975 replies to this topic

[Drybonz]

My pinscape controller has started causing the pinball to move very slowly, like in slow motion... and even make the ball stop in the middle of the table.  If I unplug the controller everything is fine, but the same problems happen when I plug it back in.  How would I fix this problem?

 

Thanks for the help.

 

*edit*  Actually, just figured it out... had to raise the deadzone setting in VP.  Not sure why this started happening randomly, but this seems to have fixed it.

 

I'm having a repeat of this problem, except the ball is rolling hard to the left instead of rolling against gravity.  I don't want to just keep upping the dead zone as it is usually working fine, and if there might be some other fix for this.  Do I need to calibrate the pinscape somehow?

 

Thanks for any advice  you can offer.

[mjr]

 

My pinscape controller has started causing the pinball to move very slowly, like in slow motion... and even make the ball stop in the middle of the table.  If I unplug the controller everything is fine, but the same problems happen when I plug it back in.  How would I fix this problem?

 

Thanks for the help.

 

*edit*  Actually, just figured it out... had to raise the deadzone setting in VP.  Not sure why this started happening randomly, but this seems to have fixed it.

 

I'm having a repeat of this problem, except the ball is rolling hard to the left instead of rolling against gravity.  I don't want to just keep upping the dead zone as it is usually working fine, and if there might be some other fix for this.  Do I need to calibrate the pinscape somehow?

 

You shouldn't have to use the dead zone in VP at all.  And you don't have to calibrate anything - it's self-calibrating.  Whenever the accelerometer reads at rest for about ten seconds straight, the software automatically takes that as the zero point.  

 

Did you ever calibrate with the Windows joystick control panel?  If so, you should delete that calibration data - it's probably the problem.  What's going on is that you let Windows record a calibration zero point that's not the true zero point, so every time the Pinscape software auto-calibrates back to a true zero, Windows "corrects" it with the fixed offset it recorded when you calibrated.  That'll manifest as a constant drift.  I suspect that's what you're seeing, because this thing should never show that kind of drift as long as you don't let Windows try to "help".

 

To delete the Windows calibration data, open the "set up Windows USB game controllers" control panel, double-click the Pinscape Controller entry, go to the Settings tab, and click "Reset to default".

 

If that doesn't fix it, make sure you have the physical mounting so that it's reasonable stable when at rest.  It has to be fairly stable for the auto calibration to kick in.  I recall that you have this in a desktop enclosure, so that might not be as stable as a regular cabinet installation, but I think it should still be good enough as long as the KL25Z is mounted securely within the enclosure and the enclosure is heavy enough that it sits still when you're not manipulating it.

[Drybonz]

Thanks for the quick reply, mjr.  I don't remember doing the calibration in Windows, but I went into the pinscape settings and clicked reset to default anyway... it didn't do anything and the behavior still remains, so it doesn't look like that was the problem.  This also just started after a period where it was working perfectly... I know I didn't run the Windows calibration in that time, and pretty sure never at all.

 

However, I did notice that in the Pinscape controller dialog the "crosshair" was trembling slightly as if it were detecting a constant motion, even though the controller (you were right my pinscape is mounted in a desktop controller) is perfectly still.  The enclosure is quite heavy and still... it shouldn't be registering movement... but I guess that is why it is not auto-calibrating.

[Drybonz]

Is it possible an xbox one controller being plugged in at the same time could cause a conflict?  I unplugged my xbox controller and my pinscape controller seems to be back to normal for now.

 

*edit*  NM... doesn't seem to have fixed it.

Edited by Drybonz, 07 August 2016 - 10:50 AM.

[mjr]

Thanks for the quick reply, mjr.  I don't remember doing the calibration in Windows, but I went into the pinscape settings and clicked reset to default anyway... it didn't do anything and the behavior still remains, so it doesn't look like that was the problem.  This also just started after a period where it was working perfectly... I know I didn't run the Windows calibration in that time, and pretty sure never at all.

