2044 replies to this topic

[japdos]

@Jeremy: totally agree with you. I know people won't agree, but my experience with VR in FX2 was the most similar to play real Pinball (and I own one of them). I know this is about propioception, ofcourse, so it is IMHO. Thank you for your contribution with pinsim by the way.

 

And I'll try to test  the DOFlinx mod ddh69 is doing too, another wonderfull job.

[3rdaxis]

 

They're multiplying...

 

How did you get multiple tables like that? Gives me an idea for a virtual front end   I primarily work in Unity with C#. I could probably learn XR programming in a few months if time permits and whip up an interface. What might be cool is having a place like the Cliff House where you can walk around to different rooms. Perhaps one room would be all Gottlieb and the tables are placed in chronological order, another room with Stern, etc. You could select a machine with the laser off the controller (I have an Odyssey+) or even use a voice command. Even gestures if that is allowed with OpenVR and WMR?

 

I am having a blast with VPX in VR. Zaccaria on Steam too.

 

You can pretty much import anything you want. I can bring in arcade games, furniture, posters anything. The size of the room however seems to be limited with the camera clipping. A virtual front end would be epic. Yea, have like a complete arcade you can walk around in, then teleport to the game you pick in a simplified room or something. I'd be down to work on that for sure. 

Edited by 3rdaxis, 02 March 2019 - 03:23 PM.

[gear323]

I completely agree as well. I used to have a full size VP cabinet with three monitors, B2S backglasses and was about to add DOF force feedback to it. When Pinball FX2 VR was released, I tried it with my Oculus Rift and instantly I decided that this is the only way Id be playing digital pinball in the future and sold my cabinet.

Obviously when I found Jeremys first video about the PinSim I was excited to get going on building one and now I have two PinSims. First one was a prototype and now I have a much more fancy one that is almost complete as well.

One thing that this VR build of VP has proved to me is how good the phisics In VP really are. Being able to play all those classics in VR and on a PinSim is really just amazing. I was surprised how well this works without making changes to the tables. Ive followed the advice here and adjusted the bloom and some other visual settings on the tables that needed it and that also makes a big difference with the visuals.

Has anyone dialed in the nuddging settings in VP to work well with the PinSim yet? If so can you share your settings so I can give them a try?

Im really looking forward to future updates to this as well as the Ximput mod and VR table updates as the work in progress pictures a few pages back look awesome.

Thanks to everyone that finally made this happen and that is a long list of probably well over a hundred people over the years.

The wait for higher resolution VR headsets to be released just got 2x harder.

Edited by gear323, 02 March 2019 - 03:45 PM.

[3rdaxis]

Yea I can honestly say I see very little reason to go all out building a pincab after trying this. For one the lack of any latency and framerate is through the roof because of the Oculus rift so it plays fast and accurately. Plus it's completely 3d. Having a pin-stubby with force feedback is all I need;) And REAL force feedback with real assembly's real flipper, pop bumpers and knockers. :)

Edited by 3rdaxis, 02 March 2019 - 03:47 PM.

[hlr53]

 

I didnt Im just not getting any output via vpx to the rift. I can see I would need to play with that as the table is up higher than on the monitor but I can see it on the monitor. Rift is just displaying a grey world with a ground plane grid and that menu with the clock etc. I wondering if it is because I dont have the hand controllers and some further setup is needed in that menu on the rift

Did you look around a bit? For the first time the table was behind me.

Maybe you should also try another table. I found 2 or 3 tables that doesnt work for me.

 

Just tried it out with an Odyssey+ on an i7-6700K with MSI GTX1080. SteamVR. I did not overclock the GPU and had no performance issues playing JP's Elvis. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED everyone try Elvis.
 
Question. What are good VR Table X, Table Y and Table Height settings under video preferences? I threw these numbers in there having NO clue on what I am doing. I don't know what the axis' are referenced from?
 
X=100
Y=50
Height=50
 
I ended up playing on the floor a little behind my chair and to the right of the monitor to get the table in front of me. Just used keyboard controls. Pretty cool. I've been playing Zaccarria tables. Also HIGHLY recommended.

The values are important for Rift and Vive users. They tell the tables position according to the players position (as tracked in steambr), I think. The odyssey has no external tracking sensors. So I guess these values arent too important for you. As long as you have a good position to play, dont change anything.

