  

If you want to have some fun, set the live catch sensitivity really really high
you just snatch balls out of mid air so to speak

 

It's fun for a laugh while working on the table

[jpsalas]

UPDATE Rev 3

 

4.3.0 Updated 23.06.2023

- new flipper script by JLouLouLou, since I managed to make a few mistakes when I adapted JLou script to use the flippers timer instead of a normal timer. So I actually completely broke his script

- added a new version of the AFM table with these physics for you to test.

- These physics applies to VPX 10.8 too.

 

Just test the new AFM table and see if you manage to do all kind of flipper tricks, like live catches, backhand shots, cradle separations, tap passes, tip passes, ++

[wiesshund]

 

UPDATE Rev 3

 

4.3.0 Updated 23.06.2023

- new flipper script by JLouLouLou, since I managed to make a few mistakes when I adapted JLou script to use the flippers timer instead of a normal timer. So I actually completely broke his script

- added a new version of the AFM table with these physics for you to test.

- These physics applies to VPX 10.8 too.

 

Just test the new AFM table and see if you manage to do all kind of flipper tricks, like live catches, backhand shots, cradle separations, tap passes, tip passes, ++

 

Is this change just in AFM or in the the physics as a whole?

[jpsalas]

Is a change in the physics too, as JLou script is new and better than before (even if I screwed up his last script by me changing the timer, which I made it with an interval of -1, which I thought it meant as fast as possible, but it turned out it wasn't that,, and the timer should have been with an interval of 1 )

 

His new script works wonders. It doesn't do math at all so even when the timer runs a 1 interval it doesn't hog the cpu, as the script just change the flipper parameters to simulate real flippers. OK, there is a little math, just a * to increase or decrease some values according to a variable, but that's nothing for a modern cpu, even a 20 years old cpu

 

One of my goals was to tweaks VPX flippers to work closely to the real ones, and with his script they as close as they get without rewriting the flipper physics.

 

Only JLou script is new in Rev 3, the physics material are the same, and the ball speed control is the same, in the rolling ball routine.

Edited by jpsalas, 23 June 2023 - 08:28 AM.

[wiesshund]

not math really, just a flip flop
doesnt phase my laptop, so wont phase anyone

[hitman2304]

Now i'm only waiting for tables with updated JP physics

[unclewilly]

Now i'm only waiting for tables with updated JP physics

Work8ng on a pinball magic update, switching to jp physics and scal8ng back the crazy amount of lights right now

[hitman2304]

Will You be updating Your other tables to VPX?

Edited by hitman2304, 23 June 2023 - 01:22 PM.

[unclewilly]

Time is limited right now. But yes. Slowly but surely

[jpsalas]

Now i'm only waiting for tables with updated JP physics

 

Yes, I'll be updating my tables with this flippers physics, as actually only the flipper code and the flipper properties have changed. But I wanted to update them with VPX 10.8, as there are a few differences which makes the tables to look a little different, but I wanted to wait a little more before I start. 

[toxie]

Just played a bit with the new settings, and i think these are indeed better as Rev2 (also better 'looking'), although it takes a bit to get used to it.

[jpsalas]

Just played a bit with the new settings, and i think these are indeed better as Rev2 (also better 'looking'), although it takes a bit to get used to it.

 

I have updated 4 tables with these settings, which actually only the flippers have changed But they run under VPX8  

There are a few more physics materials, mostly the ramps and ramps top are new. The ramp top material is used to those invisible ramps on top of the ramps to keep the ball from falling out of the ramps It has no friction, as they are not the meaning to change the ball physics, just kepp the ball from falling :I The rest of the materials are the same as before

[jpsalas]

UPDATE

 

4.3.1 Updated 09.07.2025

- Added more physical materials
- Increased slightly the elasticity on all the rubbers
- Changed the flipper code to make the flippers, as default, less strong and bouncy for better ball control.

 

This update simply add more physical materials for better adjusting the physical properties of the objects. 

Try the AFM table which uses these updated settings, or the Nascar tables also uploaded today.

This update is for both VPX8 and older ones too

Edited by jpsalas, 09 July 2025 - 02:05 PM.

[fourbanks]

many thanks as always, my friend