 

However, I did notice that in the Pinscape controller dialog the "crosshair" was trembling slightly as if it were detecting a constant motion, even though the controller (you were right my pinscape is mounted in a desktop controller) is perfectly still.  The enclosure is quite heavy and still... it shouldn't be registering movement... but I guess that is why it is not auto-calibrating.

 

Is it reasonably close to centered when at rest, at least?  The auto calibration tolerates a little random jitter - the accelerometer is very sensitive so it'll generally register some environmental vibration even when everything's at rest.

 

You can test that the auto-calibration is happening as follows.  Open the joystick control panel so that you can observe the position of the crosshairs.  Put something (maybe about an inch thick) under one side of your enclosure so that the enclosure is tilted up.  The crosshairs will move off center on the axis of the tilt because gravity is now pointing at an angle relative to the board.  Leave it sitting still for about 10-20 seconds.  The crosshairs should jump back to the center position when the calibration occurs.  You'll still see some random jitter, but you should be able to see the clear offset when it's tilted and then the clear jump back to center.  If you take the prop out and let the enclosure sit flat again, the same thing should now happen in reverse.

 

If the calibration isn't occurring, maybe the enclosure isn't providing a stable enough platform after all.  You might try seeing if you can find a better way to bolt down the KL25Z so that it's solidly fastened to the enclosure and doesn't experience any vibration on its mounting.

 

 

Is it possible an xbox one controller being plugged in at the same time could cause a conflict?  I unplugged my xbox controller and my pinscape controller seems to be back to normal for now.

 

*edit*  NM... doesn't seem to have fixed it.

 

I think that VP essentially sums the inputs from all joysticks, so yes, if another joystick is also present in the system that's feeding in non-zero X/Y values, that will do it.

Edited by mjr, 07 August 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[Drybonz]

Thanks mjr, I have the other controller unplugged now and I'm going to look at how I have the pinscape mounted to see if I can improve that at all.

[jukedock]

Purely out of interest - how many people use the potentiometer OR the photo cell/light source method??

I ended up using the pot - I think its accurate and tidy.

The photocell seems to be a lot of messing around too - the pot only needs three cables and no bright light under the playfield.

 

I used one of these for my pot mounting (you can buy just the bracket if you wish).
http://www.vpin-shop.../Products/50024

http://www.vpin-shop.../Products/50025

Obviously that is a great place for european VP members as other countries will be liable for tax when it lands! 

 

[Drybonz]

I'm pretty sure I have my problems sorted out... I have the board in one of the plastic hard shell enclosures they sell for them, and it looks like the way I had it mounted, the chip, inside, was upside down... so, I found a way to mount it that fixes that and also seems to now have it very level.  I started a new test table and put a ball on it with zero slope and it looks like I have no drift now.  Hopefully, it doesn't start up again like before... but I think the physical fix should be what I needed.

 

Thanks, mjr, for the help with answering my questions.

[firebrand007]

hi MJR,
After enjoying for some time your great sofware (v2) to nudge in VP, I also switched to its button encoding features (from a xin-mo usb controller, I deactivated the pilot) and had a plunger installed with a potentiometer.

Unfortunately, I have had 2 weird issues, hopefully you can help me out to identify solutions :

1) When I enable zb launch button in the pinscape tool (I tried by creating a virtual port 32, then by assigning it to port 22) and put the corresponding port in dof config ( I use Dof rev 3 official, not your patched version), heres what happened :
- First the KL kept rebooting non stop, till I deactivated it from the config panel and reactivated / reverted to no ZBlaunch, and rebooted
- Now the KL works fine, however if I try again to activate ZB launch
Pinballx will refuse to launch and VP tables will stuck on « scripts loading » if I try to launch them individually

2) Before I started tweaking around , I had regular access to menu options in the tool and managed to do a plunger calibration. Now, however, when I try do another calibration I see the calibration page opening and closing nearly instantaneously and if I insist it opens an internet explorer page that cant't be displayed (https://ps/plungerconfig?id=xxxxxx)

Any ideas ?

Edited by firebrand007, 09 August 2016 - 04:29 PM.