Yes, Elvis is thrilling as pretty much everything from this guy (I played so far).

 

 

With the Odyssey+ and WMR the X/Y/H numbers are important. I'm running an unbounded room because I stay seated.

 

I have the tables adjusted so I can sit at my desk and use my keyboard on the edge using the shift buttons for the flippers and Z key for the plunger (makes it easy to reach for it in "the dark").

 

X -30  (moves table left or right)

Y 150 (moves table closer or away from me)

H 80   (perfect height for me sitting at desk)

 

These work for my set up.

 

Also, I was getting a lot of shimmering on the tables. I adjusted the Steam Applications Resolution Adjustment (AKA supersampling??) from 100 to 300% (and in between) and the shimmering went away.

On some tables like Dr Dude it kills the frame rate. I have to back it down to 100. This on a i7-6700K /GTX1060 3 gig laptop. I could overclock the GPU using MSI Afterburner or Palit Thundermaster but haven't yet. On Elvis 200% works fine. 

 

My problem is the tables look covered in Vasoline the farther out I look on the table because I'm wearing my specially made glasses for PC use (actually tri focal lenses that are blurry past 10 feet). They don't work terribly well in VR.

My regular glasses are too big and I don't want to scratch them or the HMD lenses. I'm ordering prescription inserts after my annual eye exam in March. I'm old - probably need a RX tweek. The tables are still a blast to play though!

[3rdaxis]

Something like this... 

[gear323]

Yea I can honestly say I see very little reason to go all out building a pincab after trying this. For one the lack of any latency and framerate is through the roof because of the Oculus rift so it plays fast and accurately. Plus it's completely 3d. Having a pin-stubby with force feedback is all I need;) And REAL force feedback with real assembly's real flipper, pop bumpers and knockers. :)

Yeah the 3D in VR along with low latency 6
degrees of freedom head tracking really make VR the best way to be able to aim your shots properly. Playing on a virtual flat monitor cabinet cant compare at all in my opinion.

As for the PinSim, I really find that it is awesome. The only issue I have is that it takes a little more time and skill to build than many pinball fans may have. Hopefully someone starts building and selling these (I believe Jeremy has mentioned that he does not have interest in selling them himself) or something very similar in the future. The experience is just too awesome for it to be limited to people who have the time, skill and patience to build one themselves.

Edited by gear323, 02 March 2019 - 04:25 PM.

[blindpeser]

Would be nice if you could share your progress on the walls. I tried primitives and targets and they stand well. But I wasnt able to put textures on it. Plus they make the backglass invisible.

[gear323]

As far as PinSims I have found on the internet, this is my favorite one. I like that it is a little larger so it does not tip over as easily when nuddging and the fact that it is set up to also work with Mame in VR or without VR so you can play arcade games as well as pinball with it. Since the PinSim emulates the Dpad on a Xbox controller as well as it has the option to easily swap the controls with a button combination so that the arcade stick controlls the left analog stick instead, you can play a huge library of PC games with it as well.

The decals, real lockdown bar, rails and coin door are also great! The only thing that I would change is to put the standard street fighter 6 button layout to the right of the arcade stick so that it could support many more arcade games.

My hope is that one day we could use one of these in VR and teleport or walk up to any pinball table or any Arcade machine and play it with the proper controls all from one VR virtual arcade and one controller that does it all.

https://imgur.com/a/CTC5mwa

https://imgur.com/a/BEVB0VI

https://imgur.com/a/JT4gjum

https://imgur.com/a/UoNDzJr

So which professional cabinet builder is going to start to offer these for sale first?


.

Edited by gear323, 02 March 2019 - 04:35 PM.

[3rdaxis]

I've got my plans...     

I most definitely plan on using real pinball assembly's (flipper's, pop's, knocker's, etc) since I don't have to worry about them shocking a monitor why wouldn't you use the real deal.

Edited by 3rdaxis, 02 March 2019 - 04:28 PM.

[gear323]

Pinball FX2 is already pretty amazing in VR. Now that Zen studios also has the licenses for the Williams / Bally tables it is probably only a matter of time before they support VR and they do some really great work.

The reason I mention this is in order to play their game with a PinSim, you need to have an arcade stick so that you can select the tables and navigate the menus as they only support an Xbox gamepad or VR controllers.

Edited by gear323, 02 March 2019 - 04:30 PM.

[RYSr]

Been trying some more tables in VR. The DMD worked in these:

LOTR

JP's Ironman

TZ

Elvis

Batman DK

 

However on:

Black Rose, Johnny Mnemonic and TSPP

the VR HMD  screen blinks the image on and off every second, and on the PC screen the table seems to be moving position slightly with the HMD still.

I'm using the Vive HMD

Can some one else please try these tables and see if they get the same reaction?

Edited by RYSr, 02 March 2019 - 05:59 PM.

[gear323]

I've got my plans...     
I most definitely plan on using real pinball assembly's (flipper's, pop's, knocker's, etc) since I don't have to worry about them shocking a monitor why wouldn't you use the real deal.

Ok. That does sound pretty darn cool. Would even be fun to watch form the outside.

I think future compatibility with Pinball FX3 is going to be important though. The Williams and Bally tables they released so far play and look really great. If you dont want a arcade joystick on this, maybe you could map four arcade buttons on the side of the cabinet to the dpad so that you could navigate the menus in agames.

Edited by gear323, 02 March 2019 - 04:43 PM.

[Caligula_]

Sorry guys for the long silence I had to do a lot of other stuff and not even time to read the thread here, but I hope I can do some coding and bugfixing the next days.

 

+1 for recenter button, what tables do people think look the best with the custom VP version?

 

Seems to very popular. I'll see if I can add this.

 

 

Hi Caligula_

 

I tried a build in VS2017 with today's SourceForge VPR snapshot, I had to install the XP for C++ extension first before the solution would load. The build failed with a lot of linker errors. I am not a C++ programmer (yet). 

 

[snip]

 

86 linker errors

 

EDIT 28 Feb 2019: My bad. I had build set for x64 (so used to that setting for my Unity C# projects). Switched to x86 build and it compiled fine.

 

>Done building project "VisualPinball.net2017.vcxproj".

========== Build: 1 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========

 

 

I can  try to get the x64 build working, but as far as I know the normal VPX installation uses 32 bit and Pinmame needs the same architecture as the VPX I thought 32bit should be fine.

 

Table will fail to load if SCSP reflections are turned on.  Do you think this will ever get merged into the Normal VPX builds?

 

Tables should not fail while loading since the reflection setting should be ignored by the VR/OpenGL version. The reason is simply, because OpenGL does not support clipping planes which are needed for the table reflection on the playfield. Also it costs a lot of performance, so I thought disabling it is OK. I will reimplement reflections later to work with OpenGL.

 

@Slydog43  @Toxie .... sorry...I'm lost what are you talking about...

Which sources have you been merged with? Are you keeping another VR project?

 

I'm not only using VPX code for VPVR, Toxie and Fuzzel are also porting code back to VPX. Thats one of the big benefits of open-source.

 

They're multiplying...

 

Nice. How did you do that? And where can I get the models and textures for the tables? I was planning to add this natively to VPVR to have a cabinet around the table.

 

I have no luck with my WMR headset and the RX580. The vpin window on the main monitor shows the table running but no image in the VR preview window and on the VR headset. It just turns black once I start the table.

Any ideas?

 

Matty, what graphics card do You have with Your Lenovo WMR headset?

 

Unfortunatelly I don't have a AMD card to test, but I found a similar problem description for Google Earth VR: https://www.reddit.c..._black_screen/ Updating to driver version 18.12.2 (or newer) fixed the problem there.

[3rdaxis]

Sorry guys for the long silence I had to do a lot of other stuff and not even time to read the thread here, but I hope I can do some coding and bugfixing the next days.

 

+1 for recenter button, what tables do people think look the best with the custom VP version?

 

Seems to very popular. I'll see if I can add this.

 

 

Hi Caligula_

 

I tried a build in VS2017 with today's SourceForge VPR snapshot, I had to install the XP for C++ extension first before the solution would load. The build failed with a lot of linker errors. I am not a C++ programmer (yet). 

 

[snip]

 

86 linker errors

 

EDIT 28 Feb 2019: My bad. I had build set for x64 (so used to that setting for my Unity C# projects). Switched to x86 build and it compiled fine.

 

>Done building project "VisualPinball.net2017.vcxproj".