[mjr]

1) When I enable zb launch button in the pinscape tool (I tried by creating a virtual port 32, then by assigning it to port 22) and put the corresponding port in dof config ( I use Dof rev 3 official, not your patched version), heres what happened :
- First the KL kept rebooting non stop, till I deactivated it from the config panel and reactivated / reverted to no ZBlaunch, and rebooted
- Now the KL works fine, however if I try again to activate ZB launch
Pinballx will refuse to launch and VP tables will stuck on « scripts loading » if I try to launch them individually

2) Before I started tweaking around , I had regular access to menu options in the tool and managed to do a plunger calibration. Now, however, when I try do another calibration I see the calibration page opening and closing nearly instantaneously and if I insist it opens an internet explorer page that cant't be displayed (https://ps/plungerconfig?id=xxxxxx)

Any ideas ?

 

My guess about why all of the PC-side software is going haywire is that the device is sending the Enter key over and over.  The default ZB Launch setting is to send the Enter key whenever you press the plunger forward, so if the plunger isn't calibrated properly, it might be sending Enter keys continuously.  That might explain why the dialogs won't stay open, PBX won't work, etc.

 

You might try reconfiguring ZB launch to use a joystick button instead.  Having joystick buttons pressed or not won't bother any of the PC-side software, so it'll make it easier to troubleshoot things.

 

Next, make sure the plunger is calibrated properly via the Piscape setup, not the Windows joystick control panel.  The probably reason for the constant stream of Enter keys (if that is indeed what's going on) is that the plunger calibration isn't zeroed.  The firmware sends an Enter key when you press forward on the plunger, so if the calibration isn't right, the software can think it's always pressed forward and so keeps sending Enter keys contstantly.

 

> I tried by creating a virtual port 32, then by assigning it to port 22

 

Not sure I understand - do you mean you assigned it to port 32?  Make certain that the assigning in your DOF config is ZB Launch Ball, NOT ordinary Launch Ball.  And make certain that the port number assignment for ZB Launch Ball in your DOF config is identical to the one in your Pinscape config.

[hlr53]

ARGH! Being stubborn I tried to flash using Windows 10. Of course, it didn't work. But, really stellar instructions MJR!

 

Hopefully, the IT department at work will let me attach the KL25Z and drag and drop the 2 Permido files inside a Windows 7 virtual machine. We have 500 of them running for remote medical coders so they are experts at making them. I don't think anyone has a WIndows 7 machine running any longer.

Edited by hlr53, 09 August 2016 - 11:25 PM.

[Drybonz]

ARGH! Being stubborn I tried to flash using Windows 10. Of course, it didn't work. But, really stellar instructions MJR!

 

Hopefully, the IT department at work will let me attach the KL25Z and drag and drop the 2 Permido files inside a Windows 7 virtual machine. We have 500 of them running for remote medical coderrs so they are experts at running them. I don't think anyone has a WIndows 7 machine running any longer.

 

I had this same problem earlier in the thread... it's great once you get it set up, but it's a real pain since it can't be done on a modern Windows.  Once you get it done you don't have to worry about it any more though.

[firebrand007]

Thanks for your advice and suggestions. I'm happy to report that no longer are pinballx or vp stuck since I assigned ZB launch ball to the button I use to launch balls.
Regarding ports I meant I had tried two different ports , one after the other, but it did match the dof config port (and yes, ZB launch ball). It's not working for now, I need to do some further digging but it's not a big issue.

Unfortunately I'm still not seeing the calibration page (closes instantly/tries to launch IE11)

Edited by firebrand007, 10 August 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[Pete248]

So far didn't find an answer ....

 

Can I add RGB LED stripes (not the addressable ones) to create an Ambilight? I think there are already commands in DOF to change the Ambilight color when I select a table in PBX. But do they work with the Pinscape?

[hlr53]

 

ARGH! Being stubborn I tried to flash using Windows 10. Of course, it didn't work. But, really stellar instructions MJR!

 

Hopefully, the IT department at work will let me attach the KL25Z and drag and drop the 2 Permido files inside a Windows 7 virtual machine. We have 500 of them running for remote medical coderrs so they are experts at running them. I don't think anyone has a WIndows 7 machine running any longer.

 

I had this same problem earlier in the thread... it's great once you get it set up, but it's a real pain since it can't be done on a modern Windows.  Once you get it done you don't have to worry about it any more though.

 

Yeah, I bricked it but the boot loader works. Even if it didn't I may be able to bring it back from the dead. I was wondering last night why it would work in 7 but not 8/8.1/10? Something to do with a USB port change or was it a firmware bug?

 

Apparently, Microsoft has changed how they poll/communicate to MSD - mass storage devices starting in Windows 8. They may have added indexing (among other things?) for a quicker search of the device on a network. Not really sure? (Don't get me started on database indexing and the staggering amount of software incompetence causing network searches to last 20 secs vs 20ms but I digress....). Anyway, if you have a controller with the boot loader version below 1.11, it hasn't been updated to reflect the Windows MSD communications change. Not a bug per se but a lack of new firmware for older devices. This has POed a lot of people in the embedded community. Level (one I imagine) tech support at the manufacturer says go find a Win 7 or XP machine. Yeah, thanks dude! I found this video last night. I haven't watched the whole thing and I'm at work now. I will watch at home tonight and may try on an old Gateway system, which is my possible donor for my pinball cab once I upgrade the PSU and add a PCI E 16 card.

 

I JUST remembered this morning we have an old laptop laying around with XP on it but I haven't powered it up in 3 years. Guess I will see if it still works?

 

I apologize if all this has been brought up before. I need to find time to read the whole thread.

 

 

https://mcuoneclipse...ndows_8_and_10/

 

 

 

Edited by hlr53, 10 August 2016 - 11:26 AM.

[mjr]

 

Yeah, I bricked it but the boot loader works. Even if it didn't I may be able to bring it back from the dead. I was wondering last night why it would work in 7 but not 8/8.1/10? Something to do with a USB port change or was it a firmware bug?

 

Apparently, Microsoft has changed how they poll/communicate to MSD - mass storage devices starting in Windows 8.

 

https://mcuoneclipse...ndows_8_and_10/

 

Hopefully your KL25Z isn't actually bricked.  I haven't seen one actually damaged by attempting to update the boot loader from Win 8/10 - the boot loader update just seems to harmlessly fail in every case I've seen.  If it's continuing to appear as a thumb drive on the Windows desktop when you unplug it and plug it back in, it's definitely not bricked.

 

My understanding agrees with what you found, that the problem has to do with extra writes that Windows 8/10 is doing when you connect the drive.  The old version of the boot loader mistakes these writes as a binary file download, so they prevent a subsequent actual file download from being properly recognized.  It's entirely plausible that the extra writes are solely related to volume indexing, but this is the first time I've seen anyone claim to know the actual details.  Up to now the most detailed description I've seen is the tech notes from the Freescale engineers where they say that extra writes are occurring but offer no details about the nature of the extra writes, and they also didn't have any suggested workaround.

 

If you (or anyone else) test out that workaround you referenced, please let me know if it goes for you.  If I can get some independent confirmation that it works, I'll include the advice in the config tool instructions.  It would be fantastic to have a Windows 8/10 workaround, but I'm hesitant to include this procedure without some independent confirmation that it works repeatably.  The author of the blog posting didn't sound all that confident, and it doesn't look like he tested it more than once, so I think there's a good chance there could be other variables.

[Joppnl]

Hello,

 

first a big word of thanks for Mike for this great project.

 

second: I tried to update the KLZ with te latest software, didn't work, accidently hit the  reset button while pluggin the usb cable in so I had to set it up from the beginning:

 

In my case (and may-be yours...):  don't try to update the firmware with the unit connected to a USB3 port but use a USB2: on a USB2 port everything is fine.