========== Build: 1 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========

 

 

I can  try to get the x64 build working, but as far as I know the normal VPX installation uses 32 bit and Pinmame needs the same architecture as the VPX I thought 32bit should be fine.

 

Table will fail to load if SCSP reflections are turned on.  Do you think this will ever get merged into the Normal VPX builds?

 

Tables should not fail while loading since the reflection setting should be ignored by the VR/OpenGL version. The reason is simply, because OpenGL does not support clipping planes which are needed for the table reflection on the playfield. Also it costs a lot of performance, so I thought disabling it is OK. I will reimplement reflections later to work with OpenGL.

 

@Slydog43  @Toxie .... sorry...I'm lost what are you talking about...

Which sources have you been merged with? Are you keeping another VR project?

 

I'm not only using VPX code for VPVR, Toxie and Fuzzel are also porting code back to VPX. Thats one of the big benefits of open-source.

 

They're multiplying...

 

Nice. How did you do that? And where can I get the models and textures for the tables? I was planning to add this natively to VPVR to have a cabinet around the table.

 

I have no luck with my WMR headset and the RX580. The vpin window on the main monitor shows the table running but no image in the VR preview window and on the VR headset. It just turns black once I start the table.

Any ideas?

 

Matty, what graphics card do You have with Your Lenovo WMR headset?

 

Unfortunatelly I don't have a AMD card to test, but I found a similar problem description for Google Earth VR: https://www.reddit.c..._black_screen/ Updating to driver version 18.12.2 (or newer) fixed the problem there.

Once we release TAF I will ask Sliderpoint if he minds releasing this VR version for you guys to try out. Soon. All the models and textures will be ion the file including the other cabinets and the room itself. 

 

I've got my plans...     
I most definitely plan on using real pinball assembly's (flipper's, pop's, knocker's, etc) since I don't have to worry about them shocking a monitor why wouldn't you use the real deal.

Ok. That does sound pretty darn cool. Would even be fun to watch form the outside.

I think future compatibility with Pinball FX3 is going to be important though. The Williams and Bally tables they released so far play and look really great. If you dont want a arcade joystick on this, maybe you could map four arcade buttons on the side of the cabinet to the dpad so that you could navigate the menus in agames.

 

Perhaps but for now I'm only planning on using it for VP. Besides I'm sure there will be a way to navigate any menu's in FX with the magna-save and existing button's. Defiantly don't want a joystick sticking out of the top of the cab. I'd rather have a clear surface to lay a keyboard or the rift on without worrying about hitting any button's. 

Edited by 3rdaxis, 02 March 2019 - 04:52 PM.

[RYSr]

For the tables that don't display the DMD in the VR headset:

 

I have a cut-down version of the code that, blindpeser posted earlier (Some tables were getting an error about the table1 entry) in the code.

 

First add a textbox:

 

Select the textbox object button in the editor and place it anywhere on the backdrop of the loaded table (it's position or size seem to make no difference on the VR display). Click on the textbox and in the options pane, Type in Caps DMD into the physics section text entry, in the colors and formatting section select the text color you want for the VR display. None of the other options seem to make a difference.

 

Then in the script:

Paste this code just Above/Before the load VPM  statement:

 

Dim UseVPMDMD
    UseVPMDMD = true

Check that .Hidden = 0 in the table init section. The VPM display will show up in the VR HMD as well as on the PC Screen

 

Or use this instead:

Dim VarHidden, UseVPMDMD
    UseVPMDMD = true
      VarHidden = 1

.Hidden = VarHidden (in the table init section) and the display will only show up in the VR HMD
 

It worked so far on POTC.Avatar,IJ,Demoman (The hand grips show up in the VR rendering),NBAFB. Metallica.

Edited by RYSr, 02 March 2019 - 05:53 PM.

[hlr53]

As far as PinSims I have found on the internet, this is my favorite one. I like that it is a little larger so it does not tip over as easily when nuddging and the fact that it is set up to also work with Mame in VR or without VR so you can play arcade games as well as pinball with it. Since the PinSim emulates the Dpad on a Xbox controller as well as it has the option to easily swap the controls with a button combination so that the arcade stick controlls the left analog stick instead, you can play a huge library of PC games with it as well.

The decals, real lockdown bar, rails and coin door are also great! The only thing that I would change is to put the standard street fighter 6 button layout to the right of the arcade stick so that it could support many more arcade games.

My hope is that one day we could use one of these in VR and teleport or walk up to any pinball table or any Arcade machine and play it with the proper controls all from one VR virtual arcade and one controller that does it all.

https://imgur.com/a/CTC5mwa

https://imgur.com/a/BEVB0VI

https://imgur.com/a/JT4gjum

https://imgur.com/a/UoNDzJr

So which professional cabinet builder is going to start to offer these for sale first?


.

 

Where's the beer holders?    Now that I think about it, kind of hard to drink a beer wearing a HMD. 

 

The graphics on the one are phenomenal!

 

One could keep the project really cheap and forgo the printing, real pinball legs and metal lockdown bar and sides. But, I know how OCD everyone around here is - LOL. Paging Mr Bowman - get ready for more air release vinyl orders. Paging Stuzza....

 

For the guts one could use Jeremy's design or go with MJR's Pinscape. I'm kind of in Jeremy's camp when it comes to the plunger. Don't get me wrong. I like the Williams plunger in my cab but it never really knocked my socks off vs a large

Launch button. Now leaf switches for the flippers are an absolute MUST!

 

And Wie Ghets to Caligula_ !

[gear323]

I agree with the leaf switches. Jeremy made it so the PinSim can support dual contact leaf switches. In pinball FX3 they work perfectly. For example I can press my flipper button in about 25% and the lower flipper activates but on tables that also have upper flippers I can activate the upper flippers by pressing the button further. Works great!

Im in the camp of people that really love the real plunger however. In VR I even sometimes just admire how well it works by slowly pulling in back and fourth and watching it match up 1:1 on my VR table. Lol. I find in VR it really adds a lot to the realism

Edited by gear323, 02 March 2019 - 05:43 PM.

[RYSr]

 

 

They're multiplying...

 

How did you get multiple tables like that? Gives me an idea for a virtual front end   I primarily work in Unity with C#. I could probably learn XR programming in a few months if time permits and whip up an interface. What might be cool is having a place like the Cliff House where you can walk around to different rooms. Perhaps one room would be all Gottlieb and the tables are placed in chronological order, another room with Stern, etc. You could select a machine with the laser off the controller (I have an Odyssey+) or even use a voice command. Even gestures if that is allowed with OpenVR and WMR?

 

I am having a blast with VPX in VR. Zaccaria on Steam too.

 

You can pretty much import anything you want. I can bring in arcade games, furniture, posters anything. The size of the room however seems to be limited with the camera clipping. A virtual front end would be epic. Yea, have like a complete arcade you can walk around in, then teleport to the game you pick in a simplified room or something. I'd be down to work on that for sure. 

 

 

I tried 3DArcade front end many years ago, It was a bear to setup and add tables. But you could add cabinet art, backglass and playfield art to the images, and had different room layouts, some bi level. I just don't remember where I found the artwork.

http://www.mameworld.info/3darcade/

Attached Files

•  3darcade34.jpg   248.16KB   9 downloads
•  3darcade38.jpg   94.54KB   9 downloads

[hlr53]

For the tables that don't display the DMD in the VR headset:

 

I have a cut-down version of the code that, blindpeser posted earlier (Some tables were getting an error about the table1 entry) in the code.

 

First add a textbox:

 

Select the textbox object button in the editor and place it anywhere on the backdrop of the loaded table (it's position or size seem to make no difference on the VR display). Click on the textbox and in the options pane, Type in Caps DMD into the physics section text entry, in the colors and formatting section select the text color you want for the VR display. None of the other options seem to make a difference.

 

Then in the script:

Paste this code just Above/Before the load VPM  statement:

 

Dim UseVPMDMD
    UseVPMDMD = true

Check that .Hidden = 0 in the table init section. The VPM display will show up in the VR HMD as well as on the PC Screen

 

Or use this instead:

Dim VarHidden, UseVPMDMD
    UseVPMDMD = true
      VarHidden = 1

.Hidden = VarHidden (in the table init section) and the display will only show up in the VR HMD
 

It worked so far on POTC.Avatar,IJ,Demoman (The hand grips show up in the VR rendering),NBAFB. Metallica.

 

Just tried it on POTC and it worked perfectly. Bookmarked this page. Love these multi-level tables in VR. 

 

Many thanks!

 

--Harry