 

Running the KLZ and Pinscape software in normal running mode works fine on a USB3 port but I have to enable the auto reset after x seconds in the configurator

 

 

Third: Does anyone use the nudge-capability together with DOF-actuators?

 

I have 8 actuators in the cab and the KLZ is solidly mounted to the floor of the cab where normally the coin-box is (tried other locations as well) but when a solenoid fires the ball goes all directions making it impossible to play.

 

Anyone experience this also? And, found a solution?

 

I think it's normal for the KLZ to believe the shocks of the actuators are 'nudges' but in VP-real it makes a table unplayable

 

Thank you!

[hlr53]

 

 

Yeah, I bricked it but the boot loader works. Even if it didn't I may be able to bring it back from the dead. I was wondering last night why it would work in 7 but not 8/8.1/10? Something to do with a USB port change or was it a firmware bug?

 

Apparently, Microsoft has changed how they poll/communicate to MSD - mass storage devices starting in Windows 8.

 

https://mcuoneclipse...ndows_8_and_10/

 

Hopefully your KL25Z isn't actually bricked.  I haven't seen one actually damaged by attempting to update the boot loader from Win 8/10 - the boot loader update just seems to harmlessly fail in every case I've seen.  If it's continuing to appear as a thumb drive on the Windows desktop when you unplug it and plug it back in, it's definitely not bricked.

 

My understanding agrees with what you found, that the problem has to do with extra writes that Windows 8/10 is doing when you connect the drive.  The old version of the boot loader mistakes these writes as a binary file download, so they prevent a subsequent actual file download from being properly recognized.  It's entirely plausible that the extra writes are solely related to volume indexing, but this is the first time I've seen anyone claim to know the actual details.  Up to now the most detailed description I've seen is the tech notes from the Freescale engineers where they say that extra writes are occurring but offer no details about the nature of the extra writes, and they also didn't have any suggested workaround.

 

If you (or anyone else) test out that workaround you referenced, please let me know if it goes for you.  If I can get some independent confirmation that it works, I'll include the advice in the config tool instructions.  It would be fantastic to have a Windows 8/10 workaround, but I'm hesitant to include this procedure without some independent confirmation that it works repeatably.  The author of the blog posting didn't sound all that confident, and it doesn't look like he tested it more than once, so I think there's a good chance there could be other variables.

 

MJR,

 

I tried it on Windows 10 verifying everything twice and it would not update after setting the disable bit in the registry. I restarted and shutdown but it still wouldn't work. I then plugged it into an ancient HP Pavilion laptop (OMG it was slow!) running XP and everything flashed correctly and your Pinscape software installed correctly. It is not in a cab yet so I stopped there. Latest Bootloader is v1.11 and Storage/Debug app is v1.18.

 

I was hoping!

 

Thanks,

 

Harry

 

Edited by hlr53, 10 August 2016 - 10:35 PM.

[mjr]

 

I tried it on Windows 10 verifying everything twice and it would not update after setting the disable bit in the registry. I restarted and shutdown but it still wouldn't work. I then plugged it into an ancient HP Pavilion laptop (OMG it was slow!) running XP and everything flashed correctly and your Pinscape software installed correctly. It is not in a cab yet so I stopped there. Latest Bootloader is v1.11 and Storage/Debug app is v1.18.

 

I was hoping!

 

Well, it's a good data point that you tried the registry trick and it didn't work.  For now, I'll keep the advice as it is that you really need Win 7 or earlier, since that's definitely a reliable solution, even though it's getting increasingly difficult to find these old machines as time goes on.

 

Maybe Freescale should solve this by including an old XP machine from eBay with every KL25Z they sell.  Those must be dirt cheap at this point.  

[Pete248]

Well, as it seems to be a software problem and not a hardware problem, wouldn't it be an easier solution to just run Windows from a Virtual Machine and update the bootloader from there.

 

Working mainly on MacIntosh I always have a bunch of Windows VMWare Fusion VMs (XP, 7, 10) sitting on my hard drive. Switching to another Windows system is as easy as starting an app.

Edited by Pete248, 13 August 2016 - 11:58 AM.